Changes v GWS

[Janus]

Surely you don't seriously believe we changed our game plan after one week because the fans didn't like it? The possession game was a horses for courses move and it was for the Freo game only. Ken is not and never will be that type of coach.

The gameplan didn't change. The players adherence to it did. And I think that gameplan involves all out fast paced attack when there's an opening, but slow methodical build up when there isn't. Ken would have seen Hawthorn first hand...he knows they are the pitching wedge to a Geelong/Port Adelaide driver. Imagine having both in your arsenal.

But seriously - how is it that a game style perfected by Fremantle - the forward press - that we dealt with so contemptuously in Round 1 be such a struggle to deal with from lesser exponents of it? We lost to Brisbane and Carlton FFS. No gameplan calls for zero defence - but that's exactly what those games were.

Make no mistake, the players desire to be heroes and be the one to lead the team to glory is the very reason why we are where we are. No one notices the unrewarded running except the coaching staff and opposition analysts. But once they start doing the gut running again...things will change very quickly.

Whether we are Geelong 2006 or Adelaide 2006 is up to the desire of the players, not Ken.

 

[Malibu#27]

Anyone care to update us on what Harvey and Clurey have done in the SANFL?

lel

Harvey 4 handballs and a mark to 3/4 time and didn't seem to get near it in the last. Still don't think he's near ready.

 

[Spadge]

i only saw the last quarter. Harvey took a nice mark on the Glenelg 50 from a kickout. Other than that i didnt see him at all

 

[1954]

i only saw the last quarter. Harvey took a nice mark on the Glenelg 50 from a kickout. Other than that i didnt see him at all

Yeah Harvs had another quiet game, held scoreless for the 2nd time this year ( and in consecutive games ), I think that is the 1st time that has happened, but definitely not a good sign.

 

[Robbie4PM]

An excerpt from Ken's latest presser on the PAFC site.

When they watch Port Adelaide play at their best they recognise when we've played at our best but they haven't recognised the change in ball movement at times.


"We have three styles of ball movement that we work with all the time – we don't just live in the one world.


"I'm really strong in the belief of what we do and I'm not going to change from that … I don't care if people think I have to change or the team has to change – the team will get it right."

- See more at: http://www.portadelaidefc.com.au/news/2015-08-13/hinkley-has-faith-in-ruck-duo#sthash.9r2ch7pt.dpuf

this makes me want to cut myself

 

[El_Scorcho]

Okay this time it's not your entire post that's wrong, but I have a couple of issues.

The gameplan didn't change. The players adherence to it did. And I think that gameplan involves all out fast paced attack when there's an opening, but slow methodical build up when there isn't. Ken would have seen Hawthorn first hand...he knows they are the pitching wedge to a Geelong/Port Adelaide driver. Imagine having both in your arsenal.

Our movement ahead of the ball is non existent. We chip around out of necessity because teams have flooded back, not because we're trying to or because we're good at it.

If we were employing it as a deliberate tactic, we'd have some idea of what to do when we're being flooded back against. We clearly don't. It's a coaching issue.

We weren't even capable of it against West Coast when we were full of confidence and working hard. We don't know what to do because we haven't practiced it enough because it's not our game plan.

But seriously - how is it that a game style perfected by Fremantle - the forward press - that we dealt with so contemptuously in Round 1 be such a struggle to deal with from lesser exponents of it? We lost to Brisbane and Carlton FFS. No gameplan calls for zero defence - but that's exactly what those games were.

Teams don't forward press us, they sit back so we can't get over the top. There are players pressing, but teams generally know they can let us chip around in our back half because we'll run out of ideas and turn it over when we're outnumbered in the forward half.

We looked like we couldn't defend in those games because we played right into our opponents hands, and got slaughtered on the counter. It's how we've lost all year.

 

[El_Scorcho]

If we have 3 styles of ball movement, one is effective but teams set up to counter it, and the other two are totally ineffective.

The slingshot is effective and will be effective again when we become more than a one trick pony.

Our movement away from stoppages is good, but our delivery into the forwardline is rudderless shit. We don't spot up targets nearly often enough. If we waltz out of a stoppage, we need to find a leading target. We very rarely do that.

The slow ball movement from the back is laughably bad. League worst. We just don't move to create space and we don't have a lot of good marking targets for when we're inevitably forced to kick to a contest because we don't move.

 

[Doctor Feel]

I can't believe how easily teams lock us into defensive 50. They have done it all year. Place 3 men outside 50 positioned within 15m of the boundary and we are gaurenteed to rainmaker it straight down their throat for them to launch another inside 50. Has happened all year and is a big reason for the lopsided i50 counts.

Secondary to this, one thing has stuck out in my mind. In the second showdown, the crows had a loose man at the centre clearances members side behind the ball - he was there all game, and every clearance the crows got he was involved. Linked up, sharked it you name it. He had oodles of space and plenty of time to dispose of the ball when he got it. We failed to do anything, nothing at all. We didn't even try something, anything. It was bizarre and the only explanation was poor coaching, as whatever we were doing certainly wasn't as effective as what they were doing.

