Might have to give Darwin an extra game so they're a home base.
Could do a territories team! In Canberra during the start and end when it's the wet season, then in Darwin for the middle of winter to avoid our cold. Perfect weather all season!
Expansion Canberra
- Thread starter Johnny Bananas
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Might have to give Darwin an extra game so they're a home base.
Could do a territories team! In Canberra during the start and end when it's the wet season, then in Darwin for the middle of winter to avoid our cold. Perfect weather all season!
And you'd end up with no one in any of those cities that give a shit. This idea that you can have a nomad team splitting games between a bunch of places that have no common denominator and getting everyone's support is pure fantasy. Best case scenario you could have a Territory team based out of Darwin playing 1-2 games in Alice (and maybe 1 in NQ) or have a NQ team based in Cairns playing 1-2 games in Townsville (and maybe 1 in the NT). But in reality - as you say - both regions are simply too small.
BTW Alice Springs doesn't have a wet season, and in any case it's highest rainfall months are in Summer (and not much rain even falls then). But the reality is it's a tiny town with not much going for it when it comes to hosting AFL games. I don't really understand why the AFL does it every year.
Sorry, I meant that's why Alice would be good for those games. They'd get the early and late games to avoid the northern cities' wet seasons.
But I agree it's a pipe dream. Outside of Tasmania, Canberra, and possibly Auckland, there are no new areas (outside of already establish metro markets) that could sustain a team.
I've written an article for The Roar regarding why Canberra deserves a team:
Capital idea for AFL expansion
While Tasmania continues to be overlooked for an AFL club, Canberra continues to be overlooked as the city seen to be overlooked. When Tasmania…
www.theroar.com.au
- Sep 22, 2011
- 42,174
- 92,192
- AFL Club
- Essendon
As others have said you could look at a club basically within the ACT, the Murray and the Murrumbidgee. So ACT - Southern NSW - Northern Vic.
ACT 435k
Queanbeyan 35k
Albury Wodonga 95k
Wangaratta 20k
Shepparton - Mooroopna 45k
Echuca-Moama 21k
Yarrawonga - Mulwala 10k
Swan Hill 11k
Mildura 52k
Griffith 20k
Wagga Wagga 55k
You're starting to get up near a million people in that area. It's a big area and would be more akin to a state team, but it's all currently unrepresented and is a huge, footy-rich area.
Reckon you'd want to play a game in Albury, Shepparton, Mildura and Wagga. Perhaps two in Albury. The rest in Canberra.
NFI what you'd call it! The Wanderers probably works!
ACT 435k
Queanbeyan 35k
Albury Wodonga 95k
Wangaratta 20k
Shepparton - Mooroopna 45k
Echuca-Moama 21k
Yarrawonga - Mulwala 10k
Swan Hill 11k
Mildura 52k
Griffith 20k
Wagga Wagga 55k
You're starting to get up near a million people in that area. It's a big area and would be more akin to a state team, but it's all currently unrepresented and is a huge, footy-rich area.
Reckon you'd want to play a game in Albury, Shepparton, Mildura and Wagga. Perhaps two in Albury. The rest in Canberra.
NFI what you'd call it! The Wanderers probably works!
- Thread starter
- #56
Why would you play games in towns of 40-50k people unless the government were offering a fat stack of cash to do so? Canberra and Albury are the only two towns on that list that are actually viable for regular games without huge incentives. They both have a reasonable population and Albury has a stadium that the government have already sunk millions into developing.
- Thread starter
- #57
Good article. Remains to be seen whether GWS find enough success in Sydney to not need Canberra anymore and whether the government finds the political will to fund a stadium (re)development. A lot of stars have to align for it.I've written an article for The Roar regarding why Canberra deserves a team:
Capital idea for AFL expansion
While Tasmania continues to be overlooked for an AFL club, Canberra continues to be overlooked as the city seen to be overlooked. When Tasmania…www.theroar.com.au
Bjo187
Premiership Player
- Apr 30, 2020
- 4,062
- 5,750
- AFL Club
- Essendon
Good article i definitely like the Canberra riverina option it would work well. I would prefer two relocated melbourne teams to keep the competition at 18 teams. To be honest gws and gold coast would have been better as relocated clubs to help with fan bases, but canberra and tassie are definitely easier to stomach if i'm a relocated supporter of a melbourne club. Also i would prefer my club relocated than merged, it guarantees the long term survival of the club and these days all games are on tv anyway. Plus you still get to see your team about 6x a year playing in melbourne anyway.
