Opinion Butcher

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Schulzenfest said:
I don't think you know what the word 'upside' means. Either that or you didn't watch us play in the last month of 2011 (can't say I'd blame you for that though).

Butcher most certainly has significant upside. It remains to be seen whether he'll actually reach it, but saying that he doesn't have it whatsoever is moronic.
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yep, the kid can play but he has problems with his body and his mind.

he needs a specialist coach if he is to overcome both problems
 

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Would like to keep him and try to get a full pre-season into him. He needs confidence.
From his 2nd AFL game 2011, if you can't watch all of it, check out goal 3 from 1.16.

 
Butcher is a 21yo tall who has been smashed with injury over his career.

Why the ****ing **** would we be delisting.or trading him on the eve of his first full preseason (and under Burgess no less) since being drafted.

If some of the people on here were in charge of recruiting we'd be the next Melbourne or early 2000s Freo, trading away our talented kids for peanuts just as they are about to come good.

We've all seen what Butcher can do when fit and confident. Let's get him fit and confident before we chuck him in the bin.
 
RangaInTeal said:
HE IS 21! I'LL JUDGE WHEN HE IS 24!!!!!!!!
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yep, big guys can take longer. How many people called for Lobbe's and Redden's head. It wouldn't surprise me if people wanted to trade and de-list Tredders in his early days.
 
Dobie G said:
Exactly, hmmmmm..... if we hung onto Giles?
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Giles had a good year. I probably would prefer him in our squad over renouf

I certainly prefer Butcher in our squad over DStew. Not to mention, if Butch fails to come on as a KPF, with his athletic build he could be bulked up for the mobile second ruck.
 
Id trade butcher for Lycett. both are promising chf's that haven't shown much yet..I would rather work with Lycett as he has better technique...but West Coast might like their chances with butcher..
 
Butcher for Lycett would be trading away more potential for zero increase in performance.

Butcher will come good. He needs a clean preseason and some confidence. We've seen the talent, we've seen him kick goals. Once that happens I'll be bumping this thread mercilessly.
 

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Butcher turned 22 in July this year. Tredders turned 22 at Christmas 2000. Westhoff turned 22 in October 2008 so he had 2 preseasons and a season and half of AFL experience under his belt.

At this stage, Butcher is going to be more of a Westhoff than a Tredrea. His hip issues means he wont be able to bulk up to 100-105kg gorilla to become that big bulky power forward who does what Tredders did or what Cloke and Franklin do these days.

He needs to stay healthy before and during all of the preseason so he can hit rd 1 next year the fittest and healthiest he has ever been. Then we will find out how good he really is.
 
To be honest....lost a lot of faith in Butcher this year
Have seen every Maggies game he played in and the Power ones and he has been a huge disappointment
His body language is woeful and his skills have declined
He would struggle to keep his spot at SANFL and based on what I have seen should be playing reserves or country

Wasting time and resources trying to retrain Butch as he just can't kick

I'm thinking a trade if any one is at all interested
 
Butcher can be a fantastic mark when his confidence is up, but equally he has great agility, pace and ability to pounce on a ground level ball for a guy who is 197cm. You want him strong but not too bulky to maximise his athleticism. Burgess will sort him out.
 
El_Scorcho said:
Butcher for Lycett would be trading away more potential for zero increase in performance.

Butcher will come good. He needs a clean preseason and some confidence. We've seen the talent, we've seen him kick goals. Once that happens I'll be bumping this thread mercilessly.
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Lycett has all the potential Butcher has..plus Lycett is bigger and has a good kick.
 
Ford Fairlane said:
Butcher can be a fantastic mark when his confidence is up, but equally he has great agility, pace and ability to pounce on a ground level ball for a guy who is 197cm. You want him strong but not too bulky to maximise his athleticism. Burgess will sort him out.
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Yes he can be a good mark but he is at best a 30% goal accuracy so for mine he is not an AFL level skilled player
Burgo will not fix his kicking...he is not a skills coach
Need Hodges/Tredrea or maybe a Mathew Lloyd to work with him
 
BIG DADDY said:
Yes he can be a good mark but he is at best a 30% goal accuracy so for mine he is not an AFL level skilled player
Burgo will not fix his kicking...he is not a skills coach
Need Hodges/Tredrea or maybe a Mathew Lloyd to work with him
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Get his body right and confidence will come. Hinkley said no one works harder on his kicking so he has to get confident in the match situation. He will only do that by playing game after game. Look at simple set shots missed by Colquhoun, Westhoff and Schulz to see how the pressure of game day can get to players.
 
Ford Fairlane said:
Butcher can be a fantastic mark when his confidence is up, but equally he has great agility, pace and ability to pounce on a ground level ball for a guy who is 197cm. You want him strong but not too bulky to maximise his athleticism. Burgess will sort him out.
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RussellEbertHandball said:
At this stage, Butcher is going to be more of a Westhoff than a Tredrea. His hip issues means he wont be able to bulk up to 100-105kg gorilla to become that big bulky power forward who does what Tredders did or what Cloke and Franklin do these days.
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i think these are fair points

ie he's not the kind of KPF who enjoys the long bomb to stationary contest, using bulk/body to push/shove/outposition --> contested mark

he's the run around, try to make plays happen KPF

similar to under 18s



 
He needs to get stronger and do a full preseason.
It's disappointing but not surprising that he struggled to make an impact after the limited preseason he had this year.
Following that, it is just a question of confidence. He is in the best possible hands with Hinkley and Burgess but could do with intense work with Tredders or Hodges.
No way would I let him go, but we must have contingency plans if he doesn't come good.

Interesting that he has struggled since his brother joined the club. Justin Westhoff was the same. All those years ago, I remember thinking that Steve Williams dropped off a bit when Choco first came back in 1990.
 
He still does all the things he did in that highlights package and does them well!

Except its the little things you don't see in this package that is lacking now days, urgency off the pack to be the lead up CHF, the laconic mehh moments, the second third fourth efforts!
 
We will know exactly where Butch fits in long term after trade period. Who we trade/draft this year will decide Butchs fate. It will be a genuine indication on what/where the club thinks Butch fits in long term. it wont be hard to read the fine print.
 
itisnt2hard said:
We will know exactly where Butch fits in long term after trade period. Who we trade/draft this year will decide Butchs fate. It will be a genuine indication on what/where the club thinks Butch fits in long term. it wont be hard to read the fine print.
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We have Jay Schulz (28) Justin Westhoff (27) who arguably is a floater or utility, John Butcher (22) and Mason Shaw (19) heaven forbid if Cam McCarthy is available we take him... Butcher is done for, Shaw is shit, were doomed...
 
I may be this guys biggest critic, but it don't mean I want to see him fail. I want him winning the Coleman. I want to be so damn wrong about this guy that I have to eat my shirts and show on YouTube.

I'm just not confident that will ever happen.

It's like some shares I used to own. At first I thought I was gonna double my money, and in the first month I actually could have sold at a handsome profit. But I didn't, I wanted the double. After a while, cracks started appearing, but promises were still being made. At this point I was hopeful of just gettin back to that previous handsome profit stage. Then within weeks of each other the price of gold tumbled and a dam wall collapsed, after this I really just wanted my money back. In the end I sold at a massive loss.

Right now, I'd just love to get money back with butcher.
 
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