Can we get a count on Nazi references in this thread? Gotta be a suspiciously high number given we're talking about drugs & footballers 70 years later.
No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)
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The Prosecutor
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Cransberg23
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No, taking deals = being being blackmailed into admitting something you don't believe in order to save your career.
table tennis
Bigfooty class clown
Bit late to be talking about moral fibre isn't it?
Our club didn't make the decisions it has under the scrutiny these blokes have to. And they have to make these decisions because of the lack of scrutiny of our club.
If you take the stand that they were active participants, then you shouldn't be discouraged if we don't field a team round one 2015.
But if you think we have innocent victims, then cut crameri, monfries, Prismall and the rest of the players who are no longer there the same slack.
Our club put these people in this position, how they get out of it, they relied on the club to do, but for 20 months, nothing has been made clearer, I can understand going it alone, I'd have lost trust long ago
The Prosecutor
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The point is, Ben continues to adore and put Hird on pedestal when him and others say he did exactly the same thing.
Through out this whole thing we have kept hearing that the players are sticking together, don't care about external influences, not going to take deals, believe they are innocent....
If they take deals then from the outside it just looks like they have done a complete 180 to everything we have previously heard
If they take deals then from the outside it just looks like they have done a complete 180 to everything we have previously heard
I certainly hope the players fight hard against a highly circumstantial case and blow it out of the water so they can really move on with their lives. However, I tend to agree with this. Taking a deal does not mean that they are admitting to drug cheating. They are admitting that they can't be sure that an employee at the club gave them a banned substance without their knowledge.
However, if it comes out that the players new all along that they had been given TB4 and have strung us all along this far then the should be booted.
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If the players do take deals I would want to know what they agreeing to, what they have admitted and why they are admitting to it.There needs to be some details and clarity for the supporters I believe. I might be wrong but it just appeared to me that the NRL boys just sort of wandered away after the deal leaving everyone in the dark a bit.
I don't know who should provide that clarity but it is nowhere near adequate for the players to do a deal and then just resurface early next year. And a vague sweeping statement from the AFLPA is not good enough.
I don't know who should provide that clarity but it is nowhere near adequate for the players to do a deal and then just resurface early next year. And a vague sweeping statement from the AFLPA is not good enough.
Spot on, which is why if they do cave in now it goes against everything they have stood for up until now, and we have a right to feel cheated as a result
This argument is bullshit. James Hird is the antithesis of taking a deal right now. He's the man who's prepared to lose his job to fight this right to the top and then take a stick to those who ran the investigation. Bringing him into this just does not make sense ..... you're not using the Chewbacca defence are you?
Doss
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I did not say that.
Surely it is obvious. The club has tried (and until recently, largely succeeded) in presenting a united front. Part of that is presenting certain answers to certain questions. Like "do you believe you took banned substances?"
I'm not saying the members, and you as a fan, do not have a right to feel wronged or deceived in that scenario. You do, because you would have been.
But, it is far less black and white than the players being cowards. Consideration of public relations is a very big part of modern football clubs and a big part of that is presenting a certain image to the public. When crises strike, this becomes more relevant. Players who don't want to be a part of that sort of environment don't tend to last in the AFL these days.
My anger would be directed at the club, not the players.
I'd say they players are anything but cowards..... Everything else though I agree with, to an extent.
They've held strong for this long.... They simply cannot roll over now. Too much damage has been done, and far greater damage will be done as a result
If the club thought there was a chance that Tb4 was used and the legal actioin was a way around it but failed, I'd be angry with the club, it would mean a clean out across the board, management and football department,
As I've said above, WADA has little to no room for if you were genuinely dubbed, the club may believe they are in the right but may see evidence they don't have yet that shows they may have been tricked. If that evidence stacks up and something they didn't know about. Even then, a clearout is needed.
As per Doss I'd be angry at the club, but couldn't turn on the players.
Ben the Gooner
Stand by Hird
It's ridiculous. There's no point debating with people who refuse to see. The ignore list grows day after day.
IggypopsTshirt
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Hello
The Prosecutor
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Remind me then why he was off getting a tan in Paris this season while Thompson was coach?
cymarak
Go Gators !
Of course there's a chance TB4 was used - is anyone prepared to say there is no chance TB4 was used ?
Ben the Gooner
Stand by Hird
At the end of the day, if they take deals, they're either cowards or liars. Refusing to stand up for themselves, or spending two years extorting thousands of dollars each out of thousands of members. The Nuremberg defence doesn't cut it for me, if it came out of their mouths, they said it. Simple as that. If they didn't learn not to blindly trust their footy club from this whole thing, they are literally the dumbest people I've ever come across.
I don't believe they're cowards, because I believe they're going to fight it through to the end. This discussion is about the hypothetical situation where they take a deal.
I'd say there is a fair chance it was used... But whether or not they can prove it, enough to issue suspensions is another thing all together
I guess, if ASADA's intel makes it look like a serious chance, the risk of taking it to a tribunal etc where they may give the full ban vs a deal.
A bit of an all or nothing stratagy, it depends where you feel you stand. If you strongly believe you are innocent I agree fight, but if you see a serious risk...
Absolutely hypothetical, but if they did take deals they are anything but cowards
cymarak
Go Gators !
Absolutely - it's not about whether there was a chance TB4 was used, but how much 'proof' is required before it becomes fair to suspend players.
The Prosecutor
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Holy shit, how the **** do you not realise how much you can apply this to Hird of last year?
Hird spent all of last year sprouting how we would be in a good place at the end of it only to accept a deal.
Hird stood at that press conference and said that he had no faith in the AFL and that they were out to get him and he would fight it only to deal.
Hird said that he took full responsibility for what happened only to claim he was forced to say it.
"Do what James would do."
Ben the Gooner
Stand by Hird
If they take deals, they either believe they're guilty in which case they're liars (don't think this one can be disputed) or they believe they're innocent in which case I believe they are cowards. You don't plead guilty to something you didn't do when the stakes are this high. The parking fine analogy doesn't wash, because this is something more than $70.
If they're lacking the fight to defend their own reputations, why would they have the fight required to win a premiership? Why would they have the fight to win respect from the footballing public? Why should they get even the tiniest bit of my financial or emotional support?
I'd like to think that Hird deeply regrets giving in last year, and with the events of this year, with more media BS, he now has said enough is enough, and won't be folding for anyone anymore, if he thinks the fight is just and worthy.... Surely we have to believe that he is doing this for the players, for himself and for the club, not just because of his own ego and selfish purposes?
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