- Sep 22, 2011
- 42,174
- 92,192
- AFL Club
- Essendon
Well yeah, if you take them all in isolation. We'd be talking about a regional club. You probably need to look at an area within 90mins to get an idea - that's a fair capture and travel time.
It's about capturing talent too. If you have academy access to the whole Riverina and Murray area, playing one game a year in further-flung smaller towns isn't a bad price to pay for further support.
- Apr 24, 2018
- 3,341
- 2,678
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
Our state league is far from decent these days mate the AFL have completely screwed it since they took over running it Robert auld sure did a number on it can see why he was promoted to afl house
I'd probably add Wagga to that list. The Raiders have also started playing annual games there.
Wagga and Albury are only 90 mins apart (nothing for regional commuters), so you'd imagine most fans in each city would travel to the other. You've got 150k people within a drive of both stadiums, so you could package both games as a Riverina Package.
The stadium is the bigger issue for me.
GWS will get there eventually, and they've got other options if they still want a second home (one or two games in Newcastle?).
But the planning for the stadium needs a lot of lead time. Especially if we're to be included in any new stadium plans.
However, 99.5% of the fans in the towns (and the surrounding areas) you named like Wangaratta, Shepparton, Echuca, Yarrawonga and Swan Hill aren't going to change who they support just so they can get access to one game of football a year for a club based out of the ACT to make it viable. There would be next to no support for this club in these towns and Melbourne would still be closer in driving time and better connected by train for most of these towns than Canberra would be which can't be ignored when considering something like fan outreach for a new club into these areas to then attend games elsewhere pointless.
The AFL can still capture the same amount of talent by providing these places with access to regular pre-season matches and if required the AFL can push a Melbourne club to play a game or two out of one or more of the towns (like the Bulldogs do with Ballarat) if they thought talent levels from these areas was becoming an issue that needed fixing.
- Thread starter
- #64
The council put money into upgrading the RL ground as a precondition for that deal to happen. You'd think the Australian Rules ground would need a refurbishment before being suitable for premiership matches too.
- May 3, 2007
- 39,429
- 23,044
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Sounds about right. You could only imagine if Tasmania had got an AFL side in the mid to late 1990s or even in that early 2000s during the time the non Vic teams were winning flags in that 2001-06 era.Our state league is far from decent these days mate the AFL have completely screwed it since they took over running it Robert auld sure did a number on it can see why he was promoted to afl house
I know Tassie gets screwed over by the AFL for many things. But reading your posts about their treatment to the local grass roots of the state, the AFL should be ashamed about it
- Apr 20, 2006
- 9,721
- 13,198
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Melbourne is as close to Albury as Canberra so I don’t know why anyone there would gravitate to a club because they play one game a year there when they have had a lifetime of affiliation with Melbourne clubs. Wagga you have a much better chance.
It looks like there are some plans for Robertson Oval, but I can't find much detail. There's a little bit from about page 24 in the below though.
Bolton Park Master Plan
Read Bolton Park Master Plan by Wagga Wagga City Council on Issuu and browse thousands of other publications on our platform. Start here!
I'm not sure if the plans would be adequate for regular season matches, but they already hosted 6500 for a preseason match in 2020. You'd assume any regular season commitment would ensure better facilities again.
It would be similar to the Giants in Canberra at the moment. You have a lot of Giants members, but many only support them as a second team. That was especially the case at the beginning for the 6000 foundation members. I expect it would be the same to start with in Albury. It'd more be the younger generation that sees the same team every year where we might get some primary supporters eventually.
I think (I can't find the articles so I'm going off anecdotes) we had to guarantee a certain number of foundation members to help secure games in Canberra. We could ensure there's 500-1000 AW members before we commit to taking a game there.
AW is the same driving distance from either Canberra or Melbourne, but Melbourne teams are never going to pay them attention when you've got the larger cities of Bendigo and Ballarat closer.
Bjo187
Premiership Player
- Apr 30, 2020
- 4,062
- 5,750
- AFL Club
- Essendon
Exactly and it's why you name the team canberra riverina, it automatically aligns all the people living in those areas to the club. Nice sounding name too.
