Expansion Canberra

[Bjo187]

For all the talk of the rectangle codes in Canberra wanting a new stadium, they don’t really fill the 25,000 capacity Bruce Stadium they have now.

GIO Stadium (Canberra Stadium) | Austadiums

Information about GIO Stadium (Canberra Stadium) in Canberra including venue layout, history, records, events, map, tickets, directions and accommodation.

www.austadiums.com

The NRL generally average below 60% each year.

Rugby League Tables / Attendances /Bruce

Rugby League Tables - NRL Stats & Tables

afltables.com

View attachment 2070720

Compare that to the AFL at the 15,000 capacity Manuka Oval.

Manuka Oval | Austadiums

Information about Manuka Oval in Canberra including venue layout, history, records, events, map, tickets, directions and accommodation.

www.austadiums.com

Excluding Covid years GWS have been averaging over 70% full including several years over 80%.

AFL Tables - Crowds - Manuka Oval

View attachment 2070731

It's ridiculous isn't it, when you look at all the government funding for nrl stadiums and most of them sit under 50 percent full most of the time.

Even when you look at Parramatta stadium, Sydney football stadium and the Olympic stadium, they must all leak money. The former two are pretty new too and every time I see them on tv, there is barely anyone there.

On top of that, the nrl are in the background blocking the building of oval stadia like the Brisbane Olympic stadium, despite the lions selling out 90 percent of their games.

 

[Giant YoYo]

Footy in Canberra turns 100 - AFL NSW / ACT

Manuka Oval was abuzz on Saturday, 3 August 2024 to celebrate the centenary of football in Canberra. Around 150 members of the Canberra community came together for an evening of reflection, celebration and storytelling. Speakers at the event included women’s…Read more ›

aflnswact.com.au

Footy in Canberra turns 100​

Manuka Oval was abuzz on Saturday, 3 August 2024 to celebrate the centenary of football in Canberra.

Around 150 members of the Canberra community came together for an evening of reflection, celebration and storytelling.​

Speakers at the event included women’s football trailblazer, Debbie Lee, Mr Michael Pettersson MLA from the ACT Government, and numerous respected figures in Canberra football including: Ian Muir, Brian Quade, Mark Armstrong, Peter Taylor, Keith Miller, Dani Curcio and Nicole Bourke.

The elite AFL and AFLW competitions were represented on the evening with Emily Pease and Cam Bernasconi from the GIANTS’ AFLW team speaking, and GIANTS AFL star, Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

, and AFL umpiring great, Ray Chamberlain sharing a stage, just one day out from the GIANTS’ clash against Hawthorn at Manuka Oval.

Thank you to the AFL Canberra community for supporting the event and for your work cultivating one of the best and longest running leagues in the country.

Couple videos in link.

 

[Badger17]

For all the talk of the rectangle codes in Canberra wanting a new stadium, they don’t really fill the 25,000 capacity Bruce Stadium they have now.

GIO Stadium (Canberra Stadium) | Austadiums

Information about GIO Stadium (Canberra Stadium) in Canberra including venue layout, history, records, events, map, tickets, directions and accommodation.

www.austadiums.com

The NRL generally average below 60% each year.

Rugby League Tables / Attendances /Bruce

Rugby League Tables - NRL Stats & Tables

afltables.com

View attachment 2070720

Compare that to the AFL at the 15,000 capacity Manuka Oval.

Manuka Oval | Austadiums

Information about Manuka Oval in Canberra including venue layout, history, records, events, map, tickets, directions and accommodation.

www.austadiums.com

Excluding Covid years GWS have been averaging over 70% full including several years over 80%.

AFL Tables - Crowds - Manuka Oval

View attachment 2070731

As someone who has actually spent a lot of time in Bruce Stadium I'm going to have to come out hard in defence of the Raiders and Brumbies on this one, because the stadium itself is the single biggest factor holding their attendance numbers back. It's easily the worst value and experience a person can have attending one of the major professional codes in Australia.

