Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt4 - Beyond the Verdict
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Frankie1972
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Troy court was a magistrate who came up from Perth. Troy remember the photo we take together on the table in the court. That’s the one I posted on this chatWhen was Carmel Barbagallo first involved with the CSK case?
At least May 2018.
Huge team for alleged Claremont killer’s trial
A whole office floor has been set aside for what is already one of the biggest criminal cases in WA legal history.thewest.com.au
'Fri, 25 May 2018 12:07PM'
'Mr Quigley confirmed that such is the scale of the case, a “special secure floor has been leased” for the prosecution team, which is being led by Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions Carmel Barbagallo.'
My was Carmel and some detective on a video link from Perth going over my statement and my friendship with Troy
BFew
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I think the picture you are referring to was on another Crime forum you were once posting on, not this BigFooty one ?? Maybe I am mistaken.
You were not the only one with coincidental friendships/associations relating to this case.
BRE and his Crocs Masters Aussie rules 2007-2009 team WA Police associations being the other coincidental one of note.
You must get a bit sick of people thinking that you and Troy and/or Bradley Edwards must have known each other from way back.
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Frankie1972
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I only know Troy from 2015
Eaglette01
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Do you know if Troy told them about BRE fetish of wearing Kimonos...etc ?
Surely the parents knew too ?
Frankie1972
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I have never asked him
You ordinary Aussies, not the press (anywhere!)...
The detectives were certain I was the MM. Especially when I turned up at the Conti in early 2000s, lol. They were there socialising.. waiting for the csk to turn up. .
BFew
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Maybe there were WAPOL socialising in Claremont pubs and clubs every big night out there.
mrskafoops
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Is Troy also a Burger Boy? Also which photo? I am trying to keep up!
BFew
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No.
Probs only freshly caught NW fish or Roo burgers for Troy.
So, you don't know the guy inside Conti with the camera then
BFew
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It makes sense if one or more of the camera guys inside the Conti or Clubba were cops or working with the cops.
No I don't.
How do I know they were detectives? Cause I was standing next to them and when I turned my head away I heard one say to the other 3, ' it's him'. True what I say too. This was before the footage of MM was made public. I am a dead ringer for the MM too. It sure looks like me too. But apparently he has been identified too. Oh I have every intention of locating SS. This is true what I state. I only have two locations. One has been confirmed by a third party (group). But what about my other spot? This is on the line theory where I believe BRE's four beer stubbies still remain in situ with beer still in them. My spots could indicate four victims but re that thought I am just speculating.
BFew
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So when the End of the World comes, and the remotest capital city on this planet finally runs out of beer, your four golden throaty stubbies are going to be priceless. (forgive me if I suggested something similar before in the CSK threads)
Part two of the Claremont murders is on tonight. See how it goes. Some might want to watch the first episode on demand if they have a smart tv.
I noticed the burger boys appeared in last week's episode. Anything to make it interesting. But they were not called to give evidence cause one of them commented on two social media pages. BF & WS. That totally compromised what they saw and hence were totally dismissed.
I noticed the burger boys appeared in last week's episode. Anything to make it interesting. But they were not called to give evidence cause one of them commented on two social media pages. BF & WS. That totally compromised what they saw and hence were totally dismissed.
Kurve
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Part two of the Claremont murders is on tonight. See how it goes. Some might want to watch the first episode on demand if they have a smart tv.
I noticed the burger boys appeared in last week's episode. Anything to make it interesting. But they were not called to give evidence cause one of them commented on two social media pages. BF & WS. That totally compromised what they saw and hence were totally dismissed.
One of the burger boys got through to take the stand I think.
BFew
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Did he end up giving the stand back, or just fall over?
He did but kept the attached microphone. They were a bit speechless about that..Did he end up giving the stand back, or just fall over?
I've a legal background but am not legally qualified. I've been through Judge Hall's judgement carefully, (skimming through the modalities of the fibre evidence only). My observations, from a non-Antipodean pov, might be of some interest. I'll post these in two chats.
1. Remember that defence QC Yovich was taking instructions from BRE, a wicked and unscrupulous man who would stop at nothing to save his skin and has shown not a drop of remorse for these appalling crimes. Yovich played a bad hand very well indeed. It's hard to see what more he could have done to muddy the waters re DNA and fibre evidence. He went through every conceivable key testing quality issue to build a picture of ‘inefficiency’. IMHO, he was better overall than Carmen.
