Collingwood never travel? Look at the FACTS

[MaccasNeighbour]

Facts are that Collingwood get a soft ride from the AFL, pretty much anyone who isn't involved with Collingwood acknowledges that.

Facts are that despite this soft ride they still can't win a flag.

 

[understudy]

Originally posted by MaccasNeighbour


f****ing Brisbane. 600k extra on the cap. take it off em and flag is ours!

 

[FIGJAM]

Re: Re: Re: Collingwood never travel? Look at the FACTS

Originally posted by Falchoon
Aren't we forecasting a profit this year? How much did the Collingwood home game contribute to that? In a random draw we'd have a home game v you in 3 out of every 4 seasons, considering there was not one this year it'd be your turn to play us away.

True, when they realise the average fan is more interested in a sporting (in all forms of the word) contest they'll be closer to perfect.


and over the last 10 years?

Profit, yes, but you don't want more? Yes, you should have a home game against us, but you know full well that the AFL are liable to do something stoopid and you felt the need to speak up to ensure a home game against us.

The AFL are well aware that home games against us, significantly benefit the smaller Victorian clubs. Again, either by direct requests or by implication, the AFL know that we substantially benefit these clubs and would prefer to play us away here, as opposed to a game against an interstater, even if we didn't utilise our only request to have four interstate trips only.

The AFL like to ensure the survival of the smaller clubs, whilst maximising its profit. Collingwood playing away interstate usually doesn't do either!

As to your second quoted paragraph, I agree. The sooner a random draw, with each team playing each other twice is arranged, the better! Same with the abolition of the salary cap (with more appropriate tools implemented).

And to your last sentence, yes, over the last 10 years, we have had an above average interstate record. Even when we were crap or in decline.

 

[Munga]

Originally posted by The Scarecrow
Why is Collingwood being blamed for the draw?

I think its more that the Collingwood supporters are blind to the fact that they always get an advantage each year. I know its not YOUR fault, but not admitting that its unfair makes SOME maggie fans w@#kers. Sorry, but true!

 

[FIGJAM]

Originally posted by Munga
I think its more that the Collingwood supporters are blind to the fact that they always get an advantage each year. I know its not YOUR fault, but not admitting that its unfair makes SOME maggie fans w@#kers. Sorry, but true!

We appreciate that the blockbusters help us financially.

However, the AFL aren't doing it to benefit us (nor Essendon, nor Carlton), they schedule games to benefit themselves and themselves only. If you fail to recognise this, then you're a w@#ker. Sorry, but true!

It's funny though, in 2001 we had a particularly difficult run, but in hindsight, it wasn't much different to what we have this year. Amazing how being one of the better teams changes some opposition supporter's opinions and makes them whine like sows!

Essendon's draw ain't much different to ours, but noone's bringing up their name...hmmm!!

 

[Lonie_from_50]

Originally posted by guess_who
Let's look at the facts shall we Collingwood and Essendon are the two biggest Victorian drawing clubs. therefore they are not going to travel as much as other teams because they are keeping teams like Bulldogs in business. As for the post, I was going to one very similar it's a very good point. Clubs like Melbourne are complaining that they play in Brisbane ( A Home game that they decided to sell) then play away in perth the next week. Seems only fair to me, One home Followed by and away game

I think that is all that is needed to be said

 

[Joffaboy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Collingwood never travel? Look at the FACTS

Originally posted by FIGJAM
The link works fine Liarboy.

http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=114156

The second article from a reitterated the AFL spiel.

The link doesn't work and dont call me a liar tool. The thing comes up blank RRRRSSSShole.

How can Waldron state that he was happy to play Collingwood at home, if the draw wasn't even out yet? The article was from August. Why did he mention Collingwood at all??

The only quote from Waldron on AFL site just states he is happy to play Essendon and Collingwood at home AFTER the draw was out.

Eitherway, my initial contention that we are used by the lower clubs and the AFL stands. It is well supported and well reasoned.

Supported and well reasoned? Rubbish? It was arrogant and dismissive. Using provocative phrases like St.Kilda went to the AFL on their knees begging is well reasoned is it? Especially when it isn't true. Then a tirade about other clubs wanting to "steal" your traditions. Mabye emotive blatherings are reasoned in your socio-eco standing pal, but in serious discussion you sound like a child.

I suggest you learn how to do the same, before calling people names, which as MarkT rightly pointed out, are ironic in nature!

Great a lectrure in deportment from someone who denigrated other clubs, who calls an alternate view a troll and then calls me a liar. What a hypocritical position you take. And quoting MarkT, the Collingwood voice of reason.