It's a 50 year old converted athletics track that's largely in a state of disrepair. Because it's a converted oval with a shallow rake you're far away from the action and the sightlines, though unimpeded, are amongst the worst in the rectangular sports. Almost everything in the stadium is old and broken as well. It's got so bad that the place was leaking raw sewerage earlier in the season.

It's also designed like a giant wind tunnel, which makes it extremely uncomfortable in winter. If there's any wind, even just a light breeze, the wind chill factor can make it feel like it's 5°C+ colder than it actually is, which is a huge problem in a place like Canberra. Add on top of that the fact that only a couple thousand seats are undercover (partial cover) and it's a bleak cold experience in autumn and winter. I've been in that stadium when it's been cold enough to freeze the snot to your face (no exaggeration) multiple times, it's genuinely the coldest place I've ever been outside of the arctic circle.

Add to that that it's located right in the middle of a suburban wasteland with no entertainment, food, or accommodation within walking distance and terrible public transport links (basically non-existent), and the whole place is just a rundown dump.

Swap it for even just a no frills modern stadium and the Raiders attendance would jump by at least 3-5k, depending on the opposition, overnight. Build that new stadium in a better, more central, location with the basic amenities that are taken for granted everywhere else, and their average attendance would jump by even more than that.

 

[Seedsfan]

As someone who has actually spent a lot of time in Bruce Stadium I'm going to have to come out hard in defence of the Raiders and Brumbies on this one, because the stadium itself is the single biggest factor holding their attendance numbers back. It's easily the worst value and experience a person can have attending one of the major professional codes in Australia.

It's a 50 year old converted athletics track that's largely in a state of disrepair. Because it's a converted oval with a shallow rake you're far away from the action and the sightlines, though unimpeded, are amongst the worst in the rectangular sports. Almost everything in the stadium is old and broken as well. It's got so bad that the place was leaking raw sewerage earlier in the season.

It's also designed like a giant wind tunnel, which makes it extremely uncomfortable in winter. If there's any wind, even just a light breeze, the wind chill factor can make it feel like it's 5°C+ colder than it actually is, which is a huge problem in a place like Canberra. Add on top of that the fact that only a couple thousand seats are undercover (partial cover) and it's a bleak cold experience in autumn and winter. I've been in that stadium when it's been cold enough to freeze the snot to your face (no exaggeration) multiple times, it's genuinely the coldest place I've ever been outside of the arctic circle.

Add to that that it's located right in the middle of a suburban wasteland with no entertainment, food, or accommodation within walking distance and terrible public transport links (basically non-existent), and the whole place is just a rundown dump.

Swap it for even just a no frills modern stadium and the Raiders attendance would jump by at least 3-5k, depending on the opposition, overnight. Build that new stadium in a better, more central, location with the basic amenities that are taken for granted everywhere else, and their average attendance would jump by even more than that.

Spot on

 

[kranger]

Here is a look at individual Raiders Crowds since 2012. Only 7 crowds of the last 146 games have got over 20,000 (80% of 25,000), only 3 of which were not finals.

Rugby League Tables / Canberra / All Games

Rugby League Tables - NRL Stats & Tables

afltables.com

I do hope Canberra can get a new rectangle stadium in Civic.

But atleast with Manuka Oval getting filled up, it helps to push the case for works there. More so if they can get a Canberra BBL team and get a Melbourne AFL team playing 3-4 games there a year to increase the usage.

 

[Bjo187]

As someone who has actually spent a lot of time in Bruce Stadium I'm going to have to come out hard in defence of the Raiders and Brumbies on this one, because the stadium itself is the single biggest factor holding their attendance numbers back. It's easily the worst value and experience a person can have attending one of the major professional codes in Australia.

It's a 50 year old converted athletics track that's largely in a state of disrepair. Because it's a converted oval with a shallow rake you're far away from the action and the sightlines, though unimpeded, are amongst the worst in the rectangular sports. Almost everything in the stadium is old and broken as well. It's got so bad that the place was leaking raw sewerage earlier in the season.

