Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt2

[Kurve]

Here is Claremont Murders - Part One
- Media
- The Bunker
- Hey Bret ...? Unexplained trial mysteries & CSK Supreme Court cliffhangers

 

[kingswood71]

Interesting comment on the West Australian website:
"The West Australian understands a report compiled by a UK-based fibre expert on behalf of the defence was not helpful to their case, and so was not put before Justice Hall."

 

[MightyFreo]

So how come if Brads story with similarities to KK was deemed inadmissible before the trial because Yovich claimed just a coincidence, when his plee was changed to guilty on the eve of the trial, couldn't it then be deemed admissible?
No longer a coincidence but true
Especially with regards to other stories written?
Could be some secrets disclosed in them IMO

 

[MightyFreo]

Chilling story of Chloe ‘connects’ accused to murders

“They say you always remember your first. In my case, I consider my first is Chloe”. These are the chilling opening lines of an abduction and rape story allegedly found on Bradley Edwards’ computer.

thewest.com.au

 

[JezzaPerth]

Interesting comment on the West Australian website:
"The West Australian understands a report compiled by a UK-based fibre expert on behalf of the defence was not helpful to their case, and so was not put before Justice Hall."

The term 'not helpful' is not helpful. It doesn't necessarily mean damaging to the defence, it more often means that it doesn't add anything new.

The defence gets an expert to vet the prosecution expert report and respond to it. The defence report is given to the prosecution witnesses who can then amend their evidence to include anything interesting that's been raised. In essence the prosecuton witness will be lead on both the prosecution and defence evidence. It's only when there is glaring disagreement that the defence expert needs to give evidence.

Many (most?) times the defence expert doesn't need to give evidence. However, the defense expert can sit in court and listen to the prosecution evidence and brief defense counsel prior to the cross.

My guess in this case is that the defence listened to the prosecution witness and found he had covered all the points raised by the defence expert and so there was no need to use the defence expert as a witness.

 

[JezzaPerth]

A bit more insight into what was cut out of the video interview is here

https://ecourts.justice.wa.gov.au/e...ision?id=1a529a8a-c7d4-4184-ad2a-204e25c49447

 

[JezzaPerth]

So how come if Brads story with similarities to KK was deemed inadmissible before the trial because Yovich claimed just a coincidence, when his plee was changed to guilty on the eve of the trial, couldn't it then be deemed admissible?
No longer a coincidence but true
Especially with regards to other stories written?
Could be some secrets disclosed in them IMO

Here's What Justice Hall had to say. This was before BRE pled guilty to the Karrakatta offences.

166 The Chloe story does include a number of features that are common to the offences, in particular the Karrakatta offences. However, the story is different in many other important respects. The differences include the age of the victim (40 in the story) and the circumstances in which she is abducted (from the carpark of her home). It is also relevant to take into account that this is but one of many stories depicting a range of different scenarios. The significance of similarities in one such story is diminished by the range of scenarios that are depicted in all of them together. The possibility of innocent coincidental similarities cannot be discounted. In my view, no reasonable reading of the Chloe story could view it as being a record or depiction of any of the alleged offences. It contains no striking, unique or telling details that only the perpetrator would know. If, as alleged, it is autobiographical, it is curious that it has so many details that are unlike the Karrakatta offences. There would be no obvious reason to change details if the accused was seeking to hide these stories from others. This tends to heighten the significance of those differences. ​

​

167 There are important distinctions between the Chloe story and the propensity evidence referred to earlier in these reasons. Unlike the propensity evidence which related to acts of violence, the story is, on its face, a work of fiction that shows only an interest in the subject of violent sexual offending. The capacity of an interest to serve as an identifying characteristic is clearly less than actions. 156 Not every person with such an interest will act upon it and even the possibility of doing so may be largely speculative. Although the State does not rely on tendency reasoning, it is implicit in their argument that possession of this material is an identifying feature because there is said to be some high degree of correlation between such an interest and violent sexual offending of the type alleged here. But the evidence here falls far short of establishing any such correlation.​

 

[Mudman85]

Perth has almost no tides. Certainly nothing like most Eastern Staters experience. The story is quite different in the North West and North of WA where the tides and tidal currents can get quite large.,

Body transport near Perth is predominately driven by by surface wind. In the cases I am aware of bodies tend to be washed up on shore rather than driven out to sea.