Maybe, but you could have said the same about Canberra and the Giants in the first place. They've done a brilliant job in finding supporters in an area with little to no relationship to the area they actually represent (i.e Western Sydney). For that reason, I reckon 99.5% is probably a bit of an overstatement. People might not completely switch teams, but I reckon you'd get a lot supporting a new team if they put the effort in to attach themselves to the region. Although probably not as far as Wangaratta though, I suspect anything on the Victorian side of the border is probably too far away.
But the problem with playing home games in small regional venues is not just the lack of reserved seating and the like, but the lack of corporate facilities and corporate dollars. People underestimate just how important that is in sustaining an AFL club. The bulk of corporate dollars in the region would be in Canberra, with a little bit in Albury. Maybe an 8-3 games split, but you couldn't afford to have too many games in places like Mildura or even Wagga unless there are large government incentives to play there and make up that difference.
What would everybody’s thoughts be on a standalone AFLW team for Canberra?
After Essendon, Hawthorn, Port and Sydney join, of course.
The ACT government currently pays GWS $2.3 million a year. With that $2.3m commitment, we could have our own AFLW team for a fraction of that.
In 2018, Melbourne spent $1.042m on their women’s program (including player payments, program costs and running a VFLW team). Of that $1.042m, Melbourne recouped $886k in AFLW revenue (mostly AFL funding payments and AFLW-specific sponsorships). If a Canberra team could replicate that sponsorship, we could have a team for less than $200k a year. And a good stepping stone to an AFLM team down the track.
A large proportion of $2.3m from the ACT government covers player development. My estimate would be just under $1m. The Giants still received $1.15m in 2020 when they didn’t play a game here, but some of that would still be to have Canberra on the back of their guernseys.
If a standalone AFLW team received the $2.3m, they could take on the player pathways proportion (men’s and women’s). Our men would still be in GWS’ zone, so they would still benefit from our men’s development. We would then have $1.3m to spend on an AFLW and VFLW program. For comparison, the Crows were the only other team (that I could find) with government (SA and NT) sponsorship and they received $350k in 2017, so Canberra would be one of the best-funded AFLW teams by far.
GWS’ men could still play here. A current game fee seems to be $400k per game, so there could still be enough left over for one game. GWS would still get a presence, slight funding, but get to slowly transition to a more full-time Sydney presence.
After Essendon, Hawthorn, Port and Sydney join, of course.
The ACT government currently pays GWS $2.3 million a year. With that $2.3m commitment, we could have our own AFLW team for a fraction of that.
In 2018, Melbourne spent $1.042m on their women’s program (including player payments, program costs and running a VFLW team). Of that $1.042m, Melbourne recouped $886k in AFLW revenue (mostly AFL funding payments and AFLW-specific sponsorships). If a Canberra team could replicate that sponsorship, we could have a team for less than $200k a year. And a good stepping stone to an AFLM team down the track.
A large proportion of $2.3m from the ACT government covers player development. My estimate would be just under $1m. The Giants still received $1.15m in 2020 when they didn’t play a game here, but some of that would still be to have Canberra on the back of their guernseys.
If a standalone AFLW team received the $2.3m, they could take on the player pathways proportion (men’s and women’s). Our men would still be in GWS’ zone, so they would still benefit from our men’s development. We would then have $1.3m to spend on an AFLW and VFLW program. For comparison, the Crows were the only other team (that I could find) with government (SA and NT) sponsorship and they received $350k in 2017, so Canberra would be one of the best-funded AFLW teams by far.
GWS’ men could still play here. A current game fee seems to be $400k per game, so there could still be enough left over for one game. GWS would still get a presence, slight funding, but get to slowly transition to a more full-time Sydney presence.
- Thread starter
- #73
Just saying, a W-League team wasn't a stepping stone to Canberra getting an A-League team.
You're right, it wasn't, or at least isn't yet. But it's meant a lot of the infrastructure is already there. They also have a Y-League (men's youth) since 2017. And I think the success of Canberra United has elevated Canberra in the A-League expansion conversation. I always hear they're a lifeboat if the Pheonix sink.
But at the end of the day, if an AFLM team is incredibly far down the track, I'd be happy with solely an AFLW team. Especially as the season gets longer. Sure, I'd like both, but one is better than neither.
Lavington has just been refurbished, and they are pushing for AFL games, but it is the middle of nowhere and Albury would have been better off making Albury Sports Ground (next to the CBD) the main stadium. They could draw 20K to AFL games. Close enough for people to drive up from Melbourne and a perfect secondary home city for a Canberra team. Tas 2025. Canberra next media deal 2031.
