Carlton

[jonoman89]

Yep you had injuries but if anything, Carlton's gameplan and depth got shown up today. Having the players in with the right structure is all good and well but if someone that is important to that structure goes down, you need a Plan B. That's where Ratten gets found out. He should be devising a game plan that masks the list deficencies but he only knows one way.

Carlton don't have much tall depth, everyone already knew that. Once Waite and Jamison weren't playing we were pushing wet shit up a hill having Austin, Thornton and Henderson carrying the load.

Austin is terrible, Thornton can't play one out and Henderson is so void of confidence i actually feel sorry for him (however he was very good in defence against JK).

If you only realised today that Carlton's KPP depth isn't good then you're a bit behind.

 

[kacks32]

But last week it was all about how good Carltons depth was, this week it's we had injuries.
Ha!

 

[sTeeL]

Blaming it in media hype is ridiculous. More than a few were predicting 40 point wins to the BLUES with your injuries.

Carlton were well over hyped and were well shown up today. The only player who is worth noting that was missing is Waite, the rest were covered by similar players.

 

[jonoman89]

The only player who is worth noting that was missing is Waite, the rest were covered by similar players.

Yeahh, no. I'd say Jamison is 3x the player Waite is.

Great effort today by the Weagles. Tackling pressure in the midfield was fantastic. Showed us up at our own game. Kerr and Priddis were massive.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Yes, the depth that people were referring to was more our mid sized runners based on the fact that Curnow, Ellard and Tuohy have come in and shown plenty. Key position though, we are still struggling for another year or two. Funnily enough, the players that are candidates for delisting based on performances over the last year or two are key position. We may be forced to hang on to them and delist mid sized players with more potential.

 

[dave_27]

very over rated. same shit, different year.

 

[the dog's kennel]

This game hasn't changed anything.

Carlton are still a Top 4 side. WC are potentially a Top 4 side. I'm confident Carlton would beat WC in September.

And neither are within coo-ee of knocking off Geelong or Collingwood at the end of the year.

As far as I'm concerned they are both legitimate contenders for 2012. And until then, they're just warming up and/or hoping for a Bradbury.

Everyone knows Carlton have a lack of depth in talls. Today just confirmed the worst kept secret in football. Settle down, trolls. They'll buy one over Summer and they'll be laughing.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Carlton don't have much tall depth, everyone already knew that. Once Waite and Jamison weren't playing we were pushing wet shit up a hill having Austin, Thornton and Henderson carrying the load.

Austin is terrible, Thornton can't play one out and Henderson is so void of confidence i actually feel sorry for him (however he was very good in defence against JK).

If you only realised today that Carlton's KPP depth isn't good then you're a bit behind.

I've always known that Carlton has no KPP depth. Only a couple of teams do. The point I am making is that Ratten doesn't help your cause by being so one dimensional in his gameplan. Carlton are very predictable in the way that they set up and most teams know it.

I could say the Hawks have no KPP depth but we keep winning with short people playing because the gameplan is tailored to their strengths. Ratten doesn't have the creativity to change things around to make the most of your personnel and I doubt he ever will.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Great, now they'll come out and flog us by 14 goals

 

[Pklz]

lol thread. Credit to West Coast they beat us all over the ground today.

Jamison injured early, had to go forward before getting subbed off.

Backline consisted of

Tuohy - 3 and a bit gamer
Austin - First senior game in a long, long time.
Thornton - Never been good one on one.
Yarran - Everyone knows his not a great one-on-one defender.
Gibbs - Good player.
Russell - Good player.

Warnock selected in the side by default. He was beaten comprehensively in the VFL last week, didn't deserve a recall.

Waite for Henderson
Robinson for Houlihan
Curnow for Armfield
Duigan for Austin
Laidler for O'Keefe
O'hAilpin for Warnock
Bower for Thornton

Make these changes to our side and we're a much, much better team. Changes aren't unrealistic as none have long term injuries.

 

[jonoman89]

Carlton are very predictable in the way that they set up and most teams know it.

That is simply not true. One of the most versatile forward lines in the league with how evenly spread it is. Too bad the ball wasn't down there today. And our backline is completely different to what it was a few years ago.

If anything, we are too unpredictable and don't have a strong FF who we can rely on to kick 2-3 goals per match. We need more predictability. We've come full circle since the Fevola era.

 

[tomwalsh]

In 2011 - Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn

DAYLIGHT

Carlton/West Coast toss of the coin for fourth but really does it matter?? Both teams too far behind the top 3. Obviously If hawthorn continues HORROR injury run carlton/WCE MAY get lucky but we all know who the best teams are. Carlton aint one of em .... yet.