Please don’t mention tides and prevailing winds! It was awhile ago and can’t recall if it was this site or another where We all had to tune out for about 6 months because of Julie Cutler tide charts and diagrams haha

 

[Mudman85]

Some say he is a psychopath, some say liar, some say he isn’t that smart but that seems like an act to me. Is it possible that he genuinely believes he didn’t do it? Plenty of lunatics go the other way and admit to crimes they didn’t commit but are convinced they did so maybe it can work the other way.

Some kind of psychotic state of mind at the time of the offenses.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Please don’t mention tides and prevailing winds! It was awhile ago and can’t recall if it was this site or another where We all had to tune out for about 6 months because of Julie Cutler tide charts and diagrams haha

This is the coroners report on a Mr Mills who fell of the back of a boat coming back from Rottnest after a Christmas party. Lots of stuff about movement of bodies.

https://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Mills finding.pdf

 

[one eyed spy]

That's not how it works. Barristers have to defend people they know are guilty all the time. Everyone is entitled to a fair trial and barristers take that seriously. Even Martin Bryant had a barrister.

You've taken my comment out of context. Wasn't to do with rights or defending a guilty person generally, it was specific to this case IF he'd admitted guilt on all charges to Yovich.
And I stand by what I said. A lawyer doesnt want a client admitting they're guilty if they intend to defend the charge & they'll tell them that, but they're also obliged to give them all their options too which includes a plea of guilty.

 

[dmorris30]

You've taken my comment out of context. Wasn't to do with rights or defending a guilty person generally, it was specific to this case IF he'd admitted guilt on all charges to Yovich.
And I stand by what I said. A lawyer doesnt want a client admitting they're guilty if they intend to defend the charge & they'll tell them that, but they're also obliged to give them all their options too which includes a plea of guilty.

They would still defend him. At least half the cases taken on by a defence barrister are guilty. It's up to the barrister to get them acquitted or reasonable doubt concluded on as many charges as possible and thereby a lesser sentence imposed.

 

[dmorris30]

Interesting comment on the West Australian website:
"The West Australian understands a report compiled by a UK-based fibre expert on behalf of the defence was not helpful to their case, and so was not put before Justice Hall."

This will be interesting to u Kingswood. In a medical malpractice law suit against a doctor, we sent the patient to a specialist who rang us and said the doctor ****ed up and he didnt want to have to put that in writing because it then must be admitted to the prosecution as well so we didn't get that written report.

 

[dmorris30]

Perth has almost no tides. Certainly nothing like most Eastern Staters experience. The story is quite different in the North West and North of WA where the tides and tidal currents can get quite large.,

Body transport near Perth is predominately driven by by surface wind. In the cases I am aware of bodies tend to be washed up on shore rather than driven out to sea.

If the body is naked - no clothes to bind limbs to the body - when decomposing the limbs would detach and body parts could go anywhere. That's why Lacey Peterson was found without her head and her baby had detached from her too. PS sharks LOVE decomposing flesh, even human decomposing flesh.

 

[dmorris30]

The further out you go, the less likely you would be to wash up anywhere.

He could have weighted the body down

 

[dmorris30]

Chilling story of Chloe ‘connects’ accused to murders

“They say you always remember your first. In my case, I consider my first is Chloe”. These are the chilling opening lines of an abduction and rape story allegedly found on Bradley Edwards’ computer.

thewest.com.au

Reading that article about the number of pr0n sites BRE had visited in the last year going up from something like 152 to 4000, looks like he was going to kill again. Or at least rape again.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Reading that article about the number of pr0n sites BRW had visited in the last year going up from something like 152 to 4000, looks like he was going to kill again. Or at least rape again.

