As appropriate today perhaps as beheading for treason was in the past.
One day though, I hope people will wake up to the futility of this practice.
Past Chris Yarran
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As appropriate today perhaps as beheading for treason was in the past.
One day though, I hope people will wake up to the futility of this practice.
Yazz and so many others fall into the drug use/abuse culture. Sanctions on users/addicts don't work. Waste of tax $$ and does nothing to rehabilitate the user.
However, as for the importers, financiers, organisations that manage the supply and distribution. I would make a deal with the Philippines for "offshore" detention. **** em
However, as for the importers, financiers, organisations that manage the supply and distribution. I would make a deal with the Philippines for "offshore" detention. **** em
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If we're going down this line of reasoning, prisons in general are toxic & ineffective hence the ~45% rate of reincarceration.
What do you propose to be a better method of handling crime?
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Of course the CFC owes Yarran.
The CFC promise to EVERY player we recruit must be:
"We think you are made of the right stuff to enhance our footy team. This will be a win for us and a win for you. You will win because by joining the CFC you will become part of our family. We do not just want to stand by you when we can exploit your footy talents. We want you to know we will stand by you in thin times even when we can't exploit your footy talents."
Unless that is the promise made by the CFC to its recruits then there is no honour in being recruited by the CFC. You are just lining yourself up to be exploited for your footy talents to the extent they can be exploited. When you are fully mined you are thrown away with all attention on the next recruit.
Surely we aspire to a CFC that means something to belong to other than exploitation?
All of that is not to say Yarran is not responsible for Yarran. Of course he is. And he will do time for his actions.
But a warm hand stretched out to him now, reminding him that he once was an exhilarating talent and this memory lives on despite his troubles, has at least as much meaning as a 20 year anniversary celebration for the teammates of a flag-winning side.
As for your panacea for the problems of the world, people not taking responsibility and blaming others:
1. Where is your evidence Yarran does not take responsibility for his actions? Having an explanation for actions is not, usually, a failure to take responsibility for them.
2. How would the World's problems all be solved by this collective self-responsibility? Don't we have bankruptcy laws to promote entrepreneurship, relieving those responsible for mercantile failure from all of its consequences, in the belief that the successes outweigh the losses?
AFL clubs offer people an opportunity to have a high earning career plus a career in the industry past their playing days and also the opportunity to set themselves up in another industry post playing. AFL might be tough, all high earning careers are but the opportunities on offer are excellent. Clubs are supportive of their players.
The problem is a lot of people just aren't made of the right stuff to go far and go to elite levels in life because it's not about talents it's about being tolerant and mentally resilient and being capable of doing the hard things. You can give people the world and all the opportunity to make a lot of themselves and there are people who just wont take to it.
Chris Yarran right now should be playing AFL, earning really good money and be setup for life after playing. He had that opportunity, AFL footy gave him that chance. He was handed all of that and went down another path in an environment when many are going down the right path and doing good things.
There are going to be a hell of a lot of people going into AFL clubs like ours, making good money, setting themselves up and going on with their lives successfully post playing. There will always be a certain percentage who go down another path for whatever reason be it mental health, being a pleasure centric person with an addictive personality and/or being someone who is drawn away from the work and the stress of what it takes to make it in this world. There are always going to be people in this world and in a lot of industries who would rather take things easy, achieve little and do whatever they feel like doing.
I've came across people who do meth and the one thing they have all had in common is that they don't care and don't see why they shouldn't regardless of whether they become a liability to society they just don't see a reason to get clean. Some people just want to do a lot of drugs and live without responsibility and they don't care about the consequences. Really hard to change that. I don't know where Yarran is in regards to where he wants to be but from going what I have seen and heard it would not surprise me if his attitude is along these lines.
Carlton could not have offered Yarran a better chance to make a life and make something of himself. He simply didn't make the most of it and went down a path.
You can give the world to people and support them all you want and they end up like this, particularly with meth. Carlton owes Yarran nothing, Yarran owes Carlton nothing.
I hope Yarran goes well and manages to get things right but you get the feel with people like this, like Ben Cousins, the only way they stop abusing drugs is when they are locked away from the drugs. Hopefully he is one of the ones who can change.
The problem is a lot of people just aren't made of the right stuff to go far and go to elite levels in life because it's not about talents it's about being tolerant and mentally resilient and being capable of doing the hard things. You can give people the world and all the opportunity to make a lot of themselves and there are people who just wont take to it.
Chris Yarran right now should be playing AFL, earning really good money and be setup for life after playing. He had that opportunity, AFL footy gave him that chance. He was handed all of that and went down another path in an environment when many are going down the right path and doing good things.
There are going to be a hell of a lot of people going into AFL clubs like ours, making good money, setting themselves up and going on with their lives successfully post playing. There will always be a certain percentage who go down another path for whatever reason be it mental health, being a pleasure centric person with an addictive personality and/or being someone who is drawn away from the work and the stress of what it takes to make it in this world. There are always going to be people in this world and in a lot of industries who would rather take things easy, achieve little and do whatever they feel like doing.