Today was just one loss and to a team filled with premiership players. Carlton have bee hyped up but until they beat one of the above they are not in the race.

Its hard being in the top 4 and staying in it!! init carlton fans?

 

[herecomesbilly]

 

[TheKITC]

Typical of the knee-jerkers jumping on Carlton after today's loss.

They've been first class this year and can't be dismissed after one poor performance.

They are a lock for third position after round 24 and with a relatively healthy list can do some damage in September.

It's never going to be plain sailing during a footy season and having three games in a row at Etihad Stadium eventually caught up with them today.

One poor game doesn't influence me about my thoughts on the Blues this year. How they respond from today will be more telling.

Too logical and balanced for this thread.

 

[sTeeL]

Didn't West Coast lose to the Hawks by like 7 points in Tasmania after winning the majority of the match? Daylight? No.

I will well agree that Collingwood/Geelong are a step above but Hawthorn isn't that far in front despite popular opinion.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

That is simply not true. One of the most versatile forward lines in the league with how evenly spread it is. Too bad the ball wasn't down there today. And our backline is completely different to what it was a few years ago.

If anything, we are too unpredictable and don't have a strong FF who we can rely on to kick 2-3 goals per match. We need more predictability. We've come full circle since the Fevola era.

More specifically talking about Ratten and his gameday coaching. Good coaches can get their teams over the line by covering structural deficiencies by alternating game plans to suit the personnel. Malthouse is probably the best at it. I actually think Carlton's biggest problem come final time will be in the coaches box rather than the players.

 

[jko'neal]

If Melbourne's defense can beat your forward line, do you think Carlton has anything to worry about? I think not.

Really, Frawley is as good if not better than Jamison and the rest of the Carlton defenders wouldn't tie his shoelaces.

 

[jonoman89]

More specifically talking about Ratten and his gameday coaching. Good coaches can get their teams over the line by covering structural deficiencies by alternating game plans to suit the personnel. Malthouse is probably the best at it. I actually think Carlton's biggest problem come final time will be in the coaches box rather than the players.

He moved Jamison to FF. He moved Austin to FF. He moved Henderson to FB. He moved Russell to HFF. He moved Yarran to HFF. He moved Scotland to the centre square.

Ratten tried everything today. The Eagles responded to all those changes. What more would you suggest Ratten do? Not his fault half of his players playing today were either A) terrible or B) refusing to do the hard yards.

It's all to easy to blame the coach for a loss. The coach can only tell the players how to go about it. He can't play for them.

The Carlton players lost the match today, not Ratten. Bake those blokes, not the coach.

 

[MacReady]

I'm sick of hearing we have an easy run to the end of the year... Have we had a hard run yet? And if our 2nd half is easy our 1st half must've been tough, and we won 9 of 13. We pushed the cats to within 2 points (better than the pies could muster) and if the cats had kicked straight wouldve beaten the pies by about 10 goals! And if we had kicked straight we'd have beaten the cats! But footy isn't played like that. It seems that a team able to keep all their players in with minimal injuries will win the flag. Hawks got lucky this week playing a crippled (and out of form bombers) but that list wouldn't push cats to within 5 goals!
We have depth, but today it didn't work. When your injuries occur mostly in one area of the field, especially the back line, it's crippling. It's always been our weakest area.
1 loss with over half our best out in the backline is nothing to get too concerned over. Just glad to know all who have said our last half is easy must know we play pies, hawks still...
There's a long way to go. Many things can change. But one loss means we are no longer premiership contenders this year...?!? Bullshit! Let's just wait and see what happens. Eagles played there asses off today. We just showed up.

 

[The Match]

Went along today as a neutral observer looking for an entertaining afternoon. I was not let down.

One key observation I made was just how good west coast were at controlling the play. Their forward press was sublime and they corralled the blues for long portions of the game. They carried no passengers and all players looked committed to the game plan and each other. Priddis is a very, very smart footballer and west coast have some impressive big man stocks. When they ran out I was shocked by the sheer size of them. They were huge! Cox, nick Nat, big q, Kennedy and darling!! Wow! They were tall but big as well.

The only time Carlton controlled the match was the first half of the third. In saying that they were always in the game before then through the likes of Scotland and yarran, and also the opportunities created by betts and jeffy g. (he is lightning too!) they just had no momentum apart from the third but then the eagles steadied, stuck to their processesand prevailed.

I left the fame thinking that both teams are finals quality. I am excited for eagles fans about their future.

Also, I am a huge Judd fan, but if you can hold him and limit his impact, like selwood and the eagles did today, then you will go a long way to beating the blues I'm afraid. Not calling them a one man team but he is relied upon too heavily.

