Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[PaulSubetro]

Don’t forget that Edwards is going to be on the stand for a long time & all this will be brought up at some point with him.
Doesn’t matter if he has been placed there, they’ll want to try to get to him to trick him up & weight of evidence & time on the dock might do that.

I would be extremely surprised if he testified.

 

[yodellinhank]

No, but there is a small possibility something could’ve thrown him off if somebody took some action to investigate the source of these terrifying screams. As it turns out, nobody wanted to. Nobody called the police at the time these events/screams occurred either. Put yourself in the situation and ask yourself what you would do? The answer could be one of many things. I know what I would do.

The witness did investigate the screams. He couldn't see anything and then seen the reflection of a car driving away.

What would you have done, chased the car down parkour style like Liam Neeson in Taken, or perhaps you'd whistle over your psychic horse and save the day wild west style?

 

[Kurve]

I would be extremely surprised if he testified.

He could make an unsworn statement from the dock where he can't be put under cross but judge only, it wont make any difference to him.

A show of remorse for the two crimes he already pleaded guilty to? Maybe.

 

[Bring back Drum]

I very much doubt he will be on the stand. Ever. His counsel won’t allow it.

I’m hoping at some stage he has to.

 

[Chameleon75]

Although logical and possible, there would also be a logical outcome if that occurred.......ie reports, termination etc

you assume
1) HH completed an investigation themselves instead of holding him until police arrived. I give this 0% chance of happening.
2) HH knew he was from telecom and on duty. Without an investigation/ inquiry I give this 0% chance.
3) The police called Telecom. I give this 0% chance of happening if he pleaded guilty.

Police do police work. They don't baby sit, call mums or employers.

So your hypothesis is that despite an offender being apprehended by hospital security the hospital does nothing.

1. Investigation not required, are you saying the hospital security would not file an incident report? That the hospital would ignore their duty of care? That staff don’t talk and in a unionised work site, workers safety wouldn’t be raised?

2. Apprehended in uniform by hospital security, But they don’t know he’s from Telstra?

3. So police don’t investigate until it reaches court? That’s bizarre, are you saying the police prosecutor will front up to the magistrate without being provided a brief?

Your points are based on both the hospital and police taking zero action. It’s implausible.

 

[MightyFreo]

At this stage there are no confirmed witness accounts of screaming on the night CG vanished... If the screams are all determined to be connected, The alleged most likely changed his MO, leaving CG with even less of a chance to receive assistance by anyone nearby.

Meanwhile, the suspected SS screams are in the middle of the 'burbs, and her location remains unknown.

Was any areas close by, such as Bold Park or Kings Park ever searched in relation to this case?

Hi I'm a newbie!!
Wondering if the areas near Mosman Park where the screams were heard were searched?
There is an area of dense bush where Wellington St meets Stirling Highway between the road and rail line. I've often driven past thinking if anyone wanted to get off the road there is a spot where you wouldn't get seen there. A fenced off area with gates at the back hides a drainage ditch or whatever. Right in front near the road at the lights is a sign saying Optus communications- do not dig. Just a hunch

 

[Countessa]

How's all these people who've heard "blood curdling" "terrifying" screams from a female like they've never heard before in the dead of the night...AND DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!! Disgraceful. Some of these girls could be alive if somebody had disturbed the killer in the moment by way of movement and making noise/yelling out towards the location of the screams. Always check when you hear something out of the ordinary like that because bad things do happen sometimes as this case can attest to.

Exactly! Recently I heard blood curdling female screams coming from my neighbours' house (along with some workmen who were working on the road in front of the house) and she was screaming "No, no, no get away from me!!) and we all decided to call the police straight away. Police spent over 2 hours at the premises. Simply cannot understand why people would not call the police if they hear a woman is screaming hysterically, obviously needing help, even if they thought it was a domestic argument. No excuse not to.