2. The judge was very fair, forensic cut no corners and didn't hesitate to eviscerate State evidence, e.g. BRE driving around offering lifts, even if Carmen effectively withdrew this plan of the case. Had BRE had the money for an appeal, it was going nowhere.
3. Despite the precedent from Karrakarra, I didn't agree with the judge that the murdered women were "abducted", a term he used several times. But on p. 611, he clarified that to mean that BRE had held Jane and Ciara against their will, having lured them into his car by deceit or violence. I don't believe it was the latter: violence in a public area with people in the vicinity, I don't think so.
P. 616: “It would be speculative to suggest that [JR and CG] must each have been lured into the car and later attacked”. It's equally speculative to assert the violence angle. Hence, I believe the three girls got into BRE's car willingly. Sarah possibly thought he was her taxi, for she was too close to clubs and people heading home to be snatched there. Jane disappeared without trace, which tells me she got into BRE's car willingly near the Conti. Who would have noticed a girl getting a lift there? Ciara was hitching: one BB witness says she was, other says he didn't see her do so. And why would she stop and speak to a strange car (going her way) if she wasn’t interested in a lift? We’ll never know, as BRE couldn’t admit any connection with them.
1. Remember that defence QC Yovich was taking instructions from BRE, a wicked and unscrupulous man who would stop at nothing to save his skin and has shown not a drop of remorse for these appalling crimes. Yovich played a bad hand very well indeed. It's hard to see what more he could have done to muddy the waters re DNA and fibre evidence. He went through every conceivable key testing quality issue to build a picture of ‘inefficiency’. IMHO, he was better overall than Carmen.
2. The judge was very fair, forensic cut no corners and didn't hesitate to eviscerate State evidence, e.g. BRE driving around offering lifts, even if Carmen effectively withdrew this plan of the case. Had BRE had the money for an appeal, it was going nowhere.
3. Despite the precedent from Karrakarra, I didn't agree with the judge that the murdered women were "abducted", a term he used several times. But on p. 611, he clarified that to mean that BRE had held Jane and Ciara against their will, having lured them into his car by deceit or violence. I don't believe it was the latter: violence in a public area with people in the vicinity, I don't think so.
P. 616: “It would be speculative to suggest that [JR and CG] must each have been lured into the car and later attacked”. It's equally speculative to assert the violence angle. Hence, I believe the three girls got into BRE's car willingly. Sarah possibly thought he was her taxi, for she was too close to clubs and people heading home to be snatched there. Jane disappeared without trace, which tells me she got into BRE's car willingly near the Conti. Who would have noticed a girl getting a lift there? Ciara was hitching: one BB witness says she was, other says he didn't see her do so. And why would she stop and speak to a strange car (going her way) if she wasn’t interested in a lift? We’ll never know, as BRE couldn’t admit any connection with them.
(Second part)
4. P. 57: judge notes that victims had no previous relationship with killer – this is correct on the evidence base presented. The MM video, about which there's no dispute that Jane clearly knew the man (and wasn't checking for his having a wedding ring!), wasn't introduced by State as that would destroy the ‘stranger’ aspect of the case against BRE. Further, even if the MM was an old neighbour of Jane's, I believe she was waiting for someone who may have been BRE as per the 'Bogsy' claim.
5. If taxi driver Krupnik had bothered his a*se to slow down a little and turn left into Stg Rd at the lights with Stg H, he would surely have seen Sarah to his right, opposite the phone box. One witness said Stg Rd was well lit up (at the bollard where she was waiting). How did Krupnik miss her? He stated he saw no one at the box but clearly didn’t glance opposite it as he raced along!!
I think the Sarah timeline was even tighter than the 15-minute the judge noted in his summary. 2.06, taxi booked; 2.07, driver starts off and Sarah crosses the road; 2.08, “car c. 200m behind" a witness in another car, but it didn’t follow them into Stg H. I’m sceptical of this car. Why would you notice a car: is less unusual than a girl on her own late at night. But if it *was BRE, the 2.08 time was very tight to take Sarah away, as taxi passed corner at 2.09! Too tight to be plausible, or was it? Driver notes that he saw the "original caller" was not in Stg Rd when he passed down it a few mins later – maybe feeling a bit guilty?
