No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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cymarak said:
Of course there's a chance TB4 was used - is anyone prepared to say there is no chance TB4 was used ?
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I think that's the wrong question. We obviously don't know, but I believe the club does.

Whether Tb4 could have been used is a question, but I don't believe there is any grey area in the answer to this one. For us uninformed outsiders, the "could haves" are plausible theories, but one way or another I believe those at the club know the correct answer.
 
Or, if they're innocent (or believe they're innocent) but take deals, maybe they've been advised that the system and the SCN process is hopelessly stacked against them.
 
bomberz20_72 said:
I'd like to think that Hird deeply regrets giving in last year, and with the events of this year, with more media BS, he now has said enough is enough, and won't be folding for anyone anymore, if he thinks the fight is just and worthy.... Surely we have to believe that he is doing this for the players, for himself and for the club, not just because of his own ego and selfish purposes?
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Look, I'm not going to get into a debate about the whole Hird thing at the moment, I'm just highlighting the absolute hypocrisy of Ben labeling the players as liars or cowards when he penned that fanboy plea to the board to keep James Hird the other day amongst other things despite committing very similar actions to that he accuses the playing group of.
 

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wow...

Essendon's fight to retain its players continues to escalate, with Kyle Hardingham the latest to signal he wants to leave, in part because of the toll the current environment has taken on him.

Hardingham's management had told coach James Hird soon after the season finished that he wanted out because of a lack of opportunity. He has managed just the eight games in each of the past two seasons.

However, it has emerged the dramas around the supplements program have taken its toll, as they have with teammates Jason Winderlich and Paddy Ryder who have sought a trade, citing the fall-out of the supplements program.

In a statement released to Fairfax Media on Wednesday morning, the management firm SMA Sports Agents representing Hardingham said: "Kyle Hardingham is seeking to be traded. He is keen to explore greater opportunities and has advised James Hird and the club's management of this. Kyle is looking for stability. The issues surrounding the club at the moment have worn him down."


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ments-saga-20141008-10rptb.html#ixzz3FVdNL7sL

what a ****ing joke. Guy can't get a game and asks for a trade. Now his scumbag manager is trying to use the saga as greater leverage.

**** off
 
Ben the Gooner said:
If they take deals, they either believe they're guilty in which case they're liars (don't think this one can be disputed) or they believe they're innocent in which case I believe they are cowards. You don't plead guilty to something you didn't do when the stakes are this high. The parking fine analogy doesn't wash, because this is something more than $70.

If they're lacking the fight to defend their own reputations, why would they have the fight required to win a premiership? Why would they have the fight to win respect from the footballing public? Why should they get even the tiniest bit of my financial or emotional support?
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Agree with them being liars, and I strongly believe they are not cowards regardless of whether they take deals or not... Maybe it makes them defeated, desperate, mentally shot, who knows... But I think they way they have stood up on the football field, not all the time, but more frequent then the past 10 years, says to me that they are not cowards.

Cowards wouldn't come back from 30 odd points away to Freo

Cowards wouldn't have stood up at the death away to Port

Cowards wouldn't have reacted with such heart break when they lost to North

They've been very brave, I hope they can continue to fight the system a little while longer
 
Doss said:
Or, if they're innocent (or believe they're innocent) but take deals, maybe they've been advised that the system and the SCN process is hopelessly stacked against them.
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That raises a whole host of problems and questions.

This isn't right.. but right now it appears the fight is taking the toll. Most players acknowledging it wasn't the supplements or the supplement program they are worried about.. it is the ongoing speculation, drama, innuendo and media pressure. Unrelenting pressure.

We either end up with dust or diamonds I guess.
 
bomberz20_72 said:
Agree with them being liars, and I strongly believe they are not cowards regardless of whether they take deals or not... Maybe it makes them defeated, desperate, mentally shot, who knows... But I think they way they have stood up on the football field, not all the time, but more frequent then the past 10 years, says to me that they are not cowards.

Cowards wouldn't come back from 30 odd points away to Freo

Cowards wouldn't have stood up at the death away to Port

Cowards wouldn't have reacted with such heart break when they lost to North

They've been very brave, I hope they can continue to fight the system a little while longer
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And when they throw in the towel for something far more important than a few games of footy?
 
Ogg Cat said:
Look, I'm not going to get into a debate about the whole Hird thing at the moment, I'm just highlighting the absolute hypocrisy of Ben labeling the players as liars or cowards when he penned that fanboy plea to the board to keep James Hird the other day amongst other things despite committing very similar actions to that he accuses the playing group of.
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Fair enough, I think we all at times display some inconsistencies with our arguments, some have accused you of the same hypocrisy (I'm not one of them)
We all focus on key elements when presenting our arguments whilst at times forgetting to see the other side of the picture....
It's a very hard subject to remain completely in partial because we are all emotionally involved
 
Ben the Gooner said:
And when they throw in the towel for something far more important than a few games of footy?
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Cowards would have thrown in the towel a long time ago.....

Maybe they are just absolutely defeated, they have been victim to a media barrage, mental torture to a certain degree...

Everyone has their limits....

All hypothetical of course
 
I wonder what has changed. Club and playing group have been rock solid for two years.

Now it appears the wheels have fallen off.

Hmmm almost like the club 'lost' the playing group at some stage this year.. and the players no longer TRUST the board to honour promises, keep them safe or look out for their interests.. maybe like the players no longer seem prepared to live with the uncertainty, lack of leadership, lack of direction and constant board heck ups.. maybe watching the spectacle that was the Crichton was the final straw...

no surprise it is the fringe players.. but maybe as a fringe player... you say 'truck it.. why stay in the VFL with all this shit when I can be somewhere else'

TBH.. I raised the possibility of multiple trades a month ago.. and I stand by it.. time to clean out the list.. move on and start fresh.