 

[FromTheHartland]

Can someone remind me on the footy train rules for weekends... How early before the game can my partner and I go in for free? We thought we could go in for lunch etc...

 

[John the Butcher]

Can someone remind me on the footy train rules for weekends... How early before the game can my partner and I go in for free? We thought we could go in for lunch etc...

Free travel all day.
Technically 6am to after the game.
(Weeknight games are free travel "3 hours before" but we've been in earlier)

 

[FromTheHartland]

Free travel all day.
Technically 6am to after the game.
(Weeknight games are free travel "3 hours before" but we've been in earlier)

Cheers mate!

 

[Sleezy]

The gameplan didn't change. The players adherence to it did. And I think that gameplan involves all out fast paced attack when there's an opening, but slow methodical build up when there isn't. Ken would have seen Hawthorn first hand...he knows they are the pitching wedge to a Geelong/Port Adelaide driver. Imagine having both in your arsenal.

But seriously - how is it that a game style perfected by Fremantle - the forward press - that we dealt with so contemptuously in Round 1 be such a struggle to deal with from lesser exponents of it? We lost to Brisbane and Carlton FFS. No gameplan calls for zero defence - but that's exactly what those games were.

Make no mistake, the players desire to be heroes and be the one to lead the team to glory is the very reason why we are where we are. No one notices the unrewarded running except the coaching staff and opposition analysts. But once they start doing the gut running again...things will change very quickly.

Whether we are Geelong 2006 or Adelaide 2006 is up to the desire of the players, not Ken.

This is why i don't buy brockblitz's statement about our fitness advantage being affected by our opponents setting up to stop our run.

No-one is stopping us from running but us. Our fitness may have been affected by the lower runing numbers but it's got nothing to do with the oppposition.

 

[El_Scorcho]

This is why i don't buy brockblitz's statement about our fitness advantage being affected by our opponents setting up to stop our run.

No-one is stopping us from running but us. Our fitness may have been affected by the lower runing numbers but it's got nothing to do with the oppposition.

I disagree.

Teams are sitting back and we almost never get the ball over the top and stream forward in numbers anymore because teams know what we're going to do and know when we're most dangerous and set up purely to stop it.

And it works because we don't have a plan B

 

[Janus]

Okay this time it's not your entire post that's wrong, but I have a couple of issues.

Our movement ahead of the ball is non existent. We chip around out of necessity because teams have flooded back, not because we're trying to or because we're good at it.

If we were employing it as a deliberate tactic, we'd have some idea of what to do when we're being flooded back against. We clearly don't. It's a coaching issue.

We weren't even capable of it against West Coast when we were full of confidence and working hard. We don't know what to do because we haven't practiced it enough because it's not our game plan.

Teams don't forward press us, they sit back so we can't get over the top. There are players pressing, but teams generally know they can let us chip around in our back half because we'll run out of ideas and turn it over when we're outnumbered in the forward half.

We looked like we couldn't defend in those games because we played right into our opponents hands, and got slaughtered on the counter. It's how we've lost all year.

Well thanks, glad to know I'm sort of right

I never said we were good at it. If we were, Ken wouldn't be saying that "the team will get it right." We are working on it all the time, but it takes a shitload more time to get right because it's not our primary style but rather a secondary one.

I've personally seen the tactic on a few occasions during the year, when we'll kick the ball backwards to set up another attack down the other wing, but it's met with boos from our fans primarily because we'll be down by a few points at the time and we make the wrong decision by forcing our Plan A football to try to appease the masses. That's what happens - instead of being patient and probing for an opening the way a fencer would do with a riposte, we blindly hack our way forward and hope that one of the forwards that is expecting the midfield to generate movement and space can take a contested mark.

Every team forward presses. That's why it's always so hard to get the ball out of defensive 50 from a kick in. What you're probably talking about is when we get the ball at half back...that's when they drop players back to cover the run as well. And it's true - we will chip the ball around and then a skill error will force the inevitable turn over. The only way you fix that? Speed of ball movement. And that comes from practicing in match day environments and from midfield run - the midfield run that has been non existent this year.

What you're trying to say is that Ken is so stupid that he'll blindly hit his head against a wall and get the team to try and take more and more risks in order to generate run, even though the opposition is giving us free reign to play a possession style and work the ball up the field methodically. I don't buy it. I think the players are just down on confidence so much that they they'll regress to Plan A to 'get them out of trouble' because they are down on the scoreboard and it worked last year, and then when they get put under more pressure when it doesn't work - it's Plan Z time (Primus Ball).

If every other team in the league can adapt their tactics to beat us, it would be the height of arrogance to suggest that our number one game plan doesn't need to adapt to counter theirs. And Hinkley doesn't strike me as being an arrogant coach. Confident? Yes. Pig-headed in his beliefs on how the game should be played? All the best coaches are.

 

[Sleezy]

I disagree.

Teams are sitting back and we almost never get the ball over the top and stream forward in numbers anymore because teams know what we're going to do and know when we're most dangerous and set up purely to stop it.

