Opinion Butcher

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Butcher will come good and will stay.

Shaw definitely on the right path. May be a bit late to get a game this year.

Harvey... maybe another year.

I am surprised with Ken. He is the coach and I defer to his and his team's view, but not bringing in a tall forward (especially since Westhoff is spending time in the back lines covering Trengove and in ruck, and we get exposed) for Trengove lacks imagination.

God forbid, what is he going to do if Schultz needs a rest or can't play a week. Bring in Amon because he is performing. Defies belief.

At least playing a tall gets some games into him should he be needed.
 

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remember that time jake carlisle won essendon the game against bulldogs...take note ken we need another big forward playing (decoy for Schulz and westhoff)
 
Butcher has two attributes, his size and a new found desire to attack the footy. He was not always as determined in his approach to getting the ball but to his credit that aspect in his game has improved over the past couple of years. Butcher cannot kick and from what I have seen his marking skill is only fair.

This suggests to me that Butcher is not a forward and if that is the case why aren't we trying him in other positions? Surely now is the time to give Butcher a go in defence at SANFL level ? If it doesn't work out at least we will have tried and we will know what Butcher is not.

Butcher probably has twelve months left to show something more than he has but he deserves the chance to show if his game improves by running straight ahead and if he has the ability to negate an opposition tall. You never know, a couple of good performances in defence at SANFL level may do wonders for his confidence but if we do not try him in defence we will never know.
 
raptalia said:
Butcher has two attributes, his size and a new found desire to attack the footy. He was not always as determined in his approach to getting the ball but to his credit that aspect in his game has improved over the past couple of years. Butcher cannot kick and from what I have seen his marking skill is only fair.

This suggests to me that Butcher is not a forward and if that is the case why aren't we trying him in other positions? Surely now is the time to give Butcher a go in defence at SANFL level ? If it doesn't work out at least we will have tried and we will know what Butcher is not.

Butcher probably has twelve months left to show something more than he has but he deserves the chance to show if his game improves by running straight ahead and if he has the ability to negate an opposition tall. You never know, a couple of good performances in defence at SANFL level may do wonders for his confidence but if we do not try him in defence we will never know.
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can you imagine butcher kicking out from the back? the amount of turnovers would be scary lol
 
I don't know how to feel every time I see a Butcher to defence post.

He's our leading goalkicker at the Magpies, in the top 5 in the league.

He's averaging what, 2.5 contested marks a game or thereabouts? Yet, his marking skill is only fair?

His problems are confidence, knowing when to lead and the occasional set shot shank (which isn't as bad as people make it out to be, it just seems bad cos of how awkward it looks). We have nothing to gain from trying to make him a defender.
 
I'm almost at the point where I'm down with Kern's 'tough love' approach to Butcher.

There's really only two possibilities:

1. He's drawn a line through him for stuff we don't know about and will not play him this year, or
2. He sees him as a big factor in our future and expects him to perform to a standard above that of which other players are required to.

Either way, I'm drinking the Kern Kool-Aid and chilling the **** out.
 
Time is certainly ticking. He has one more year left on his current contract and needs to show more to justify an extension.


Please Shaw.....please stay
 

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Thing is if Butcher did play down back and was solid who would you drop to bring him into the side? If Bobby and Trengrove are fit we are very tall down back with Hombsch and to a lesser extent Jonas. He doesn't have much of an engine to push up the flanks and his kicking is just not good enough. No point marking it at the 50 only to put it out on the fall or down an opposition player's throat.

He will get next year but I suspect he will be moved on there after.
 
Long live PAFC said:
Thing is if Butcher did play down back and was solid who would you drop to bring him into the side? If Bobby and Trengrove are fit we are very tall down back with Hombsch and to a lesser extent Jonas. He doesn't have much of an engine to push up the flanks and his kicking is just not good enough. No point marking it at the 50 only to put it out on the fall or down an opposition player's throat.

