Colin Sylvia to Fremantle

[HBF]

Could be an inspired choice by Fremantle or a disaster.
Will be reserving my judgement on this one.

 

[daniel_4tw]

I feel as though Lyon gets blamed for Watters being a shit coach.

When Lyon was coach, Saints were still paying finals. He leaves, and Saints fall in a hole. Surely some blame has to go to the current coach, who was in charge of the list during the previous (two?) trading periods.

 

[strobe00]

The experienced fringe player top up has officially begun at Freo. You blokes had better hope and pray you win a flag next year, because if and when you start to slide, all you will be left with is veterans, no hopers like Colleen, and a bunch of untried and untested rookies and kids.

Better start warming up for my "I told you so" dance, should be ready by about halfway through 2015.

I doubt Sylvia will end up a fringe player. He was one of the top players at his existing club. If he buys in he'll be lock for our best 22.

Guys like Peake and Polo were fringe players at their original club, let alone at the Saints. There's a fair difference in quality between those guys and Sylvia.

Time will tell, but bringing Danyle Pearce into the team worked nicely this year. Doing the same for Sylvia next year is promising at this point.

 

[The Goon]

Dees will get a pick 2 behind what we get for Buddy.

Go cry into your premiership cup mate.

 

[strobe00]

Bender571 said: ↑

Our draftees since Lyon took over have played more games than the other top 4 teams combined​

Bender571 is that for draftees from the ND, or have you included PSDs/FAs etc? If the former, then that is a very pleasant surprise.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

And that ladies and gentlemen is how much this idiot knows about Fremantle. Neale/Sutcliffe/Spurr are all second year players that played in the grand final. Crozier & Sheridan were played throughout the year, both second year players. Josh Simpson was an emergency a few times, hes a first year player. Strong knowledge you have there, are you related to Caroline Wilson?

You can throw all the personal insults you like - just stating my view.

Lyon did a number on St Kildas list in the pursuit of a flag, and IMO he'll do the same at Freo - he's not a list builder, he works within extremely tight structures and disciplines and selects players based on only their potential ability to execute that, without a view to the future.

If you win a flag, brilliant. If not, be prepared for some long term pain.

 

[Riccardo11]

I doubt Sylvia will end up a fringe player. He was one of the top players at his existing club. If he buys in he'll be lock for our best 22.

Guys like Peake and Polo were fringe players at their original club, let alone at the Saints. There's a fair difference in quality between those guys and Sylvia.

Time will tell, but bringing Danyle Pearce into the team worked nicely this year. Doing the same for Sylvia next year is promising at this point.

I was more thinking along the lines of Schneider, Dempster, King, et al, who were all Premiership players, if I'm not mistaken.

Playing devils advocate for a sec, Sylvia may have been a pretty good player at Melbourne, but Melbourne is, to put it mildly, a bit of a rabble. It's like being a man with one eye in a country of blind men, really.

 

[Westerberg]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, if you take a second to look at St Kildas draft history, in the first couple of years under Lyon, we recruited more than a few players via drafts and trades who went on to be first choice selections.

Sorry 'bout it!

Oh I see, our drafting of promising youngsters who are playing regular games is yet further proof that we will be screwed in a few years?

 

[strobe00]

Another failed top 20 Melbourne pick. Since 2001...(players still at the club in bold)

2001 Molan (who)
2002 Bell (14, pick traded in for Woewodin)
2002 Smith (who)
2003 Sylvia (gone)
2003 McLean (gone)
2004 Bate (delisted)
2005 Jones (finally a success)
2006 Frawley (success)
2007 Morton (delisted)
2007 Grimes (success, picked traded for Johnstone, failed number one pick from 2000)
2008 Watts (underperformed so far)
2008 Blease (poor so far)
2009 Scully (gone)
2009 Trengove (ok so far)
2009 Gysberts (gone)
2009 Tapscott (gone?? not sure, hasnt done much)
2010 Cook (quit)
2011 first round pick traded for Mitch Clark (injured most of the past two seasons)
2012 Toumpas (ok in debut year)
2012 first round pick traded for Chris Dawes (injured half the year)

That is shocking.

Good thing they still have a heap of first rounders (or in Viney's and Hogan's case... would have been) in their list.

 

[Bender571]

Bender571 said: ↑

Our draftees since Lyon took over have played more games than the other top 4 teams combined​

Bender571 is that for draftees from the ND, or have you included PSDs/FAs etc? If the former, then that is a very pleasant surprise.

Included national, pre-season and rookie, so players like Tippet, Osbourne, Dawson count. Didn't include FA or rookie promotions.

 

[Riccardo11]

Oh I see, our drafting of promising youngsters who are playing regular games is yet further proof that we will be screwed in a few years?

All I'm saying is that St Kilda did the same thing, so there is no guarantees that you are safe from the slide at this point.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I also wonder how much longer Freo fans will continue to delude themselves that Lyon is capable of continually building and managing a sustainable list.

They'll be St Kilda in four years, bet that.

Would wanna win the flag next year - then it'll be worth it.

Lyon isn't responsible for Freo's list management.

 

[leeloo]

You can throw all the personal insults you like - just stating my view.

Lyon did a number on St Kildas list in the pursuit of a flag, and IMO he'll do the same at Freo - he's not a list builder, he works within extremely tight structures and disciplines and selects players based on only their potential ability to execute that, without a view to the future.

If you win a flag, brilliant. If not, be prepared for some long term pain.

Lyon may have been in charge of list management at St Kilda, he is not at Fremantle.