Do you understand what the word irony means Figjam? I only ask this because you didn't understand the definition of "tradition". Are you from the Alanis Morissette school of irony definitions

 

[Munga]

I'll repeat myself....I don't care if you have an easy fixture or a hard one, IT IS BECAUSE MAGGIE FANS DON'T ADMIT TO THEIR FIXTURES BEING UNFAIR!!! So if the saints had a s!@t easy fixture, I would say "We have an easy fixture!". However some one eyed maggie fans don't, in which they are w@#nkers! Don't make me explain it again!

 

[Zeke]

We have an easy fixture that was chosen for us, not by us. It was chosen for AFL benefit, not Collingwood benefit. Any resultant Collingwood benefit is merely a byproduct of the overall AFL benefit.

 

[Joffaboy]

Originally posted by FIGJAM
We appreciate that the blockbusters help us financially.

Finally.

However, the AFL aren't doing it to benefit us (nor Essendon, nor Carlton), they schedule games to benefit themselves and themselves only. If you fail to recognise this, then you're a w@#ker. Sorry, but true!

It is mutally beneficial. But you are right. if the heavyweights were the Kangaroos and Geelong they would have the Collingwood and Essendon draw.

It's funny though, in 2001 we had a particularly difficult run, but in hindsight, it wasn't much different to what we have this year. Amazing how being one of the better teams changes some opposition supporter's opinions and makes them whine like sows!

As i have stated on numerous occassions FIGJAM, I have no problems with Collingwood getting the draw they have, 4 interstate trips is about average.

What irks me is the arrogant attitude that some Wobble fans have toward the Vic teams that are disadvantaged by your favourable draw.

Because, as you rightly say, the AFL does the draw to maximise revenue for the AFL, they should compensate teams such as Melbourne (not St.Kilda as we have never asked for AFL support, and the draw we have is fair and reasonable, and we are not disadvantaged by the Wobbles or Bummers draw) so they can stay viable and give their supporters something to hope for in the future.

I'll give you an example. When the Saints moved to the then Colonial stadium we had 17,000 members and could only win two games. We did not deserve any preferential treatment from the AFL. Three years on we have a record membership,(25,000) 20% increase in gates to an average of 32,000, a turnaround of 4.2 million dollars and a $600k profit. On field we have begun to move up the ladder.
Now these figures are not in the same league as Collingwood or Essendon or Adelaide, however the indicators mentioned have menat that next season we do get some preferential treatment in the guise of Easter Monday, and home games against Essendon and Collingwood.
Melbourne fans have to work to improve the above indicators so they will get preferential treatment. But the AFL has to subsidise them as they subsidised the St.kilda membership to 23,000 up until this year.

This is really the crux of the argument. As you know as well as anyone else, you have to win on the last Saturday of September at the MCG to be the champion.

 

[Munga]

Originally posted by Zeke
We have an easy fixture that was chosen for us, not by us. It was chosen for AFL benefit, not Collingwood benefit. Any resultant Collingwood benefit is merely a byproduct of the overall AFL benefit.

THANK YOU ZEKE!

 

[FIGJAM]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Collingwood never travel? Look at the FACTS

Originally posted by Joffaboy

Originally posted by FIGJAM
The link works fine Liarboy.

http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=114156

The second article from a reitterated the AFL spiel.

The link doesn't work and dont call me a liar tool. The thing comes up blank RRRRSSSShole.

How can Waldron state that he was happy to play Collingwood at home, if the draw wasn't even out yet? The article was from August. Why did he mention Collingwood at all??

The only quote from Waldron on AFL site just states he is happy to play Essendon and Collingwood at home AFTER the draw was out.

Eitherway, my initial contention that we are used by the lower clubs and the AFL stands. It is well supported and well reasoned.

Supported and well reasoned? Rubbish? It was arrogant and dismissive. Using provocative phrases like St.Kilda went to the AFL on their knees begging is well reasoned is it? Especially when it isn't true. Then a tirade about other clubs wanting to "steal" your traditions. Mabye emotive blatherings are reasoned in your socio-eco standing pal, but in serious discussion you sound like a child.

I suggest you learn how to do the same, before calling people names, which as MarkT rightly pointed out, are ironic in nature!

Great a lectrure in deportment from someone who denigrated other clubs, who calls an alternate view a troll and then calls me a liar. What a hypocritical position you take. And quoting MarkT, the Collingwood voice of reason.