It's also designed like a giant wind tunnel, which makes it extremely uncomfortable in winter. If there's any wind, even just a light breeze, the wind chill factor can make it feel like it's 5°C+ colder than it actually is, which is a huge problem in a place like Canberra. Add on top of that the fact that only a couple thousand seats are undercover (partial cover) and it's a bleak cold experience in autumn and winter. I've been in that stadium when it's been cold enough to freeze the snot to your face (no exaggeration) multiple times, it's genuinely the coldest place I've ever been outside of the arctic circle.

Add to that that it's located right in the middle of a suburban wasteland with no entertainment, food, or accommodation within walking distance and terrible public transport links (basically non-existent), and the whole place is just a rundown dump.

Swap it for even just a no frills modern stadium and the Raiders attendance would jump by at least 3-5k, depending on the opposition, overnight. Build that new stadium in a better, more central, location with the basic amenities that are taken for granted everywhere else, and their average attendance would jump by even more than that.

It sounds a bit like the old wind swept Waverley park. Not near anything, poor public transport, so far from the field and bitterly cold.

On the toilets though, at least they actually have them, I was told Manuka has a lot of portables and the so called 'good stand' is so tightly packed in, that everybody has to get up any time someone comes in their row, almost like sitting on an aeroplane .

 

[Badger17]

It sounds a bit like the old wind swept Waverley park. Not near anything, poor public transport, so far from the field and bitterly cold.

On the toilets though, at least they actually have them, I was told Manuka has a lot of portables and the so called 'good stand' is so tightly packed in, that everybody has to get up any time someone comes in their row, almost like sitting on an aeroplane .

The sewage leak at Bruce was a problem with a sump under the stadium, not the toilets themselves, but I'd take portables that flush over toilet blocks that don't any day of the week.

Bruce's toilets are so bad that I've refused to use anything other than the urinal for about 20 years.

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

Interesting tender out on Tenders.act at the moment - complete technical due diligence for a new eastern stand for Manuka.

 

[Canberra Pear]

And Canberra's team is drumroll - the Sydney Swans.



Canberra AFL fans have answered the big questions about what AFL fandom looks like in Canberra, with 654 respondents from the Canberra region.

Some key takeaways:

Most popular teams
The most popular team in Canberra is the Swans. The Giants, Collingwood and Carlton were second, third and fourth respectively.

The Giants have never hosted the Swans, Pies, Blues, Dons or Eagles in Canberra, which means 43% of fans haven't got to see the Giants host their team.

Foundation members
Extrapolated from those who identified as Giants members, the survey indicates 23,710 Canberrans would, or probably would, buy a membership. That’s 68% more foundation members than the Suns had – and more than double the Giants.

That's without interstate or early bandwagon supporters boosting that number.

Giants in Canberra
The survey also helps bust the myth that Canberra support is too big for the Giants to lose. While Canberra has one fifth of Giants members, only 35.7% of those identify as Giants fans. Take away non-Giants-supporting members, and Canberrans make up 8% of members.

Furthermore, 76.5% of Canberra Giants fans said they would, or probably would, by a membership to a Canberra team. This rose to 83.3% of Giants fans who did not have a current membership, meaning they would likely be more invested in a Canberra team.


You can find the results here.

 

[Giant YoYo]

And Canberra's team is drumroll - the Sydney Swans.

Giants in Canberra
The survey also helps bust the myth that Canberra support is too big for the Giants to lose. While Canberra has one fifth of Giants members, only 35.7% of those identify as Giants fans. Take away non-Giants-supporting members, and Canberrans make up 8% of members.

Thanks for sharing.

This has to be the funniest thing for all those Swans fans in particular who insist the Giants are Canberra's team/from Canberra.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Sampling issue though. One would assume that kids and teenagers are not responding among less than 700 respondents, which still count as Giants fans.

I trust my eyes in seeing actual Giants fans decked head to toe at games in Canberra that I've been to.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Sampling issue though. One would assume that kids and teenagers are not responding among less than 700 respondents, which still count as Giants fans.

Fair point. Kids would be less likely to have been respondents, which would've skewed more towards the Giants. For reference though, the percentage of those who said they supported the Giants shrunk the greater the sample size got. At 156 respondents, it was at 14.1%.

I trust my eyes in seeing actual Giants fans decked head to toe at games in Canberra that I've been to.

