Carlton's draw

[kirkyno1]

Blues supporters, please explain:- Adelaide has had 10 years in the AFL and has played Carlton each year (plus one final) in Melbourne for a total of 11 times whilst Carlton has travelled to Adelaide 4 times (1991, 1994, 1997 and 1998). This is probably one of many inconsistencies in the draw, lets have 30 games per year (play each side both home and away), abandon the Ansett Cup as we know it and call the Friday night game of the week the Ansett Cup match. Each club plays 3-4 times on a Friday night and the team with the most Friday night wins is the holder of the Ansett Cup at the end of the year.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

I'm with you kirkyno1

Same situation up here in Sydney - Carlton visit the SCG about once every four or five YEARS

Somebody try and explain the 'fairness' in that for chrisssake ?

The draw is hopelessly compromised and hopelessly unfair.

The big Melbourne four get their so-called 'blockbusters' (in reality these fixtures are footballing gerrymanders) and it seems the rest of the draw is cut and pasted around around these big Melbourne fixtures to suit.

Its just not fair.

All Melbourne clubs should have to travel to Sa and Wa twice, then NSW and Qld once, just like the Non-Vic sides all have to travle to Melbourne 10 times - no ifs, no buts, no beg-pardons.

I wonder just how competitive the Essendons and Carltons of this world would be if they actually had to play everyone else twice - instead of just benefitting from a massivly unfair system all the time.

cheers

 

[Lionel Lyon]

Originally posted by kirkyno1:
This is probably one of many inconsistencies in the draw, lets have 30 games per year (play each side both home and away), abandon the Ansett Cup as we know it and call the Friday night game of the week the Ansett Cup match. Each club plays 3-4 times on a Friday night and the team with the most Friday night wins is the holder of the Ansett Cup at the end of the year.

You betcha. Long live the 30 round season!! Why not just make the minor premier the Ansett Cup winner?

 

[Dan26]

Worm,

Last year you played 9 matches at Optus and 10 at the MCG (including finals)

This year you play 9 at Optus and 8 at the MCG. The MCG total could be as many as 12 once the finals (and any transeferred matches) are over. The MCG is the ground which Carlton have played on the most over the last few years. Don't make excuses because you rarely beat Essendon. We have won 8 of the last 10 against you, and this has had nothing do with any home ground advantage. How can it, when we play on a neutral ground? Any anyway, as I stated, the MCG is the grounf which Carlton play at more than any other, so from now on you will have to put up with our annual beatings of you with a little more acceptance.

 

[jod23]

West Coast and Freo are the only real teams at a disadvantage every year. So what if Carlton has 9 neutral games and 9 home games. They only have 4!! interstate games!! Thats an advantage not a disadvantage.

We have 11 interstate games a year!! Thats a disadvantage.

 

[Worm4]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel:
I'm with you kirkyno1

Same situation up here in Sydney - Carlton visit the SCG about once every four or five YEARS

Somebody try and explain the 'fairness' in that for chrisssake ?

The draw is hopelessly compromised and hopelessly unfair.

The big Melbourne four get their so-called 'blockbusters' (in reality these fixtures are footballing gerrymanders) and it seems the rest of the draw is cut and pasted around around these big Melbourne fixtures to suit.

Its just not fair.

All Melbourne clubs should have to travel to Sa and Wa twice, then NSW and Qld once, just like the Non-Vic sides all have to travle to Melbourne 10 times - no ifs, no buts, no beg-pardons.

I wonder just how competitive the Essendons and Carltons of this world would be if they actually had to play everyone else twice - instead of just benefitting from a massivly unfair system all the time.

cheers

I would love to trade one of our Essendon games for a trip to Adelaide or Sydney anyday of the week but simple fact is that the AFL won't allow it. And whoever said that Carlton should have gone to Adelaide more over the past decade, consider yourself grateful and lucky as Adelaide would have really had no hope anyway.
Just for the record, we have played West Coast in Perth every year since 1987. Has anyone else done that ? EVERYONE knows the draw is not equal and I'll tell you why.....every year, Carlton plays more teams below it on the ladder than the opposition and the rest is history.

 

[GoEagles]

Worm - which team do you support? If it's Essendon, they didn't play the Eagles in Perth last year.

 

[Blue Blood]

Well Dan25 why don't you try and solve the problem.Ring up Essendon FC and ask them to make optus oval your home ground.Isn't that why you started this post?There is no other reason why.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Blue Blood:
Well Dan25 why don't you try and solve the problem.Ring up Essendon FC and ask them to make optus oval your home ground.Isn't that why you started this post?There is no other reason why.

I started it because I thought it was a good discussion point that Carlton has the most advantageous draw every year, that's all.