 

[PaulSubetro]

Hi I'm a newbie!!
Wondering if the areas near Mosman Park where the screams were heard were searched?
There is an area of dense bush where Wellington St meets Stirling Highway between the road and rail line. I've often driven past thinking if anyone wanted to get off the road there is a spot where you wouldn't get seen there. A fenced off area with gates at the back hides a drainage ditch or whatever. Right in front near the road at the lights is a sign saying Optus communications- do not dig. Just a hunch

They searched a 5km radius of Claremont looking for the kills site and couldn't find anything.

 

[Pacman Carney]

I’m hoping at some stage he has to.

“Has to”... doesn’t work like that. He never has to. Can’t be called by the prosecution or the judge. He only testifies if he wants to. Then he gets crossed by the prosecutor. Won’t happen.

 

[Power Raid]

So your hypothesis is that despite an offender being apprehended by hospital security the hospital does nothing.

Yes. Do you think security guards have the power to interrogate and investigate?

He would have been held under citizens arrest until the police arrived. HH management would have completed a review of the INCIDENT but that probably did not include hBREs name or who his employer was.

Police do this and they do not pass on these details to HH, Telecom or BREs mum.

1. Investigation not required, are you saying the hospital security would not file an incident report? That the hospital would ignore their duty of care? That staff don’t talk and in a unionised work site, workers safety wouldn’t be raised?

Yes they would fill a report. but that incident report would be based on facts represented by the victim and those involved.

Did they know his name, that he was employed by Telecom AND a contractor at HH? I'd suggest in the heat of the moment, that is the last thing you'd be thinking in a public area open to all.

2. Apprehended in uniform by hospital security, But they don’t know he’s from Telstra?

if he is just in King-Gee work wear, then he is just an ordinary blue collar worker. If he had a work logo, was he doing work on site? HH is huge and wouldn't know their left hand from the right.............especially in the whole 10 minutes until the police arrived.

3. So police don’t investigate until it reaches court? That’s bizarre, are you saying the police prosecutor will front up to the magistrate without being provided a brief?

No

The police wouldn't investigate EVER if he admits guilt in the police intetrview and the statement marries the victims and the witness.

Police don't waste resources on investigations of petty crimes when the person admits guilt.

Your points are based on both the hospital and police taking zero action. It’s implausible.

No, I believe they did take action and the court process attests to that.

What I am saying is perhaps HH did not appreciate he was on site as a contractor. As a result no formal report was provided to TELECOM LEGAL AND TELECOM HR AND TELECOM BOARD. As that is where a complaint would have gone based on the seriousness of the offence. We know that did not happen as there is no official Telecom report.

Or perhaps HH like yourself were under the impression the police call employers, mums and post on myspace. It just doesn't happen that way for good reasons including abuse of power, segregation of power and to avoid prejudice before the courts.


Alternatively HR, the board and the legal team of Telecom conspired in a cover up. Which is more plausible?

 

[Catcher In The Rye]

I'm thinking it was regardless that the HH attack wasn't placed on his personnel file - not many people would have known the entire details. Once his name was on the vehicle list, searching the police data base would have revealed a prior conviction (HH 1990). Seemingly, Telstra omitted his name, accidently on purpose.

It makes me wonder how many other crooks worked there.

The vehicle list and who they were logged out to should have been continually updated. A company with so many vehicles needed to know where they were at any given time. Not to mention the safety issues e.g. broken down in the bush, bitten by a snake, which were due for service etc. The lists and logs would have been subpoenaed which means supply within a week unless subpoenaed party has a need to ask for more time.

There was mention in the past that BRE was put up a level after HH, this seems par for the course. If the company decides to keep you on you are supervised for a period of time then pushed up the pay scale and promoted.

 

[Sepai]

How's all these people who've heard "blood curdling" "terrifying" screams from a female like they've never heard before in the dead of the night...AND DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!! Disgraceful. Some of these girls could be alive if somebody had disturbed the killer in the moment by way of movement and making noise/yelling out towards the location of the screams. Always check when you hear something out of the ordinary like that because bad things do happen sometimes as this case can attest to.