Bryce Gibbs should never be used in such a negating way like he was following le cras today. I would be fuming if my team used a player like fisher or Goddard like that. Free him up across half back and let him be attacking.

Carlton should use kruezer as their number one ruckman. He will be the next cox. Play irish up forward and let him do 20/80 ruck/forward share with krueze. Warnock a hack and hampson isn't anything to fear. Develop krueze now and watch him in three years time!!

 

[stickman11]

Went along today as a neutral observer looking for an entertaining afternoon. I was not let down.

One key observation I made was just how good west coast were at controlling the play. Their forward press was sublime and they corralled the blues for long portions of the game. They carried no passengers and all players looked committed to the game plan and each other. Priddis is a very, very smart footballer and west coast have some impressive big man stocks. When they ran out I was shocked by the sheer size of them. They were huge! Cox, nick Nat, big q, Kennedy and darling!! Wow! They were tall but big as well.

The only time Carlton controlled the match was the first half of the third. In saying that they were always in the game before then through the likes of Scotland and yarran, and also the opportunities created by betts and jeffy g. (he is lightning too!) they just had no momentum apart from the third but then the eagles steadied, stuck to their processesand prevailed.

I left the fame thinking that both teams are finals quality. I am excited for eagles fans about their future.

Also, I am a huge Judd fan, but if you can hold him and limit his impact, like selwood and the eagles did today, then you will go a long way to beating the blues I'm afraid. Not calling them a one man team but he is relied upon too heavily.

Bryce Gibbs should never be used in such a negating way like he was following le cras today. I would be fuming if my team used a player like fisher or Goddard like that. Free him up across half back and let him be attacking.

Carlton should use kruezer as their number one ruckman. He will be the next cox. Play irish up forward and let him do 20/80 ruck/forward share with krueze. Warnock a hack and hampson isn't anything to fear. Develop krueze now and watch him in three years time!!

Bruise free footy. Ha, ha. Can never get the job done when it counts.

 

[blues4flag]

We came across one of the tallest teams in the competition with our defense in tatters.

Jamison played half a quarter in defence,
Duigan was out injured,
Laidler was out injured,
Bower's struggling badly.

Their replacements:
Austin's first game in two seasons
O'Keeffe's debut game
Zach Touhy's fourth game
Dennis Armfield in and out

We had effectively two/three best 22 defenders in the side - Gibbs, Russell and Thornton. Thornton's spot is tenuous and Russell's played up the ground most of the year. We were forced to move Henderson down back.

Add to that Waite, Hampson (far better form than Warnock), Robinson and Curnow and we were up against it.

Missing up to 8 starting 22 players, including our best key forward, four of our best five defenders, our second ruck and Mitch Robinson.

 

[stickman11]

We came across one of the tallest teams in the competition with our defense in tatters.

Jamison played half a quarter in defence,
Duigan was out injured,
Laidler was out injured,
Bower's struggling badly.

Their replacements:
Austin's first game in two seasons
O'Keeffe's debut game
Zach Touhy's fourth game
Dennis Armfield in and out

We had effectively two/three best 22 defenders in the side - Gibbs, Russell and Thornton. Thornton's spot is tenuous and Russell's played up the ground most of the year. We were forced to move Henderson down back.

Add to that Waite, Hampson (far better form than Warnock), Robinson and Curnow and we were up against it.

Missing up to 8 starting 22 players, including our best key forward, four of our best five defenders, our second ruck and Mitch Robinson.

yes we all have players missing!

 

[MacReady]

yes we all have players missing!

Exactly right! So when it happens to us we've just as much right to say so as every other team does. Unfortunately some complain for shit players missing. Our missing group would fit into most teams top 22...

 

[10571z]

We came across one of the tallest teams in the competition with our defense in tatters.

Jamison played half a quarter in defence,
Duigan was out injured,
Laidler was out injured,
Bower's struggling badly.

Their replacements:
Austin's first game in two seasons
O'Keeffe's debut game
Zach Touhy's fourth game
Dennis Armfield in and out

We had effectively two/three best 22 defenders in the side - Gibbs, Russell and Thornton. Thornton's spot is tenuous and Russell's played up the ground most of the year. We were forced to move Henderson down back.

Add to that Waite, Hampson (far better form than Warnock), Robinson and Curnow and we were up against it.

Missing up to 8 starting 22 players, including our best key forward, four of our best five defenders, our second ruck and Mitch Robinson.

So you dont have amazing depth? You had to play 4 players with what less than 10 games between them this year?