I'm not doubting that a decent portion of those are Giants fans, but I know plenty of non-Giants fans in Canberra that still get decked out for games. I own multiple caps, beanies and a scarf.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

And Canberra's team is drumroll - the Sydney Swans.



Canberra AFL fans have answered the big questions about what AFL fandom looks like in Canberra, with 654 respondents from the Canberra region.

Some key takeaways:

Most popular teams
The most popular team in Canberra is the Swans. The Giants, Collingwood and Carlton were second, third and fourth respectively.

The Giants have never hosted the Swans, Pies, Blues, Dons or Eagles in Canberra, which means 43% of fans haven't got to see the Giants host their team.

Foundation members
Extrapolated from those who identified as Giants members, the survey indicates 23,710 Canberrans would, or probably would, buy a membership. That’s 68% more foundation members than the Suns had – and more than double the Giants.

That's without interstate or early bandwagon supporters boosting that number.

Giants in Canberra
The survey also helps bust the myth that Canberra support is too big for the Giants to lose. While Canberra has one fifth of Giants members, only 35.7% of those identify as Giants fans. Take away non-Giants-supporting members, and Canberrans make up 8% of members.

Furthermore, 76.5% of Canberra Giants fans said they would, or probably would, by a membership to a Canberra team. This rose to 83.3% of Giants fans who did not have a current membership, meaning they would likely be more invested in a Canberra team.


You can find the results here.

Not a surprise that a site that wants a Canberra AFL team, unsurprisingly finds this outcome from the people who frequent it and take a survey from there. Also the 654 respondents sample seem small and are self selected, and the methodology does not show how it was screened to be representative of the wider Canberran population. The Giants are Canberra’s AFL team and have almost 7000 members - which do not include kids who are Recruits, or Giants supporters who support the club and attend games but are not paid up members.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Not a surprise that a site that wants a Canberra AFL team, unsurprisingly finds this outcome from the people who frequent it and take a survey from there. Also the 654 respondents sample seem small and are self selected, and the methodology does not show how it was screened to be representative of the wider Canberran population.

The first recipients were followers of Canberra AFL Team's socials, but the vast majority of it came from Facebook targeted ads, targeted at people who had an interest in "Australian rules football" within 40km of Canberra. Tried to make it as wholly representative as I could.

And as I said, the wider the sample size got, the smaller the Giants' share was. That means there's probably quite a few Giants fans following Canberra AFL Team who answered it early on.

The Giants are Canberra’s AFL team and have almost 7000 members - which do not include kids who are Recruits, or Giants supporters who support the club and attend games but are not paid up members.

Not sure what your point is. All clubs have fans that aren't members.

 

[situationz]

And Canberra's team is drumroll - the Sydney Swans.



Canberra AFL fans have answered the big questions about what AFL fandom looks like in Canberra, with 654 respondents from the Canberra region.

Some key takeaways:

Most popular teams
The most popular team in Canberra is the Swans. The Giants, Collingwood and Carlton were second, third and fourth respectively.

The Giants have never hosted the Swans, Pies, Blues, Dons or Eagles in Canberra, which means 43% of fans haven't got to see the Giants host their team.

Foundation members
Extrapolated from those who identified as Giants members, the survey indicates 23,710 Canberrans would, or probably would, buy a membership. That’s 68% more foundation members than the Suns had – and more than double the Giants.

That's without interstate or early bandwagon supporters boosting that number.

Giants in Canberra
The survey also helps bust the myth that Canberra support is too big for the Giants to lose. While Canberra has one fifth of Giants members, only 35.7% of those identify as Giants fans. Take away non-Giants-supporting members, and Canberrans make up 8% of members.

Furthermore, 76.5% of Canberra Giants fans said they would, or probably would, by a membership to a Canberra team. This rose to 83.3% of Giants fans who did not have a current membership, meaning they would likely be more invested in a Canberra team.


You can find the results here.

There are Suns fans (ok, one Suns fan)? Wow, never expected that!

 

[Canberra Pear]

There are Suns fans (ok, one Suns fan)? Wow, never expected that!

I was surprised, too. They responded quite late in the survey, so I thought the Suns weren't going to get anyone.