The witness did investigate the screams. He couldn't see anything and then seen the reflection of a car driving away.

What would you have done, chased the car down parkour style like Liam Neeson in Taken, or perhaps you'd whistle over your psychic horse and save the day wild west style?

What would you have done Yodellinhank?

 

[Countessa]

No doubt if it were you in their place it all would've played out differently and we wouldn't be talking about a serial killer, we'd all be lauding the hero Franko Armani.

But you weren't there. You dropped the ball and you've let yourself down. You've let everybody down.

I think that's very unfair and agree that people should call the police immediately should they hear blood curdling screams coming from a woman who may be in fear of her life, whether it's a domestic or not. Wish someone had called the police when I was being beaten up by a man and screaming!

 

[Power Raid]

Exactly! Recently I heard blood curdling female screams coming from my neighbours' house (along with some workmen who were working on the road in front of the house) and she was screaming "No, no, no get away from me!!) and we all decided to call the police straight away. Police spent over 2 hours at the premises. Simply cannot understand why people would not call the police if they hear a woman is screaming hysterically, obviously needing help, even if they thought it was a domestic argument. No excuse not to.

fight or flight

some people get paralysed by confrontation. Fear that they may get hurt, if they get involved.

We should introduce french law, where you face criminal conviction for not meeting your civil duties as a reasonable person would have done by helping.

 

[Countessa]

fight or flight

some people get paralysed by confrontation. Fear that they may get hurt, if they get involved.

We should introduce franch law, where you face criminal conviction for not meeting your civil duties as a reasonable person would have done by helping.

Yes, it's REALLY not that difficult to phone the police if someone sounds as if they are in danger. I believe it's everyone's duty if they don't they are enablers.

 

[Ripley]

"Police don't waste resources on investigations of petty crimes when the person admits guilt."

Hmmm, but they will waste precious resources hounding LW for years who was guilty of.....Nothing. Yet BRE and his petty crime went on to brutally kidnap, rape and is the alleged CSK.

 

[Kurve]

"Police don't waste resources on investigations of petty crimes when the person admits guilt."

We still don't know why BRE had to do a sex offenders course for that 'petty crime of common assault' either. There's more to that story. imo.

I'm not sure we were supposed to know about the sex offenders course, all of the press missed it or weren't allowed to publish it.

I found it in a Supreme Court document days after it was aired in court. It wouldn't be the first time suppressed information accidentally found it's way into the public domain.

It wasn't until the sex offenders course was raised in this thread that the press headlined with it, two days later iirc so they were sitting on it until then.

 

[Franko Armani]

The witness did investigate the screams. He couldn't see anything and then seen the reflection of a car driving away.

What would you have done, chased the car down parkour style like Liam Neeson in Taken, or perhaps you'd whistle over your psychic horse and save the day wild west style?

anything would’ve helped Hank, if not the girls then the investigation. And it has absolutely nothing to do with being a hero. This is not an action film. People like BRE are the biggest cowards of anybody in the world. A male acting to disrupt someone of his character would encounter no retaliation whatsoever - he would simply flee with a whimper like the insignificant rodent that he is. Cancel your Foxtel subscription and get out and live in the real world mate and thanks for sharing your character traits when nobody asked for them.

 

[Countessa]

Hi I'm a newbie!!
Wondering if the areas near Mosman Park where the screams were heard were searched?
There is an area of dense bush where Wellington St meets Stirling Highway between the road and rail line. I've often driven past thinking if anyone wanted to get off the road there is a spot where you wouldn't get seen there. A fenced off area with gates at the back hides a drainage ditch or whatever. Right in front near the road at the lights is a sign saying Optus communications- do not dig. Just a hunchView attachment 792785

Buckland Hill was always a very creepy place with tunnels and I remember when we were growing up our parents wouldn't allow us go there because girls had been abused and attacked there in the past. The housing estate was very new back in the early '90's and development not nearly as extensive as it is now. Someone I knew had just built their brand new house there in 1994.