And it works because we don't have a plan B

Streaming forward is only one type of running in a game. Where is the running to create space? The running to defend?

We all complain that there is no movement when we are kicking out from a behind. We complain about the lack of defensive accountability and trailing behind our harder running opponents. We complain about the lack of hard leads to create space.

That was the running that set us apart last year, and the enabler for our blistering attack. The offensive running is just what people notice.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Well thanks, glad to know I'm sort of right

I never said we were good at it. If we were, Ken wouldn't be saying that "the team will get it right." We are working on it all the time, but it takes a shitload more time to get right because it's not our primary style but rather a secondary one.

I've personally seen the tactic on a few occasions during the year, when we'll kick the ball backwards to set up another attack down the other wing, but it's met with boos from our fans primarily because we'll be down by a few points at the time and we make the wrong decision by forcing our Plan A football to try to appease the masses. That's what happens - instead of being patient and probing for an opening the way a fencer would do with a riposte, we blindly hack our way forward and hope that one of the forwards that is expecting the midfield to generate movement and space can take a contested mark.

Every team forward presses. That's why it's always so hard to get the ball out of defensive 50 from a kick in. What you're probably talking about is when we get the ball at half back...that's when they drop players back to cover the run as well. And it's true - we will chip the ball around and then a skill error will force the inevitable turn over. The only way you fix that? Speed of ball movement. And that comes from practicing in match day environments and from midfield run - the midfield run that has been non existent this year.

What you're trying to say is that Ken is so stupid that he'll blindly hit his head against a wall and get the team to try and take more and more risks in order to generate run, even though the opposition is giving us free reign to play a possession style and work the ball up the field methodically. I don't buy it. I think the players are just down on confidence so much that they they'll regress to Plan A to 'get them out of trouble' because they are down on the scoreboard and it worked last year, and then when they get put under more pressure when it doesn't work - it's Plan Z time (Primus Ball).

If every other team in the league can adapt their tactics to beat us, it would be the height of arrogance to suggest that our number one game plan doesn't need to adapt to counter theirs. And Hinkley doesn't strike me as being an arrogant coach. Confident? Yes. Pig-headed in his beliefs on how the game should be played? All the best coaches are.

The problem with this is...time

Teams are going and gone past us using a similar plan eg bullies and wce

We were the front runners in this gameplan and to have at least 2 teams go straight past us is a reflection on our coaching panels performance

 

[El_Scorcho]

Well thanks, glad to know I'm sort of right

I never said we were good at it. If we were, Ken wouldn't be saying that "the team will get it right." We are working on it all the time, but it takes a shitload more time to get right because it's not our primary style but rather a secondary one.

I've personally seen the tactic on a few occasions during the year, when we'll kick the ball backwards to set up another attack down the other wing, but it's met with boos from our fans primarily because we'll be down by a few points at the time and we make the wrong decision by forcing our Plan A football to try to appease the masses. That's what happens - instead of being patient and probing for an opening the way a fencer would do with a riposte, we blindly hack our way forward and hope that one of the forwards that is expecting the midfield to generate movement and space can take a contested mark.

Every team forward presses. That's why it's always so hard to get the ball out of defensive 50 from a kick in. What you're probably talking about is when we get the ball at half back...that's when they drop players back to cover the run as well. And it's true - we will chip the ball around and then a skill error will force the inevitable turn over. The only way you fix that? Speed of ball movement. And that comes from practicing in match day environments and from midfield run - the midfield run that has been non existent this year.

What you're trying to say is that Ken is so stupid that he'll blindly hit his head against a wall and get the team to try and take more and more risks in order to generate run, even though the opposition is giving us free reign to play a possession style and work the ball up the field methodically. I don't buy it. I think the players are just down on confidence so much that they they'll regress to Plan A to 'get them out of trouble' because they are down on the scoreboard and it worked last year, and then when they get put under more pressure when it doesn't work - it's Plan Z time (Primus Ball).

If every other team in the league can adapt their tactics to beat us, it would be the height of arrogance to suggest that our number one game plan doesn't need to adapt to counter theirs. And Hinkley doesn't strike me as being an arrogant coach. Confident? Yes. Pig-headed in his beliefs on how the game should be played? All the best coaches are.

Teams are dropping back on us as a first option. Speed of ball movement won't fix it consistently because teams are flooding back at the first sign of a turnover, even sacrificing their attacking ability knowing they can beat us by cutting off our run.

We're then forced to move the ball methodically, which I'm sure we're aware of. What I'm saying is that we're the worst side in the league at it. We don't know how to do it. We don't move or create space ahead of the ball. We don't lead well into that space. Nobody seems to have any idea how to do it and that's why Jasper is so valuable because he breaks the lines, gets the opposition panicking and occasionally finds a way through.

We can't be that bad at it without their being a coaching issue. It's not players, it's not confidence, because it happened on occasion last year and happened against West Coast this year when we were in form and playing well.

It's a tactical problem.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

So any word on Butch? Because we don't talk enough about him and all.

 

[Byrons Firen]

If he gets a guernsey look for him to star in defence.