Pendlebury would be up there for the worst.
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Can a Norm Smith Medal's worth be measured by the margin of the game?
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I honestly thought Steele had it in the bag.
Steele Sidebottom.
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He was great to watch early on in his career. He was a nuggety, explosive, high-flying, hard-at-it, back pocket player. He played with a lot of dash, loved going for a run and taking a few bounces. Not the most consistent guy. More of a burst player. He'd flash in and out of the game.
Even though it was a draw, and of course there is the result of the week after, Lenny's Drawn GF Normie, is far and away better than Pendlebury.
Lenny stood up tall on the real big day and dragged his team out of a hole in the last quarter with a huge goal, and could've kicked the winner with a kinder bounce, where on the other hand Pendlebury was just picked out of the hat. But, people will remember him over Lenny because he played in the winning team. Kind of an injustice really.
Lenny stood up tall on the real big day and dragged his team out of a hole in the last quarter with a huge goal, and could've kicked the winner with a kinder bounce, where on the other hand Pendlebury was just picked out of the hat. But, people will remember him over Lenny because he played in the winning team. Kind of an injustice really.
Lenny's first game was much better than Pendlebury's. However, Lenny suffered the same issue in that he was not the stand-out player on the ground. It was him and BG. There was only a small margin between them.
The next week was a pretty awesome spread of Collingwood players so there was really no stand-out. Don't think you can say "picked out of the hat". Pendlebury was good that day.
Gilbo19
Team Captain
To answer the original question... No.
A Norm Smith Medal is a Norm Smith Medal regardless of the final score, also having one in the original match and the replay makes those medals no less valuable either IMHO. Lenny and Pendles medals are both the equal of Simon Black's or Gary Ablett's.
Also on some winners who have been mentioned...
Nathan Buckley's was a shocker, I was at the game and I can't remember off the top of my head (all the Brisbane GF's blur into one) who I thought was better but i think it may have been Voss.
Simon Black was inspirational, fantastic performance.
Andrew McLeod was a bit lucky in 1997 for me, I thought Jarman was better from the crows and Robert Harvey and Austin Jones gave him a good run from the saints.
Chapman was the game breaker in 2009 but IMO it simply had to go to Jimmy Bartel, Lenny Hayes was clearly best on ground in the first half and then Jimmy toweled him up in the second half, honourable mention has to go to Harry Taylor, Chapman third best followed by a very distant Jason Gram. Despite popular belief Luke Ball was ordinary on the day, his stat per minute ratio disguise the face that he simply couldn't cover enough ground.
Lenny Hayes was a deserving winner in 2010, kept us in it when the going was tough and almost snatched the win in the dying moments, Goddard was fantastic and you couldn't hold it against either of the players if they won. I can't think of another year where there have been two performances from the same team as memorable as those. (Bias could obviously be a factor.)
As for the replay I think every man and his dog knew that Pendlebury was going to win it, he was very smooth and consistent the whole game, he seemed to just slowly and steadily rack up possessions and use them well... however i thought Sidebottom was the best on the day, I think if he had a few more years in the system he would have won it, I honestly believe his relatively low profile was what held him back that day. Heath Shaw also must have come into the considerations, it was his smother on Roo that broke the saints spirits early, as soon as that ball went through for a point the saints were never a chance.
A Norm Smith Medal is a Norm Smith Medal regardless of the final score, also having one in the original match and the replay makes those medals no less valuable either IMHO. Lenny and Pendles medals are both the equal of Simon Black's or Gary Ablett's.
Also on some winners who have been mentioned...
Nathan Buckley's was a shocker, I was at the game and I can't remember off the top of my head (all the Brisbane GF's blur into one) who I thought was better but i think it may have been Voss.
Simon Black was inspirational, fantastic performance.
Andrew McLeod was a bit lucky in 1997 for me, I thought Jarman was better from the crows and Robert Harvey and Austin Jones gave him a good run from the saints.
Chapman was the game breaker in 2009 but IMO it simply had to go to Jimmy Bartel, Lenny Hayes was clearly best on ground in the first half and then Jimmy toweled him up in the second half, honourable mention has to go to Harry Taylor, Chapman third best followed by a very distant Jason Gram. Despite popular belief Luke Ball was ordinary on the day, his stat per minute ratio disguise the face that he simply couldn't cover enough ground.
Lenny Hayes was a deserving winner in 2010, kept us in it when the going was tough and almost snatched the win in the dying moments, Goddard was fantastic and you couldn't hold it against either of the players if they won. I can't think of another year where there have been two performances from the same team as memorable as those. (Bias could obviously be a factor.)
As for the replay I think every man and his dog knew that Pendlebury was going to win it, he was very smooth and consistent the whole game, he seemed to just slowly and steadily rack up possessions and use them well... however i thought Sidebottom was the best on the day, I think if he had a few more years in the system he would have won it, I honestly believe his relatively low profile was what held him back that day. Heath Shaw also must have come into the considerations, it was his smother on Roo that broke the saints spirits early, as soon as that ball went through for a point the saints were never a chance.
Black and Aker in 2003. Both seemed to have the ball on a string. Complimented each other amazingly.
Jack2Johnston
All Australian
Each game needs to be considered in Isolation.
It's not often there is an "undeserving" Norm smith, as they have all invariably had good games, just sometimes there is a better option.
I think Judd 05 is an example of this, it's not like he played bad and got a Norm Smith, he played a good game in a losing team, would argue he wasn't BOG though.
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If they ever give Norm Smith's for up and unders to nobody in particular, Gram has it in the bag.
They do give them for loose man in defence/3rd man up in marking contests though, so keep an eye out.
sr36
TheBrownDog
Writing the phrase 'bias aside' doesn't remove the bias. Ablett was BOG by a mile. Hodge did a couple of inspirational courageous things, but essentially got a lot of uncontested possessions and butchered the ball early.