 

[strobe00]

I was more thinking along the lines of Schneider, Dempster, King, et al, who were all Premiership players, if I'm not mistaken.

Playing devils advocate for a sec, Sylvia may have been a pretty good player at Melbourne, but Melbourne is, to put it mildly, a bit of a rabble. It's like being a man with one eye in a country of blind men, really.

Dempster has been pretty handy, wouldn't you think? Schneider was pretty handy during your premiership tilt, but has dropped away since.

Lovett might have been also if he hadn't done what he did.

It's true that Freo have picked up players from other clubs over the last couple of years. But we've been picking one up every year for the last several.

It's possible we'll grab an extra one this year (already got Sylvia so fingers crossed the extra will be a KPF). Time will tell, but we've been drafting some pretty promising young players. St Kilda's drafting record across the period you mention was pretty poor. Hopefully our list management strategy (which isn't controlled by Lyon) will be more successful.

One advantage with Sylvia being at Freo is there'll be a bunch of players with enough eyes, and they'll be telling him where to go and what to do. That sounds a lot less challenging to me.

 

[Purple Suit]

You can throw all the personal insults you like - just stating my view.

Lyon did a number on St Kildas list in the pursuit of a flag, and IMO he'll do the same at Freo - he's not a list builder, he works within extremely tight structures and disciplines and selects players based on only their potential ability to execute that, without a view to the future.

If you win a flag, brilliant. If not, be prepared for some long term pain.

Do you think when Hird comes back in twelve months he'll start up another PED program or do you think he will have learned from past mistakes?

 

[freo1]

People here seem to either forget or not realise that Lyon is not responsible for the list at Fremantle. He is simply a member of a panel who decide on who the club recruits and who we let go. Lyon explained this earlier in the year - basically the club has a List Management model which Brad Lloyd and Chris Bond oversea. They identify the talent and players available to suit that model. From that point those players are presented to the panel and discussed and decided upon. The senior coach's opinion is certianly valued highly, but it it not the be all and end all. I would assume most clubs are similarly set up to this these days, so to put list management on the senior coach is pretty niaive in this day and age.

 

[Ando727]

Ultimately it comes down to whether he buys into Lyon's gameplan or not.

Sylvia is one of the laziest players ever to pull on a jumper. He's in for a rude shock when Ross gets hold of him.

 

[mike91]

You can throw all the personal insults you like - just stating my view.

Lyon did a number on St Kildas list in the pursuit of a flag, and IMO he'll do the same at Freo - he's not a list builder, he works within extremely tight structures and disciplines and selects players based on only their potential ability to execute that, without a view to the future.

If you win a flag, brilliant. If not, be prepared for some long term pain.

Except Lyon doesn't control the list. He's blooded youngsters and Fremantle made it clear when they hired him that we will continue to rebuild our list. Fremantle wont end up like St Kilda. Only about 5 players are considered 'old' on their list.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Lyon may have been in charge of list management at St Kilda, he is not at Fremantle.

Further to this, it is very clear no one is telling Chris Bond how to do his job.

Fremantle are following the same pattern they have for the last few seasons. Look to snag an AFL listed player at low cost. Play youngsters who show promise at lower levels. Draft carefully based on perceived best available (Darling the glaring oversight). If things continue as they have, identify at least one mature age gem who can step into a role immediately.

Probably one of the most deliberate and consistent list management models over the last few years, which has worked well, especially in regards to building their midfield and drafting quality mature picks. Is it the best however, probably not but it's up there and Lyon certainly won't be given free reign by the Steve's to change a thing.

In fact, he has been quizzed on just this issue and stated that Bond was undeniably the man in charge.

 

[leeloo]

Sylvia is one of the laziest players ever to pull on a jumper. He's in for a rude shock when Ross gets hold of him.

I also wondered about this, but surely Ross's reputation precedes him? Sylvia would know what's in store for him?

 

[Ando727]

I also wondered about this, but surely Ross's reputation precedes him? Sylvia would know what's in store for him?

He would in theory, but I'm not sure he's prepared for the reality of it. He'll be in for a baptism of fire and we'll just have to wait and see if he can adapt. 10 years of laziness is hard to suddenly change.

 

[leeloo]

Further to this, it is very clear no one is telling Chris Bond how to do his job.

Fremantle are following the same pattern they have for the last few seasons. Look to snag an AFL listed player at low cost. Play youngsters who show promise at lower levels. Draft carefully based on perceived best available (Darling the glaring oversight). If things continue as they have, identify at least one mature age gem who can step into a role immediately.

Probably one of the most deliberate and consistent list management models over the last few years, which has worked well, especially in regards to building their midfield and drafting quality mature picks. Is it the best however, probably not but it's up there and Lyon certainly won't be given free reign by the Steve's to change a thing.

In fact, he has been quizzed on just this issue and stated that Bond was undeniably the man in charge.

Yep, there was a 6PR interview where he explained how the model worked. He said he has input, as does the other senior assistant coaches, but the responsibility lies with Bond. Our head recruiter position was moved to Victoria and we started the development academy. And the list management model was put in place. This was set up way before Lyon arrived and hasn't changed.

 

[hench]

I've always been of the belief that on a top 4 side Sylvia would be a gun. Guess we are going to find out.

 

[RedLegs#5]

Freo would hope he won't be as lazy for them. Maybe he'll work well if given simple instructions. Am not gutted about this one.

 

[markm106]

Should be a good pick up. Will provide a midfield option and a forward option. Interested to see how he goes in a top side.