But I often see a solitary man in Suns gear at Manuka games, so maybe it was him.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I was surprised, too. They responded quite late in the survey, so I thought the Suns weren't going to get anyone.

But I often see a solitary man in Suns gear at Manuka games, so maybe it was him.

My kids and their friends play “AFL club bingo” at the Giants Manuka matches, and invariably Gold Coast cones last. Obviously when we play Gold Coast, Freo is normally at the bottom of the list

 

[Canberra Pear]

My kids and their friends play “AFL club bingo” at the Giants Manuka matches, and invariably Gold Coast cones last. Obviously when we play Gold Coast, Freo is normally at the bottom of the list

Us too! Though we couldn't get the Suns at the AFLW game. We're hoping to have better luck when they actually play the Suns this week.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Labor has made pushing for a BBL team an official election platform.

Would strengthen the case for a Manuka upgrade.

 

[Giant YoYo]

Labor has made pushing for a BBL team an official election platform.

Would strengthen the case for a Manuka upgrade.

View attachment 2111992

Excellent.

It's all slowly coming together.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Bjo187]

Labor has made pushing for a BBL team an official election platform.

Would strengthen the case for a Manuka upgrade.

View attachment 2111992

Barr manipulating the situation perfectly, 100 percent he wants an AFL team imo.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Barr manipulating the situation perfectly, 100 percent he wants an AFL team imo.

I don't want to read too much into it, but I think/hope you're right.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Barr manipulating the situation perfectly, 100 percent he wants an AFL team imo.

I don’t know about making that leap! The increase in capacity for cricket, will also benefit Aussie Rules, but I remain pessimistic that given the huge $$ Barr has spent/ will spend on the Tram, that there will be much $ left for other areas, including for a full time AFL team. As it is there is criticism that Barr’s Tram $ is taking $ from hospitals, health, education and other infrastructure. In any case Barr will soon need to deal with requests for more $ from the Canberra United female soccer team, and undoubtedly the long delayed Canberra male soccer team whose Aleague entry this year was delayed due to investment/ funding issues, will also be asking for $ from the ACT Government.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I don’t know about making that leap! The increase in capacity for cricket, will also benefit Aussie Rules, but I remain pessimistic that given the huge $$ Barr has spent/ will spend on the Tram, that there will be much $ left for other areas, including for a full time AFL team. As it is there is criticism that Barr’s Tram $ is taking $ from hospitals, health, education and other infrastructure. In any case Barr will soon need to deal with requests for more $ from the Canberra United female soccer team, and undoubtedly the long delayed Canberra male soccer team whose Aleague entry this year was delayed due to investment/ funding issues, will also be asking for $ from the ACT Government.

Seeing this BBL announcement (which we all know means an upgraded Manuka), hours after Barr posted how unfeasible a rectangular stadium on the West Basin is, definitely lines up that way. It may be a leap, but things are lining up in that direction.

You also keep going on about the economics. Manuka is getting upgraded independently. Can you please explain to me how a full-time team would be more expensive for the ACT Government than the current situation?

 

[Giant YoYo]

I don’t know about making that leap! The increase in capacity for cricket, will also benefit Aussie Rules, but I remain pessimistic that given the huge $$ Barr has spent/ will spend on the Tram, that there will be much $ left for other areas, including for a full time AFL team. As it is there is criticism that Barr’s Tram $ is taking $ from hospitals, health, education and other infrastructure. In any case Barr will soon need to deal with requests for more $ from the Canberra United female soccer team, and undoubtedly the long delayed Canberra male soccer team whose Aleague entry this year was delayed due to investment/ funding issues, will also be asking for $ from the ACT Government.

If they feel the investment will be repaid back into the economy then they may likely find a way to get the stadium upgrade over the line.

Especially if they have a large contingent of fans travelling to games there. The footy opposition turnout for Giants games in Canberra is already quite big (notwithstanding the Giants Sydney turnout which is obviously an investment the ACT Government feels is paying dividends or else they wouldn't have extended the Giants deal), would be interesting to know how many of those are from outside the ACT/Canberra.