6. BRE and Sarah: as he has about a 1% of being alive at 88 when eligible for parole and 0% of ever being released, the only incentive to admit to the murder of Sarah *might be a modest enhancement of privileges and level of comfort. After all, you can't envisage him being moved to a low-security prison and definitely not one in preparation for release. Further, any gesture 20 years down the line wouldn't help him that much.
Sorry if I've moved into speculation myself in these two chats with comments on what this execrable person did.
4. P. 57: judge notes that victims had no previous relationship with killer – this is correct on the evidence base presented. The MM video, about which there's no dispute that Jane clearly knew the man (and wasn't checking for his having a wedding ring!), wasn't introduced by State as that would destroy the ‘stranger’ aspect of the case against BRE. Further, even if the MM was an old neighbour of Jane's, I believe she was waiting for someone who may have been BRE as per the 'Bogsy' claim.
5. If taxi driver Krupnik had bothered his a*se to slow down a little and turn left into Stg Rd at the lights with Stg H, he would surely have seen Sarah to his right, opposite the phone box. One witness said Stg Rd was well lit up (at the bollard where she was waiting). How did Krupnik miss her? He stated he saw no one at the box but clearly didn’t glance opposite it as he raced along!!
I think the Sarah timeline was even tighter than the 15-minute the judge noted in his summary. 2.06, taxi booked; 2.07, driver starts off and Sarah crosses the road; 2.08, “car c. 200m behind" a witness in another car, but it didn’t follow them into Stg H. I’m sceptical of this car. Why would you notice a car: is less unusual than a girl on her own late at night. But if it *was BRE, the 2.08 time was very tight to take Sarah away, as taxi passed corner at 2.09! Too tight to be plausible, or was it? Driver notes that he saw the "original caller" was not in Stg Rd when he passed down it a few mins later – maybe feeling a bit guilty?
6. BRE and Sarah: as he has about a 1% of being alive at 88 when eligible for parole and 0% of ever being released, the only incentive to admit to the murder of Sarah *might be a modest enhancement of privileges and level of comfort. After all, you can't envisage him being moved to a low-security prison and definitely not one in preparation for release. Further, any gesture 20 years down the line wouldn't help him that much.
Sorry if I've moved into speculation myself in these two chats with comments on what this execrable person did.
BFew
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I learnt a new word today.
Too many letters (9) to be much use in scrabble unless extending from the word "ex" or "le".
Means extremely bad or unpleasant.
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Eaglette01
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Last night in Perth on Ch70 Crime Investigators Australia - The Claremont Killer was aired. I cannot find it on catch up yet to post the link.
Tim Clarke featured as did Alison Fan - far more accurate doco to watch than the Ch7 two part Monday night shows.
I'm unsure why Ch7 aired the 3 programs so close together (3 programs in 8 days!) - one 2 part so inaccurate and 1 doco accurate.
Here is a link with Tim Clarke speaking about the Claremont murders from You Tube: (unsure if a link has been posted before)
Tim Clarke featured as did Alison Fan - far more accurate doco to watch than the Ch7 two part Monday night shows.
I'm unsure why Ch7 aired the 3 programs so close together (3 programs in 8 days!) - one 2 part so inaccurate and 1 doco accurate.
Here is a link with Tim Clarke speaking about the Claremont murders from You Tube: (unsure if a link has been posted before)
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mcpharlap
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I watched the crime inverstigation Australia show tonight on claremont , no new information but saw photos of Jane and Ciara I had never seen before.
Yes happen to catch it last night. I assume back on catch up soon too as was taken down as was aired last night. No new information but I did see photos of Jane and Ciara I had never seen before. Really hope the Karma train does get to BRE runs him over again and again. Like everyone would love to know where Sarah is but that information is never come willingly from the Only person who knows for sure.
Yes happen to catch it last night. I assume back on catch up soon too as was taken down as was aired last night. No new information but I did see photos of Jane and Ciara I had never seen before. Really hope the Karma train does get to BRE runs him over again and again. Like everyone would love to know where Sarah is but that information is never come willingly from the Only person who knows for sure.