If that means a new coach as well.. and I mean NEW.. not Thompson.. then so be it.

Time for this to end.
 
Ben the Gooner said:
Whether Tb4 could have been used is a question, but I don't believe there is any grey area in the answer to this one. For us uninformed outsiders, the "could haves" are plausible theories, but one way or another I believe those at the club know the correct answer.
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IMO the only one who knows the correct answer with a high degree of certainty is Dank - everyone else is going off a combination of trust and hope, and they're pushing the line about the club knowing exactly what the players took because tactically that is the right thing to say.
 

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Ogg Cat said:
Remind me then why he was off getting a tan in Paris this season while Thompson was coach?
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That was for "governance" issues and was basically forced upon him by the club. Players certainly wont be sacked if they chose to fight the charges nor will the club get in more trouble if they do.
 
bomberz20_72 said:
Cowards would have thrown in the towel a long time ago.....

Maybe they are just absolutely defeated, they have been victim to a media barrage, mental torture to a certain degree...

Everyone has their limits....

All hypothetical of course
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Don't interrupt Ben while he's atop his high horse, preaching to the players how they should handle a situation he, and none of us, cannot comprehend.
 
rines said:
I wonder what has changed. Club and playing group have been rock solid for two years.

Now it appears the wheels have fallen off.

Hmmm almost like the club 'lost' the playing group at some stage this year.. and the players no longer TRUST the board to honour promises, keep them safe or look out for their interests.. maybe like the players no longer seem prepared to live with the uncertainty, lack of leadership, lack of direction and constant board heck ups.. maybe watching the spectacle that was the Crichton was the final straw...

no surprise it is the fringe players.. but maybe as a fringe player... you say 'truck it.. why stay in the VFL with all this shit when I can be somewhere else'

TBH.. I raised the possibility of multiple trades a month ago.. and I stand by it.. time to clean out the list.. move on and start fresh.

If that means a new coach as well.. and I mean NEW.. not Thompson.. then so be it.

Time for this to end.
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Relax rines. No idea about Winderlich. I reckon Ryder wont get traded and the only players to leave will be Jetta + Hardingham as practically delisted, probably Kavanagh too.
 
cymarak said:
IMO the only one who knows the correct answer with a high degree of certainty is Dank - everyone else is going off a combination of trust and hope, and they're pushing the line about the club knowing exactly what the players took because tactically that is the right thing to say.
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I dunno, I'm not at all convinced by the idea of "spiking" shots. If Dank wanted to use Tb4, he could have just used it as "thymosin" and no one would have said boo. There would have been no need to say there's a good and bad thymosin either.
 
Ogg Cat said:
I'm at the point where I would be pretty happy to have a third-party coach.

I still reckon Thompson is the best on the market, but something's got to give and Hird can't stay on.
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I like your post. I guess Hell just froze over.

I still reckon Hird is the right way to go, but something's go to give and this situation can't go on.
 
Yes, above all else- something has got to give. The current situation appears to be a complete impasse and is immensely damaging.
 
fishardansin said:
Relax rines. No idea about Winderlich. I reckon Ryder wont get traded and the only players to leave will be Jetta + Hardingham as practically delisted, probably Kavanagh too.
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I'm actually pretty calm today.. but I think it is time to start healing. Choice a coach, stick to that decision.. clean out the players who want to go.

Start 2015 with a clean slate.

Time for the club, the board, the supporters, the members, the players.. all to be on the same page again.

Funny.. this time last year... Brisbane was in disarray.. board fighting all year.. players wanted out.. shambolic. This trade season.. new coach, strong board and suddenly they look like they will acquire 4 players during the trade period. Amazing what stability, some goodish form and some cap space can achieve!
 
rines said:
I wonder what has changed. Club and playing group have been rock solid for two years.

Now it appears the wheels have fallen off.

Hmmm almost like the club 'lost' the playing group at some stage this year.. and the players no longer TRUST the board to honour promises, keep them safe or look out for their interests.. maybe like the players no longer seem prepared to live with the uncertainty, lack of leadership, lack of direction and constant board heck ups.. maybe watching the spectacle that was the Crichton was the final straw...

no surprise it is the fringe players.. but maybe as a fringe player... you say 'truck it.. why stay in the VFL with all this shit when I can be somewhere else'

TBH.. I raised the possibility of multiple trades a month ago.. and I stand by it.. time to clean out the list.. move on and start fresh.

If that means a new coach as well.. and I mean NEW.. not Thompson.. then so be it.

Time for this to end.
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Apart from Ryder+Licka it's all the fringe players that want out.
 
BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!! said:
Apart from Ryder+Licka it's all the fringe players that want out.
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Yep.. no doubt the 'saga' is a cool excuse rather than "I'm too shit to make it on the senior team and maybe your club would want me"

Also.. if you aren't getting senior games.. then life is pretty shit already.. adding this 'drama' on top.. would make it pretty shitful imho.

So putting it together.. of course you would want out.

Also we lost next to no-one last year.. so we were due for a few fringe players to move on.. more than due really.
 
Doss said:
Yes, above all else- something has got to give.
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how about the Essendon supporters try and avoid frothing at the mouth, attacking each other and basically losing their s***. this is more embarrassing than the clubs woes right now. we'll get through it. we've got 2 great coaches to choose from. hardly the end of the world.
 
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