 

[Mouldy Oldie]

Just a quick question. When it comes to the preliminary or grand final, because they are generally played at the MCG, which clubs have the greatest advantage? I would say the Victorian clubs over the interstate teams. Unfortunately, at this point in time we supporters from interstate clubs have to live with that, and no I'm not suggesting we move the Grand Final away from the "G" as I feel it is the only place on Gods earth it could be held. There will always be clubs advantaged & other clubs dis-advantaged for whatever reasons, & it will give supporters of all clubs something to argue & debate about forever & a day. I enjoy reading all the various views except when they become personal & abusive.

 

[Worm4]

I am passionate Carlton . It shit's me when people bring up the fact that Carlton have an advantage in the draw when we only play 9 games at Princes Park and the other 13 away from home. We play Footscray and St Kilda at the Docklands, Essendon Collingwood, North Melb, Richmond and Melbourne as away games at the G ( and hardly getting return home games at PP every year ), and lose 2 HOME games at the G against Collingwodd and Essendon every year. Why doesn't everyone realise that ALL interstate teams signed the licensed agreement with the AFL to join OUR competition, and then complain about the draw every bloody year. Do you think Carlton does the draw each year to suit them ? NO. Do you think Carlton complains when we have to go to Perth every year to play West Coast at Subiaco since 1987 ( an even worse thought when they were a powerful footy club )? NO. Do you think Carlton complain because we don't get return home games at PP against the likes of Essendon, Richmond, and North Melb ??? NO. And lastly, do you think we complain when Brisbane get 11 Gabba games, Sydney 13 SCG Games, Adelaide and Port Adelaide 12 Footy Park games, West Coast and Fremantle 12 Subiaco games ?????? NO !!!!! So stop your bloody whinging and go and follow soccer if it upset's everyone that much.

 

[Mags]

WOW WOW WOW!

Dan u trying to say we get rid of Optus Oval?

Whats wrong with Carlton having there own home ground? Nothin wrong with it.

Im glad Optus is still around and I hope it stays around so it can keep Sat Afvo footy alive.

Mags

------------------
Independent Magpies
http://collingwood.rivals.net
By The Fans For The Fans

 

[Dan26]

Worm,

If I use your logic, I can claim that Essendon give up 4 home games each year - including games against Carlton and Collingwood. You only give up 2 home games.

Your point about Carlton playing 13 games a way from home is lacking in foresight. You fail to take into account the glut of neutral games (eg MCG games) that Carlton play each year. Don't suggest to me that Carlton are at a disadvanatge when you play us at the "G". You play 8 games a year at the MCG, which often blows out to 11 or 12 once finals are included. You play there more often than you play at Optus Oval!!

Stop using excuses to mask your pain at our annual thrashings of you.

 

[Michele]

Dan25,

I read your post and then I looked at the date!

An Essendon supporter trying to say that Essendon is disadvantaged playing home games, at their home grounds MCG and Colonial. Add in the finals, yes I can see Essendon is greatly disadvantaged.

Michele

NMFC 1869

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Michele:
Dan25,

I read your post and then I looked at the date!

An Essendon supporter trying to say that Essendon is disadvantaged playing home games, at their home grounds MCG and Colonial. Add in the finals, yes I can see Essendon is greatly disadvantaged.

Michele

NMFC 1869

Michele, if Essendon is drawn to play a home preliminary final against another Victorian club, how is this an advanatge???

How were our "home" MCG finals against the Kangaroos and Carlton last year, advanatgeous for us from a "home ground advanatge" point of view?

Please explain?

 

[Michele]

BSA,

I have been saying for a long time now, that the 'draw' is a 'fixture'.

The AFL want so-called block-busters for a larger attendance figure each year. So they put the big 4 on certain days every year, and the rest of the draw is made-up around those days.

Add to this, the 'wish list' the CEO's of each club gives to the AFL and one has a hoplelessly compromised draw.

Michele

 

[kirkyno1]

Originally posted by Worm4:
I am passionate Carlton . It shit's me when people bring up the fact that Carlton have an advantage in the draw when we only play 9 games at Princes Park and the other 13 away from home. We play Footscray and St Kilda at the Docklands, Essendon Collingwood, North Melb, Richmond and Melbourne as away games at the G ( and hardly getting return home games at PP every year ), and lose 2 HOME games at the G against Collingwodd and Essendon every year. Why doesn't everyone realise that ALL interstate teams signed the licensed agreement with the AFL to join OUR competition, and then complain about the draw every bloody year. Do you think Carlton does the draw each year to suit them ? NO. Do you think Carlton complains when we have to go to Perth every year to play West Coast at Subiaco since 1987 ( an even worse thought when they were a powerful footy club )? NO. Do you think Carlton complain because we don't get return home games at PP against the likes of Essendon, Richmond, and North Melb ??? NO. And lastly, do you think we complain when Brisbane get 11 Gabba games, Sydney 13 SCG Games, Adelaide and Port Adelaide 12 Footy Park games, West Coast and Fremantle 12 Subiaco games ?????? NO !!!!! So stop your bloody whinging and go and follow soccer if it upset's everyone that much.