To be honest, I'm not sure you're watching the right game. My take on his and Fosdike's game after re-watching:
Judd’s 2005 GF:
14 kicks – 4 effective; 4 to contest; 2 to advantage but dropped; 2 effective but shank; 2 ineffective shanks
16 handballs – 10 effective; 4 to contest; 1 ineffective; 1 for touch
12 clearances
1 goal assist
Fosdike’s 2005 GF:
16 kicks – 2 effective; 8 to contest; 2 to advantage but dropped; 1 effective but shank; 3 ineffective shanks
10 handballs - 9 effective; 1 to contest; 0 ineffective
4 clearances
0 goal assists
FYI, this is merely a system I've made up to try and get a reasonably accurate reading on disposal efficiency.
My votes would go:
5. C. Judd (WCE) - Had four consistently brilliant quarters and was really the spark on a gritty day of footy, particularly in the first half. Was ultra-clean in the packs and had 12 emphatic clearances. Had Crouch (80%), Williams (10%) and Ablett (10%) hanging off him at nearly every stoppage and still managed to find huge amounts of space. Was required to kick to a few contests as all the forwards (bar Hall) were terrible and the Gardiner/Hansen/Gasper forward line was especially inept. On three occasions Judd burst away from a stoppage and kicked the ball but it fell short of its intended target. This should be attributed to the aggresive running of the champ. On two of these occasions Judd's kicks were saved by Sampi with clean pick-ups. The rest of Judd's disposals were quality touches. Also, West Coast really struggled when Judd was resting up in the forward line.
4. A. Buchanan (Syd) - An uber-consistent game for Buchanan running along through the midfield and forward really set up some scoring plays for the Swans. While he may not have got as many touches as other players his nineteen touches were fantastic. At times he'd go missing in patches but he had a great last quarter and kicked the winning goal.
3. N. Fosdike (Syd) - Many would have Fosdike as the Norm Smith medallist and while he was superb there were some queries on his game. For instance, Fosdike seemed to kick to a lot of contests despite receiving a large amount of his ball free of congestion. At times he seemed to have no opponent but still did not hurt West Coast as much as he could have. Selwood tagged him heavily from the middle of the third quarter.
2. D. Banfield (WCE) - Interesting choice this, yet Banfield played an incredible job of shutting down the potential match-winner Nick Davis. Davis only had eight touches and none were of note, whereas Banfield had sixteen of his own. At the end of the game when the Wirrpanda kick-in was failing West Coast Banfield was required to hold steady and send the ball into play.
1. L. Barry (Syd) - Not only did Barry take the epic saving mark but he had a strong defender's game. Even taking into account the ineptness of his opposition tall forwards Barry was instrumental in Sydney's win through-out the afternoon. Although some of his acting for frees was pretty uninspiring.
sr36
TheBrownDog
I stood to win a fair bit of money on Buchanan, so I was disappointed by the decision. Then again, in retrospect, I'm glad that Judd is a norm smith medallist and Buchanan isn't.
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If you're the best player on the day (or throughout the year, in the case of the Brownlow Medal), it shouldn't detract from the achievement if the rest of your career doesn't live up to those same high standards.
I think Jarman deserved it in 1997...He single handedly beat us off his own boot...I still have nightmares of that :/
Jade
Smug lives here.
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Buckley's was not a great choice.
I believe (I don't know as fact) that the voting process changed after this to make sure the voters got to see the entirety of the game.
Voss was clearly best on ground.
Having said that, no, Norm Smith's cannot be measured by margin.
It is just as easy to argue that a great player in a GF MADE the margin as it is to say a player in a close one won the game.
I believe (I don't know as fact) that the voting process changed after this to make sure the voters got to see the entirety of the game.
Voss was clearly best on ground.
Having said that, no, Norm Smith's cannot be measured by margin.
It is just as easy to argue that a great player in a GF MADE the margin as it is to say a player in a close one won the game.
Please - Macca dominated for four quarters in a winning side, including a half when the team was outplayed. His move into the middle in the second half helped turn the game. Jars played one of the all-time great GF final quarters but Macca was the clear Normie winner.
98 was more dubious but he played a direct role in roughly eight of our goals, plus was solid across four quarters once again.
Greg Williams 1995 - 31 touches and kicked 5.3
To get 30+ touches in a GF
To kick 5+ goals in a GF
To do both
in 99 Peter Bell had 31 touches kicked 4 goals and got nothing... i think someone was robbed...
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This, definitely this.
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haha lulz
Hodge is the reason why Hawthorn won the game. Geelong had more inside 50's. Hodge repelled 17 ALONE, and kicked a goal to boot.
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How horrible were those entries? 10 of those probaby came from when Geelong kicked it on top of Stokes head perfectly for Hodge to luck them.
He was playing loose and floating 3rd man up in marking contests all day, easiest role in football, especially when the Hawthorn midfield were pressuring the entries so well.
Standing by for the 'get over it, Hodge/Rioli/Dew beat Geelong singlehandedly' comments.
because 10 of those entries were horrible, hodge should have just let them go and done his job? stupid call.
He was playing as a floating defender, with and injury and had to go back with the flight on multiple occasions. He was a key factor in his side winning the flag.
impacted the game more than ablett.
Dalphonso
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First one maybe but Darren Jarman was close.
Second one should have gone to Peter Caven who blanketed Carey.
candiehappy
In the guts
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what about Paul Dear in '91? Mainly because IMO he was only an average player, but then pulled a huge game out of his arse. Look at most of the names being discussed and they were in the games elite at the time, but not him.
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