 

[Likeamystery]

imagine if he is found not guilty of the murders and just gets 7 years for rape, with the rest of the time for other crimes served concurrently.

With time served and good behaviour, he could be out very soon.


I don't think it is a risk though.

Not a good thought Power Raid, but as you've raised the subject. As he's got a prior conviction surly they're not obliged to give him the minimum sentence.

Would it be more likely he'd get sentenced for KK rapes - two rapes.

 

[Ripley]

We still don't know why BRE had to do a sex offenders course for that 'petty crime of common assault' either. There's more to that story. imo.

I'm not sure we were supposed to know about the sex offenders course, all of the press missed it or weren't allowed to publish it.

I found it in a Supreme Court document days after it was aired in court. It wouldn't be the first time suppressed information accidentally found it's way into the public domain.

Nice! This whole case highlights the fact that assaults against women at the very first instant are not dealt with seriously or adequately. If they were, perhaps the escalation of his activities could have been prevented.

 

[Sepai]

The vehicle list and who they were logged out to should have been continually updated. A company with so many vehicles needed to know where they were at any given time. Not to mention the safety issues e.g. broken down in the bush, bitten by a snake, which were due for service etc. The lists and logs would have been subpoenaed which means supply within a week unless subpoenaed party has a need to ask for more time.

There was mention in the past that BRE was put up a level after HH, this seems par for the course. If the company decides to keep you on you are supervised for a period of time then pushed up the pay scale and promoted.

HH was a Repatriation General Hospital till 1994. And like Telecom a Government or State Government asset. The Code of Conduct would be the Public Service. After BRE incident in 1990 there would have been a Police Report. That would be still on file today. A security Incident report in chronological order. That's handed to the HH Administration to be part of the Police investigation. Telecom would have been notified asap about the assault. We don't know if BRE was stood down while the assault was being dealt with by the Courts. The judge gave BRE a Spent conviction. He also made BRE do a Sexual Offenders course. There would have been a plea for a Spent conviction to protect his job. BRE was charged with common assault. Made to do a Sexual Offenders course? Data bases back then were nothing like today.

 

[Ripley]

HH was a Repatriation General Hospital till 1994. And like Telecom a Government or State Government asset. The Code of Conduct would be the Public Service. After BRE incident in 1990 there would have been a Police Report. That would be still on file today. A security Incident report in chronological order. That's handed to the HH Administration to be part of the Police investigation. Telecom would have been notified asap about the assault. We don't know if BRE was stood down while the assault was being dealt with by the Courts. The judge gave BRE a Spent conviction. He also made BRE do a Sexual Offenders course. There would have been a plea for a Spent conviction to protect his job. BRE was charged with common assault. Made to do a Sexual Offenders course? Data bases back then were nothing like today.

YES! Outstanding.

 

[Countessa]

HH was a Repatriation General Hospital till 1994. And like Telecom a Government or State Government asset. The Code of Conduct would be the Public Service. After BRE incident in 1990 there would have been a Police Report. That would be still on file today. A security Incident report in chronological order. That's handed to the HH Administration to be part of the Police investigation. Telecom would have been notified asap about the assault. We don't know if BRE was stood down while the assault was being dealt with by the Courts. The judge gave BRE a Spent conviction. He also made BRE do a Sexual Offenders course. There would have been a plea for a Spent conviction to protect his job. BRE was charged with common assault. Made to do a Sexual Offenders course? Data bases back then were nothing like today.

That's correct, it was a government Repatriation Hospital and it didn't become a private hospital until 1994 when Ramsay Health purchased it.

 

[Likeamystery]

I think that's very unfair and agree that people should call the police immediately should they hear blood curdling screams coming from a woman who may be in fear of her life, whether it's a domestic or not. Wish someone had called the police when I was being beaten up by a man and screaming!

The fact that screams were heard gives us a bit more insight. Whilst alive, the accused drove JR a considerable distance.