He will get next year but I suspect he will be moved on there after.
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Well, if they somehow got injured one season, then maybe having cover would be a good idea, he will also get game time that would allow him to swing forward if necessary.

I think we should be training him up as a future Westhoff tbh.
 
There are a lot of calls out there to select Butcher but he needs some more SANFL runs on the board. Quite frankly, he has been pretty ordinary over the last month or so. We selected him last year when he wasn't in great form at SANFL level and he continued his poor form at AFL level. Yes we have lost 2 talls in defence and therefore aren't getting as much from westhoff up forward as we normally would but just because Butcher is available to be selected doesn't mean Ken should select him. Reward form.

Also i've always been amazed at the level of patience supporters have shown towards Butcher. "he will come good", "just give him time", "just needs to get over his injuries". Well not me, i've pretty much already half drawn a line through him. He has been on the list for 5 years now, if he doesn't pull some huge performances out in the next few weeks at SANFL level he needs to be either traded or delisted at seasons end.
 
Willsy10 said:
There are a lot of calls out there to select Butcher but he needs some more SANFL runs on the board. Quite frankly, he has been pretty ordinary over the last month or so. We selected him last year when he wasn't in great form at SANFL level and he continued his poor form at AFL level. Yes we have lost 2 talls in defence and therefore aren't getting as much from westhoff up forward as we normally would but just because Butcher is available to be selected doesn't mean Ken should select him. Reward form.
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Yep, reward form by giving Kane Mitchell a month long run where he is among the worst few players on the ground in each game. Ignore structure and reward form. If the 22 players on your list in the best form are all sub 185cm, pick them all as form is the only reason you'd pick any player ever.

If we are rewarding form and form alone for selection, why did Renouf get picked when Lobbe missed a game? It wasn't for structural reasons was it?!?!?!?! Oh my god!

Almost every player getting a regular game for our club has played a game this season worse than the one Butcher did when he got dropped. Kane Mitchell played about 4 of them in a row. Butcher then went down to the SANFL and kicked two bags of 5 in three weeks, and is still top 5 in the Ken Farmer.

Also i've always been amazed at the level of patience supporters have shown towards Butcher. "he will come good", "just give him time", "just needs to get over his injuries". Well not me, i've pretty much already half drawn a line through him. He has been on the list for 5 years now, if he doesn't pull some huge performances out in the next few weeks at SANFL level he needs to be either traded or delisted at seasons end.
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Tom Hawkins, Jay Schulz, Justin Westhoff, Travis Cloke, Kurt Tippett, Josh Kennedy and many, many more very effective forwards were struggling big time at the same level of experience that Butcher is at and were consistently given games to develop, supported, and came good.

He's also our only reserve KPF with any AFL experience (and the only one who runs both ways) and he is the one who takes the best defender in the SANFL every week. Delisting or trading him would be one of the stupidest list management moves we've made since we resigned Matt Westhoff for 2 years.
 
If he goes to the doggies IF, I want a young Fletcher Roberts and a second round pick. Doubt it though my money is on North. Thats if he is on the table of course.
 
Willsy10 said:
There are a lot of calls out there to select Butcher but he needs some more SANFL runs on the board. Quite frankly, he has been pretty ordinary over the last month or so. We selected him last year when he wasn't in great form at SANFL level and he continued his poor form at AFL level. Yes we have lost 2 talls in defence and therefore aren't getting as much from westhoff up forward as we normally would but just because Butcher is available to be selected doesn't mean Ken should select him. Reward form.

Also i've always been amazed at the level of patience supporters have shown towards Butcher. "he will come good", "just give him time", "just needs to get over his injuries". Well not me, i've pretty much already half drawn a line through him. He has been on the list for 5 years now, if he doesn't pull some huge performances out in the next few weeks at SANFL level he needs to be either traded or delisted at seasons end.
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I suspect it's psychological. The coaches want him to be ultra-confident before giving him an extended run. To be honest, I think he needs it. He looks so down at times lining up for goals it's like watching someone having a total breakdown.
 
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