You are an absolutely fair dinkum idiot. Shit it must be difficult travelling approx 3-4 kms to the "G" or "Colonial" and not having to get in a plane and travel for 2-3 hours. Both the G and Colonial have minimal advantage to the opposition you name, given all Vic teams play their numerous times at either venue whilst teams drawn to play Carlton at Optus only play there once a season. Interstate sides paid $4m for their licence and if it wasn't for the money paid by the interstate clubs about 3-4 of the Vic sides (notably Richmond, St Kilda, Western Bulldogs) would have fallen over (and who knows some will by the end of the decade and then we will see a more equitable draw for all concerned).

 

[Worm4]

Originally posted by kirkyno1:
You are an absolutely fair dinkum idiot. Shit it must be difficult travelling approx 3-4 kms to the "G" or "Colonial" and not having to get in a plane and travel for 2-3 hours. Both the G and Colonial have minimal advantage to the opposition you name, given all Vic teams play their numerous times at either venue whilst teams drawn to play Carlton at Optus only play there once a season. Interstate sides paid $4m for their licence and if it wasn't for the money paid by the interstate clubs about 3-4 of the Vic sides (notably Richmond, St Kilda, Western Bulldogs) would have fallen over (and who knows some will by the end of the decade and then we will see a more equitable draw for all concerned).

It takes some team longer to travel to Geelong than it does for the Crows/Power to travel to the G. Listen...I understand totally where the interstate teams are coming from but that's just tough luck. Like I said previously, you pay the money to entre the competition on the proviso that you get at least 11 home games. The travel factor is just part of the logisitcs so there is no use complaining about it. The main point of the argument stems from Dan24 aka Dan 25 who is an Essendon person. My opinion ( and my opinion only ) is that Carlton do have a disadvantage when we play Essendon and North at the G. The advantage for them is that these games are usually played under lights. Carlton rarely plays under lights and hence there is an advantage to these teams who play week in week out at a night game at the G. If Dan can't see an advantage there, well i think he needs to get his head read ( I would also like Dan to point out to me that he is glad that they play Carlton at the MCG every year instead of Princes Park. Does Dan think that Essendon's record over Carlton would be that good if we played at PP once a year every year ? )

 

[Hawkforce.]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's:


Why don't we just make all teams carbon copies of each other? Personally, I miss the individualism of the clubs and their grounds. I love the suburban ground. Made the footy seem more real somehow and therefore less commercial.

The "suburban ground" you are referring to, can these days cost over 30 bucks to get into.

Some of the most passionate hawthorn/football fans I know refuse to go to Optus because of the price.

Optus is the absolute opposite of what the "suburban ground" nostalgia is all about. The sooner it is scrapped the better for football.

 

[Britney Spears]

Originally posted by Dan25
The subject of the uneven draw seems to crop up quite a bit here from time to time. Now personally, I have no problem with the teams that any club is drawn to play once or twice. I beleive this is irrelevant. At the start of any year, no one knows how good or bad any of the other teams are going to be, so the difficulty of the draw is hard to work out.

So, I don't have a problem with the allocation of blockbuster games and all that, because the difficulty level of your opposition over a long period of time will be the same for all teams.

I do, however, have a problem with the venues, in particular, the venues for Carlton's 22 home and away games. Carlton's 22 match season can be shown accordingly:

8 MCG games - neutral
1 Colonial stadium game - neutral
9 Optus oval games - home ground advantage
4 interstate - disadvantage

This means that taking out the neutral games, Carlton has 9 games where they have an advantage and only 4 where they are at a disadvantage. Their overall advantage is +5.

To show how big this advantage is, lets imagine team X is a "middle of the road" team. Team X wins all their home matches, lose all their away matches, and win half their neutral matches. They could win all their home ground advantage matches (say 7), lose all their disadvanatge matches (say 7) and win half of their 8 neutral matches. This would leave team X on 11 wins, which is where they should be.

Let's suppose that Carlton were a middle of the road team. In actual fact, they are much better than that, but lets suppose they were an 11 win team.

If this was the case, they would win their 9 home ground advanatge matches, lose their 4 disadvantage matches, and win half of their 9 neutral matches. This gives Carlton 13.5 wins, when hypothetically they should only be an 11 win team. That's effectively an extra 3 wins.

In reality, Carlton are probably a 14-15 win team, which means the draw should inflate them to 16-18 wins. The problem is that Carlton get this treatement every year, because, as a Victorian team, they get minimal intersate travel, but get the BONUS of having a home ground advantage to complement this. Teams like Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon, Melbounrne, St.Kilda etc etc, don't really have a home ground advanatge, so the minimal intersate travel doesn't help them, because there is no home ground advanatge to complement it. But Carlton get the best of both worlds, which is very unfair. And they get this every year.

What's the answer? Perhaps making them play at all 6 intersate venues. Carlton has travelled less than any other team over the last 10 years, and they are the ONLY team that has never had to pay at the full quota of venues. Even Essendon, in 1997 had to play intersate 6 times. Surely, in the interests of fairnes, it's time that Carlton had to travel 6 times. They have never had to do it before.

He is spot on