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Carlton’s soul exorcised, I am disappointed
- Thread starter Thrawn
- Start date
- Tagged users None
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Yes and no.
The players at least were able to pick up his game plan and run with it. Under his rein however player development was non-existant. He also signed too many average/below average players for multi-year deals.
Things may be pretty ordinary at carlton atm but when you look a little deeper Mick and the team have recruited well over the past 3 or so years.
- Banned
- #554
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The past 3 years haven't been terrible?
Cripps, Buckley and Menzel who have all won RS nominations. Byrne and Sheehan 2 Irish guys who look promising. Whiley and Jaksch also look like decent players.
Also developing some well in the 2s and they definitely have the potential to make the grade - Graham, Johnson, Boekhorst, Smith, Holman who have all played at the level. Not saying these guys are guaranteed to make the grade but they aren't tracking badly.
That's the spirit Chunky. There is always a place for groundless deluded blind hope in the footy fan. If you tire of the Blues you will fit in well with us.....there is a seat on the stalled tiger train awaiting you any time. You'd fit like a hand in a glove.
But Mick said we're approaching 12 o'clock?
I didn't say anything that wasn't true. Since Hughes left our drafting and recruiting has been ok (besides Jones).
But yeah, you're prob right - keep the seat warm
- Dec 7, 2014
- 3,697
- 9,096
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Philadelphia 76ers
- Banned
- #560
Ratten's recruiting influence is partly the reason Carlton are so shit now
Players recruited under Ratten from 2007 - 2012:
1st Rounders - Kreuzer, Yarran,Lucas, Watson, Bootsma, Menzel
2nd Rounders - McCarthy, Mitchell, Rowe, Temay
3rd Rounders - Armfield, Browne,Robinson, Davies, Buckley, Graham
The bolded players don't even play for us anymore, the rest are average at best. (except Yarran & Menzel)
It's seriously no surprise why Carlton are in such a shit heap at the moment.
Carlton need to do a major list re-evaluation at the end of the year (for the 3rd year in a row)
Mick has a reputation for building a solid list and already Carlton are seeing the benefits with Cripps, Docherty, Everitt, Thomas, plus axing 22 "passengers" from the list.
Keep Mick. Recruit well. Rebuild.
Players recruited under Ratten from 2007 - 2012:
1st Rounders - Kreuzer, Yarran,Lucas, Watson, Bootsma, Menzel
2nd Rounders - McCarthy, Mitchell, Rowe, Temay
3rd Rounders - Armfield, Browne,Robinson, Davies, Buckley, Graham
The bolded players don't even play for us anymore, the rest are average at best. (except Yarran & Menzel)
It's seriously no surprise why Carlton are in such a shit heap at the moment.
Carlton need to do a major list re-evaluation at the end of the year (for the 3rd year in a row)
Mick has a reputation for building a solid list and already Carlton are seeing the benefits with Cripps, Docherty, Everitt, Thomas, plus axing 22 "passengers" from the list.
Keep Mick. Recruit well. Rebuild.
- Apr 12, 2014
- 33,453
- 60,333
- AFL Club
- Melbourne
I think they need to make sure Mick is keen to stay on long-term, and if so sign him up and accept that they are going to go through some pain to rebuild.
I do feel some sympathy for Carlton, both our clubs sold our soul and we have paid for it dearly.
I do feel some sympathy for Carlton, both our clubs sold our soul and we have paid for it dearly.
Thrawn
Premium Platinum
- Thread starter
- #562
Made this thread 16 years ago... in that time we have gone through multiple coaches, multiple rebuilds and nothing much has changed. They are playing like a bottom four side despite having the talent to be a lot better than that, a team for all the faults at least managed to beat finalist teams and come very close to beating two in the final weeks despite an injury list. The regression is a symptom of a stubborn root that cannot either be dug out, or the digging is at the wrong place.
The culture of the club is ferked. When you've got a coach saying that they "trust our forwards to work on their goalkicking" when they have the footy IQ of the amount of behinds they kicked in the past few weeks, then that is really telling. A telling example of this is when Fevola wanted to help McKay, for free, but he declined. The coach thought it wasn't not necessary either, going by past comments. People might say this probably wouldn't have happened with Ross Lyon, and maybe it wouldn't have, but these kinds of things have stuck around for a long time now, even with previous coaches.