Do you understand what the word irony means Figjam? I only ask this because you didn't understand the definition of "tradition". Are you from the Alanis Morissette school of irony definitions

When you quote my post, cut and paste the URL and put it in your browser. It exists. The article states that Waldron wants a home game against Collingwood.

It seems to me, that you've come out and called me names, due to a side remark of clubs begging. It may have been arrogant, but it hardly warranted the torrent of abuse I copped from you afterwards.

I'm just trying to make a point, that the smaller Victorian clubs request (whether by key request, or simple suggestions to the AFL) to play a home game against us.

I am quite familiar with the term ironic Alanis. When you call me ignorant, then it's ironic. I am aware of what I'm talking about. Therefore, I am not ignorant.

As for tradition, I prefer this definition:

tradition

n 1: an inherited pattern of thought or action

Given that we didn't request to play Essendon (including ANZAC Day), Carlton and Richmond twice AFL regarding the 2004 draw, one must assume that the continuance by the AFL to schedule these games, is an inhereted pattern from the past and the scheduling of these blockbusters is therefore a tradition.

And from yours:

" the transmission of any knowledge, opinions, or practice, from forefathers to descendants by oral communication, without written memorials."

In the above case, no requests (ie. written memorials) were made by the four clubs. The decendants (ie. Dimmetriou) simply knew what to program. Therefore the ANZAC Day match and the blockbusters are traditional games.

 

[lions_threepeat]

I think that Hawthorn will make the finals next year. It is a very favourable draw for them.

 

[FIGJAM]

Originally posted by Joffaboy
Originally posted by FIGJAM
We appreciate that the blockbusters help us financially.

Finally.

However, the AFL aren't doing it to benefit us (nor Essendon, nor Carlton), they schedule games to benefit themselves and themselves only. If you fail to recognise this, then you're a w@#ker. Sorry, but true!

It is mutally beneficial. But you are right. if the heavyweights were the Kangaroos and Geelong they would have the Collingwood and Essendon draw.

It's funny though, in 2001 we had a particularly difficult run, but in hindsight, it wasn't much different to what we have this year. Amazing how being one of the better teams changes some opposition supporter's opinions and makes them whine like sows!

As i have stated on numerous occassions FIGJAM, I have no problems with Collingwood getting the draw they have, 4 interstate trips is about average.

What irks me is the arrogant attitude that some Wobble fans have toward the Vic teams that are disadvantaged by your favourable draw.

Because, as you rightly say, the AFL does the draw to maximise revenue for the AFL, they should compensate teams such as Melbourne (not St.Kilda as we have never asked for AFL support, and the draw we have is fair and reasonable, and we are not disadvantaged by the Wobbles or Bummers draw) so they can stay viable and give their supporters something to hope for in the future.

I'll give you an example. When the Saints moved to the then Colonial stadium we had 17,000 members and could only win two games. We did not deserve any preferential treatment from the AFL. Three years on we have a record membership,(25,000) 20% increase in gates to an average of 32,000, a turnaround of 4.2 million dollars and a $600k profit. On field we have begun to move up the ladder.
Now these figures are not in the same league as Collingwood or Essendon or Adelaide, however the indicators mentioned have menat that next season we do get some preferential treatment in the guise of Easter Monday, and home games against Essendon and Collingwood.
Melbourne fans have to work to improve the above indicators so they will get preferential treatment. But the AFL has to subsidise them as they subsidised the St.kilda membership to 23,000 up until this year.

This is really the crux of the argument. As you know as well as anyone else, you have to win on the last Saturday of September at the MCG to be the champion.

I can't believe this. You're borderline talking some sense!

Not one Collingwood supporter, ever, ever, ever, ever denied on this forum or any other that "blockbusters" nor the ANZAC Day game aren't money spinners for Collingwood.

You're now recognising that it's the AFL looking after its own interests and as such, I don't want to hear from you that we are "welfare" recipients.

We don't get these games because it's beneficial to the AFL and Collingwood. They don't ****en care about us. And why should they?? As you pointed out, if it were Norf or the Cats in our position, they'd schedule blockbusters for them! Not only that, I wouldn't be dumb enough to discourage it!!

The profits taken from these games are filtered back through the clubs. It's just the AFL are too soft (or too canny) to risk reductions in revenue. Don't blame us, because we're just a pawn!

I'm starting to think you're seing the light. Maybe soon, you will appreciate that it is better from the AFL's point of view, to have the gate money from a big club like us go to Norf or the Bulldogs, as opposed to playing away against the West Coast Eagles. But one step at a time...