I've came across people who do meth and the one thing they have all had in common is that they don't care and don't see why they shouldn't regardless of whether they become a liability to society they just don't see a reason to get clean. Some people just want to do a lot of drugs and live without responsibility and they don't care about the consequences. Really hard to change that. I don't know where Yarran is in regards to where he wants to be but from going what I have seen and heard it would not surprise me if his attitude is along these lines.
Carlton could not have offered Yarran a better chance to make a life and make something of himself. He simply didn't make the most of it and went down a path.
You can give the world to people and support them all you want and they end up like this, particularly with meth. Carlton owes Yarran nothing, Yarran owes Carlton nothing.
I hope Yarran goes well and manages to get things right but you get the feel with people like this, like Ben Cousins, the only way they stop abusing drugs is when they are locked away from the drugs. Hopefully he is one of the ones who can change.
When you first try meth you are giving a big finger to everyone who ever loved you. This is so sad, met him at a training before a gold coast game and he seemed a shy nice kid.
Knowing how to fix a thing isn’t required to recognise its broken.
Drug related crime is a medical issue IMO. Just throwing the person in jail for 5 years to then have that conviction hang over their head the rest of their life might feel satisfying for those who see justice as retribution, but it does neither society nor individual any favours.
I feel for Yarran, can't help but think it is all a cry for help in some way shape or form.
The drug more than likely was a way to mask the pain he's probably felt for most of his life, a pain many are sheltered from.
Does it make it right? No.
But it should be considered before taking a holier than thou stance.
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The drug more than likely was a way to mask the pain he's probably felt for most of his life, a pain many are sheltered from.
Does it make it right? No.
But it should be considered before taking a holier than thou stance.
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Do we consider the long term impact of the assaults on the victims, or are we only worrying about the drug addicted offender?
There is an expectation from society that any punishment reflects the severity of the crime, particularly when the crime involves innocent victims whose lives have probably been changed forever.
One of the most important lessons of life, often forgotten by offenders & their defenders, is that actions have consequences, whether they be criminal actions or otherwise. If you choose to jump off a roof, the chances are you are going to hurt yourself. If you choose to commit a crime, no matter your state of mind, the chances are you could face sanctions.
- Aug 16, 2009
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You're correct as literally anyone can point out flaws, the real challenge is finding a meaningful solution.
I gain no joy from Yarran's downfall, however, as stated he was convicted of a number of serious crimes and in the absence of a better alternative he was always going to do a stint behind bars.
If a victims injuries could be healed by jailing the offender for 5 years, I’d be all for it. Truth is, it doesn’t do much good for anyone.
I’m no defender of criminal acts or their perpetrators, so scrub that line of thinking straight away. I’m just an advocate for better understanding the human condition and for finding solutions to problems that actually work.
Does a lack of meaningful solution require I silently accept a status quo that clearly has issues?
Nah, **** that sorry. I’m gonna speak out. I see a world of unimagined technological advancement, an ever deepening knowledge of the human condition, and a criminal justice system whose ethos is rooted in a past that had neither.
Are you suggesting that Yaz shouldn't have been sent to jail for his crimes & therefore anyone who commits a crime while under the influence of addictive drugs should have a 'get out of jail free' card for their crimes?
What about the psychological effect on the victims, knowing that a perpetrator is still out there, because they are treated for their mental condition/ drug addiction rather than the crimes they have committed against an innocent person (in this case people).
I feel for Yarran, he has undoubtedly had a harder life than many could understand, he had a chance to make something of himself as a footballer, and has unfortunately thrown it away. I hope he gets the help he requires, but the innocent parties in this deserve better than him being left to re offend while he gets better (which is just as unlikely on the outside world than in prison). I agree we need to do better in rehabilitating addicts, but it needs to happen in the lock up if that's what their crimes deserve.
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Oh your part of the new world belief that people don't need to take responsibility for their actions and it's always someone else fault.
Hilarious
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Humanitarian?
Yarran’s story as I understand it, started with depression stemming from a relationship break up; so perhaps a bit of self medicating early on in his addiction. The guy is sick and the only response we have as an advanced society is to throw his arse in prison for 5 years, and stain him with a conviction for the rest of life? It‘s kinda like a hitting a child for throwing up in the car; after all, it is their own fault for eating so much ice cream at the party.
If through advances in neuroscience and optogenetics, the courts were able to offer Yarran 100% effective treatment for his depression and addiction; if doctors assured you the neural patterns associated with his behaviour had been restored to “normal” and there was a high probability he would return to being a functional and contributing member of society; would you out of principle, prefer the impediment to that of incarceration and a criminal record? To what end?
I’m not suggesting no response, or leaving perpetrators of criminal acts “out there” to repeat their indiscretions. I’m just saying, the criminal justice system is a 2.0 system in a 10.3 world. In desperate need of an update.
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Grammar fail. Check. [It is you're not your].