The majority of young Australian males watch pr0n at least once a week.

• Frequent users of pornography are more likely to be male and well-educated
• The average age of first exposure to pornography is declining
• The median age of first viewing is 13 years for boys and 16 years for girls
• Young people identifying as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, intersex, and queer (GLBTIQ) watch pornography more frequently and from a younger age
• Interventions such as age verification and internet filtering software are not likely to be effective in preventing a motivated young person’s access to pornography
• There’s a correlation between the use of pornography and poor mental health.

https://www.burnet.edu.au/news/852_pornography_the_norm_for_young_australians

 

[dmorris30]

The majority of young Australian males watch pr0n at least once a week.

• Frequent users of pornography are more likely to be male and well-educated
• The average age of first exposure to pornography is declining
• The median age of first viewing is 13 years for boys and 16 years for girls
• Young people identifying as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, intersex, and queer (GLBTIQ) watch pornography more frequently and from a younger age
• Interventions such as age verification and internet filtering software are not likely to be effective in preventing a motivated young person’s access to pornography
• There’s a correlation between the use of pornography and poor mental health.

https://www.burnet.edu.au/news/852_pornography_the_norm_for_young_australians

A. He's not young.
B. His visits to pr0n sites had risen from 152 to 4000 in a year. That shows a significant increase. If he was watching pr0n once a week as per your list, it would equate to 52 visits a year.
C. He's not a young crossdresser. He's 50.

 

[Likeamystery]

Some say he is a psychopath, some say liar, some say he isn’t that smart but that seems like an act to me. Is it possible that he genuinely believes he didn’t do it? Plenty of lunatics go the other way and admit to crimes they didn’t commit but are convinced they did so maybe it can work the other way.

Some kind of psychotic state of mind at the time of the offenses.

Thinking if the crimes were premeditated that would suggest careful planning. I don't think people who suffer with mental health would have such good planning capability. It's more like he's as cunning as a snake.

My thoughts are the accused is well aware of what he’s done and over the years has had plenty of time to fabricate a good response. A well-rehearsed response, but he wasn’t able to think of every scenario WAPOL had on him. Thinking there might be a very long list of what he’s done – and has been looking over his shoulder for decades, I don’t suppose he’s had a decent night’s sleep for years!

From what I’ve heard on the court video’s the accused sounds to me like a sook. Thinking he might have been a whining child who possibly wasn’t dealt with properly. Perhaps he was mollycoddled. We might find his parents were aware he had problems but certainly not to the extent of what he’s been accused.

What fascinates me about the interrogation interview is how the accused came across so weak. I envisaged him being much more assertive and manlike. He had a good job and was someone who dealt with professional management. Personally, I think he comes across as being spineless.

Did anyone expect him to sound more like a blokey, bloke?

 

[dmorris30]

Thinking if the crimes were premeditated that would suggest careful planning. I don't think people who suffer with mental health would have such good planning capability. It's more like he's as cunning as a snake.

My thoughts are the accused is well aware of what he’s done and over the years has had plenty of time to fabricate a good response. A well-rehearsed response, but he wasn’t able to think of every scenario WAPOL had on him. Thinking there might be a very long list of what he’s done – and has been looking over his shoulder for decades, I don’t suppose he’s had a decent night’s sleep for years!

From what I’ve heard on the court video’s the accused sounds to me like a sook. Thinking he might have been a whining child who possibly wasn’t dealt with properly. Perhaps he was mollycoddled. We might find his parents were aware he had problems but certainly not to the extent of what he’s been accused.

What fascinates me about the interrogation interview is how the accused came across so weak. I envisaged him being much more assertive and manlike. He had a good job and was someone who dealt with professional management. Personally, I think he comes across as being spineless.

Did anyone expect him to sound more like a blokey, bloke?

I think he was terrified that they got him. If u were innocent u would be more angry.

 

[Aussie_boy]

I think he was terrified that they got him. If u were innocent u would be more angry.