It makes you wonder if they train the fundamentals, but ultimately the head of football and recruiting team shoulder a lot of the blame here, as the revolving door of coaches isn't really going to fix anything (and it hasn't). Cultural change for the better starts at the top - and most of us thought it did from the beginning of last year. But what happened instead is that the same, fetid, losing culture still exists.
When Melbourne were struggling, Gawn and a few of the other onfield leaders took the initiative and took the entire playing group to a farm out in the country, somewhere quiet and away from it all. They had a brutally honest discussion of where they were at, and took a united front to pinpoint the problems, address them and stick by certain guidelines. Not long after that, they won a flag. The Carlton players need a similar meeting, because the only way to change things is to be honest with themselves rather than hiding behind a veil of "she'll be right mate" and "I don't need help with my goalkicking".
A part of that passion and culture is lost when players just play for their salary, instead of taking responsibility for how they are playing. Instead of taking pride in the jumper. It might seem silly, but it's something intrinsic and it's that extra 5% that could make the difference in a contested situation. These all add up in the end, the question is whether this current playing group can actually find it - or will it rely on fresh blood who haven't embraced mediocrity for many, many years of their careers.
If you'd ask me if I'd give up Walsh, Weitering, Murphy, Gibbs, etc for not having those wooden spoons; I would do so in a heartbeat. Not like they have lead us to a culture of relative success. Sure, there's time on the first two players' side but as things stand now, the club will need some drastic changes - starting from the people who passed on Lyon to give a failed coach the green light (as awesome as Voss was as a coach, I had my initial doubts). It may even be better for Carlton to get a completely untried coach, with fresh ideas. Despite this, I just don't think sacking Voss now will do anything to stir the ship to a better course... as what aspiring coach would want to take the job when the job security has been very unsecure over the past decade?
The culture of the club is ferked. When you've got a coach saying that they "trust our forwards to work on their goalkicking" when they have the footy IQ of the amount of behinds they kicked in the past few weeks, then that is really telling. A telling example of this is when Fevola wanted to help McKay, for free, but he declined. The coach thought it wasn't not necessary either, going by past comments. People might say this probably wouldn't have happened with Ross Lyon, and maybe it wouldn't have, but these kinds of things have stuck around for a long time now, even with previous coaches.
It makes you wonder if they train the fundamentals, but ultimately the head of football and recruiting team shoulder a lot of the blame here, as the revolving door of coaches isn't really going to fix anything (and it hasn't). Cultural change for the better starts at the top - and most of us thought it did from the beginning of last year. But what happened instead is that the same, fetid, losing culture still exists.
When Melbourne were struggling, Gawn and a few of the other onfield leaders took the initiative and took the entire playing group to a farm out in the country, somewhere quiet and away from it all. They had a brutally honest discussion of where they were at, and took a united front to pinpoint the problems, address them and stick by certain guidelines. Not long after that, they won a flag. The Carlton players need a similar meeting, because the only way to change things is to be honest with themselves rather than hiding behind a veil of "she'll be right mate" and "I don't need help with my goalkicking".
A part of that passion and culture is lost when players just play for their salary, instead of taking responsibility for how they are playing. Instead of taking pride in the jumper. It might seem silly, but it's something intrinsic and it's that extra 5% that could make the difference in a contested situation. These all add up in the end, the question is whether this current playing group can actually find it - or will it rely on fresh blood who haven't embraced mediocrity for many, many years of their careers.
If you'd ask me if I'd give up Walsh, Weitering, Murphy, Gibbs, etc for not having those wooden spoons; I would do so in a heartbeat. Not like they have lead us to a culture of relative success. Sure, there's time on the first two players' side but as things stand now, the club will need some drastic changes - starting from the people who passed on Lyon to give a failed coach the green light (as awesome as Voss was as a coach, I had my initial doubts). It may even be better for Carlton to get a completely untried coach, with fresh ideas. Despite this, I just don't think sacking Voss now will do anything to stir the ship to a better course... as what aspiring coach would want to take the job when the job security has been very unsecure over the past decade?