Comprehension fail. Check. [Nowhere in my post do I imply let alone state people do not need to take responsibility for their actions. Nor, anywhere in my post do I suggest, let alone state, anyone other than Yarran was the cause of his drug problem.]
Fact fail. Check. [There is no evidence of a "new world belief" that people do not need to be self-responsible. As for the question of whether people are responsible for their actions, this is a fascinating philosophical question of whether there is such a thing as free will.
The question is well above my pay grade and in any event has been raging for centuries. Further, as far as I can see most of us act on the assumption that there is such a thing as free will. Hence Windhover is responsible for W's posts as Frumpy is of its excrescences.
The advantage of raising the question of whether there is free will (i.e. whether humans are causes of their actions or mere conduits of other more relevant causes) is that it enables focus to be placed on determining why certain people act in certain ways in certain situations to either increase or decrease the incidence of such actions depending on whether the actions are considered desirable or undesirable.
So, although no doubt drunks should be responsible for their actions, we introduced .05 laws and compulsory seat belts, since these laws have the benefit of reducing deaths and injuries caused by, among other things, drunken driving. A better response than just locking up drunk drivers and throwing away the key? Who knows for sure, not me, but it does seem to help.
Reality fail. Check. [Don't worry though Frumpy. I fully expect you to laugh with hilarity again. It is a perfectly understandable response to a world (for you "new world") you have given up even trying to understand, a world where words like compassion, tolerance and responsibility are only useful when they can be used like sticks to beat up others.]
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What would your reaction be if a meth user stole your car or came to your house and beat you or your partner or kids up? Would you still feel sorry for the meth user? Still want to give them a cuddle and blame someone else? Im not saying Yarran did all those things but meth users are known to do this.
Yarran made his choices, and now has 5 years to deal with it. No-one cops more education about the do's and dont's than AFL players in all aspects of life. Dickhead of the highest order
I would turn the other cheek and invite the meth user to kick my dog, shit on my stove and steal my wallet ffs. Hey that's just me, and I am not even religious.
Is it possible for you to view the incident NOT from the POV of the victim, NOT from the POV of the perpetrator, but the POV of the CFC?
No? I thought not.
Come back to me when you think the CFC might take any credit for Eddie Betts turning from a broadly illiterate trouble-maker into a genuinely reflective star of the game.
Come back to me when you think it is okay to honour our best and fairest winner with the John Nicholls medal.
Come back to me when you think it is okay for the CFC to memorialise the life of a deceased player and the role of the CFC in that player's life.
When/if you do come back to me, tell my why the CFC should only be there for the good stories and not the bad ones.
If the victim were a former CFC player I would expect the club to give some sort of help or support, be it merely emotional.
If the perp is a former CFC player the same should apply.
How much education has been wasted on trying to teach you the correct use of apostrophes (it is don'ts not dont's)? Some learn more quickly than others. Some never learn. Is it your (or you're if you prefer) fault the use of the apostrophy is beyond you? Would even Yarran, having copped so much education in all aspects of life (presumably including basic grammatical rules), be so slow as you?
Does this make you a dickhead of the highest order?
I know we are not going to find any middle ground here, but I would be interested to know your thoughts on what the ultimate outcome should be for the young bloke who has been charged with the murder of the young lady in Royal Park. He was allegedly a 'user' (along with other issues) & it could be argued on his behalf that he needs the type of help which will not be available to him should he be found guilty & sentenced to a long prison sentence. How do we balance the issues surrounding an offender with the expectations of society & the basis of our laws?
This of course feeds back into what Yaz has done & reasons offered to explain his behaviour. I envisage a justice system being tied up in knots while determining which criminal behaviour can be attributed to external factors & which behaviour can't (I would suggest this is already the case). It almost becomes a case of, if you commit a crime whilst using drugs you have an out, but if you aren't using drugs, off to jail you go.
Well I guess you can die on that hill if that's your perogative, but it just seems like empty platitudes if there's no genuine discussion as to how to resolve said issues.
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By all means speak out but at least have something worthwhile to say, at present you're just potting peoples views without offering a meaningful solution or alternative which is nothing short of silly.
Effectively your argument can be surmised as below:
MK: don't put him in prison
BJ: then what?
MK: dunno, just not prison
Not much of an argument and in the absence of a meaningful alternative, the status quo will be retained, particularly in a courtroom.
Ultimately, you're entitled to your views and agree that "the system" requires some work.
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With regards to an alternative, I was watching an Antonio Carluccio cooking show and there was a place he visited in Italy, (I will try and get more details) It was a farm where addicts were sent to instead of prison. It was a working farm where they harvested grapes for wine, milked goats and cows for cheese, they grew their own food to cook and eat ( it was virtually self funded). Summary they were giving these people a purpose and training them for the outside life by learning a trade in agriculture, cooking etc.
All the junkets our pollies go on, you would think they would take what works elsewhere and bring it back here. (ie a myki system)
Best of luck Yaz, I hope you find happiness again.
All the junkets our pollies go on, you would think they would take what works elsewhere and bring it back here. (ie a myki system)
Best of luck Yaz, I hope you find happiness again.