After listening to it all this is what stuck out to me a little, more the disbelief that they finally caught him. I would literally be in shock like many people if I was arrested at all let alone for 3 murders whereas he seemed fairly calm considering the situation he was in.

 

[Kurve]

After listening to it all this is what stuck out to me a little, more the disbelief that they finally caught him. I would literally be in shock like many people if I was arrested at all let alone for 3 murders whereas he seemed fairly calm considering the situation he was in.

Those investigators/interrogators were pretty good, I could hear them turn the steel up and down in their voices. We've only heard the half of it imo.

I'm not suggesting after the TRG rammed his door in, commando rolled up the hallway, threw his bulk to the ground and had him all tied up in seconds that any of them laid a hand on him after that. They didn't have to imo, just yell at him a bit and he'd start crying.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Those investigators/interrogators were pretty good, I could hear them turn the steel up and down in their voices. We've only heard the half of it imo.

I'm not suggesting after the TRG rammed his door in, commando rolled up the hallway, threw his bulk to the ground and had him all tied up in seconds that any of them laid a hand on him after that. They didn't have to imo, just yell at him a bit and he'd start crying.

They probably threw flash-bangs and had the option of tear gas, but the limited amount of crying suggests they didn't use that.

I don't think they commando roll. They just get the the biggest two or three to charge the suspect and slam him to the ground. Think a slightly more gentle 1970's Rugby Union ruck.

 

[Aussie_boy]

Thinking if the crimes were premeditated that would suggest careful planning. I don't think people who suffer with mental health would have such good planning capability. It's more like he's as cunning as a snake.

My thoughts are the accused is well aware of what he’s done and over the years has had plenty of time to fabricate a good response. A well-rehearsed response, but he wasn’t able to think of every scenario WAPOL had on him. Thinking there might be a very long list of what he’s done – and has been looking over his shoulder for decades, I don’t suppose he’s had a decent night’s sleep for years!

From what I’ve heard on the court video’s the accused sounds to me like a sook. Thinking he might have been a whining child who possibly wasn’t dealt with properly. Perhaps he was mollycoddled. We might find his parents were aware he had problems but certainly not to the extent of what he’s been accused.

What fascinates me about the interrogation interview is how the accused came across so weak. I envisaged him being much more assertive and manlike. He had a good job and was someone who dealt with professional management. Personally, I think he comes across as being spineless.

Did anyone expect him to sound more like a blokey, bloke?

Wanting to call his parents straight away probably proves that he was mollycoddled. If I was in that situation, the last people I'd want to phone would be my parents.

 

[Kurve]

I don't think they commando roll. They just get the the biggest two or three to charge the suspect and slam him to the ground. Think a slightly more gentle 1970's Rugby Union ruck.

Oh, they don't do commando rolls? What about the guys on the roof that abseiled in through the windows?

It's the TRG!

Also, no I don't feel sorry for him.

 

[the dark knight]

Thinking if the crimes were premeditated that would suggest careful planning. I don't think people who suffer with mental health would have such good planning capability. It's more like he's as cunning as a snake.

My thoughts are the accused is well aware of what he’s done and over the years has had plenty of time to fabricate a good response. A well-rehearsed response, but he wasn’t able to think of every scenario WAPOL had on him. Thinking there might be a very long list of what he’s done – and has been looking over his shoulder for decades, I don’t suppose he’s had a decent night’s sleep for years!

From what I’ve heard on the court video’s the accused sounds to me like a sook. Thinking he might have been a whining child who possibly wasn’t dealt with properly. Perhaps he was mollycoddled. We might find his parents were aware he had problems but certainly not to the extent of what he’s been accused.

What fascinates me about the interrogation interview is how the accused came across so weak. I envisaged him being much more assertive and manlike. He had a good job and was someone who dealt with professional management. Personally, I think he comes across as being spineless.

Did anyone expect him to sound more like a blokey, bloke?

Spot on. I was thinking the exact same thing.