 

[maccas_no1]

Are Collingwood going to have to travel in next years Wizard Cup fixture????? You softies travelled four times for the whole of 2003, and you softies still lost 2 grand finals in one year, you had it handed on a platter, ****ing weak Collingwood are

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by captain ebert
colonwood dont travel to perth, because they were saving themselves for the big trip west, to london....

so when they do go west, they go on a publicity junket that is more or less an exercise to increase colonwood's profile....

why is that? how were the 2 teams for london chosen in the first place?

Same as other years at a guess when Collingwood weren't chosen. Mind you, chosing the team most likely to give profile would be the smart way to do it. But it's a disgrace that Collingwood are going this first time though isn't it?

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by maccas_no1
Are Collingwood going to have to travel in next years Wizard Cup fixture????? You softies travelled four times for the whole of 2003, and you softies still lost 2 grand finals in one year, you had it handed on a platter, ****ing weak Collingwood are

I like that one. Your weaker mob are a most accomodating host on our rare ventures east of Docklands or North of Abbotsford. I actually think Ed asked for more games against Adelaide for 2004 but the AFL though that was going a bit too far.

Oh, and the Wizzard Cup? I doubt we'll travel because I doubt get past round 1 as per usual.

 

[FIGJAM]

Originally posted by MarkT
I like that one. Your weaker mob are a most accomodating host on our rare ventures east of Docklands or North of Abbotsford. I actually think Ed asked for more games against Adelaide for 2004 but the AFL though that was going a bit too far.

Oh, and the Wizzard Cup? I doubt we'll travel because I doubt get past round 1 as per usual.

Errr, we're travelling west of Docklands first up MarcusT!!

 

[motumbo]

I can see why some people get upset about Collingwood's draw. If you go through the draw carefully you find that 12 of the 22 games that Collingwood play during the season are either on a Thursday night, Friday night or Sunday afternoon. Channel Nine is the broadcaster for those games and who is the face of Channel Nine football, EDDIE. He didn't do the draw, but the 3 channels who do the football, must have had a say in what games are shown where.

 

[Joffaboy]

Originally posted by FIGJAM
I can't believe this. You're borderline talking some sense!

No use butting heads when we are on the same wavelength

Not one Collingwood supporter, ever, ever, ever, ever denied on this forum or any other that "blockbusters" nor the ANZAC Day game aren't money spinners for Collingwood.

Not the point FIGJAM. Many have belittled and deridded other Vic clubs who do not get granted blockbusters and Anzac Day.

You're now recognising that it's the AFL looking after its own interests and as such, I don't want to hear from you that we are "welfare" recipients.

The two are not mutally exclusive. By granting blockbusters each and every single year to Collingwood both the AFL and COllingwood benefit - a good business move, but not a good move for other Vic clubs who are crowded out of the Vic market, and who have to take up the interstate travel slack.

We don't get these games because it's beneficial to the AFL and Collingwood. They don't ****en care about us. And why should they?? As you pointed out, if it were Norf or the Cats in our position, they'd schedule blockbusters for them! Not only that, I wouldn't be dumb enough to discourage it!!

Oh yes they do, because FIGJAM you are the largest followed, and biggest money spinner, but if you were in the Bulldogs or Demons position, for example, you may want compensation for your acquiesence to the AFL for their rigged draw.

The profits taken from these games are filtered back through the clubs. It's just the AFL are too soft (or too canny) to risk reductions in revenue. Don't blame us, because we're just a pawn!

The equalisation fund is a contradiction in terms, as clubs like Essendon and Collingwood make much more out of blockbusters and Anzac Day than they put into the equaliasation fund. But why shouldn't they? They get the crowds, the comp isn't totally socialist, however the AFL should recompense the lesser AFL teams in VIctoria for their disadvantage.

[I'm starting to think you're seing the light. Maybe soon, you will appreciate that it is better from the AFL's point of view, to have the gate money from a big club like us go to Norf or the Bulldogs, as opposed to playing away against the West Coast Eagles. But one step at a time...

I still think in the long run the interstate trips should be roughly equal. More to do with the current disadvantage of playing in Perth.

But to be fair Collingwood play their once next year, andf only have the advantage of playing three teams coming back from Perth, teams like the Saints have the advantage of four teams.

So in essence, my whole beef is that while Collingwood should get blockbusters to fill its, and the AFL coffers, nobody should whinge about it.
Conversely, nobody from clubs like Collingwood or Essendon should critisise clubs from Vic who need assistance from the AFl because they are disadvantaged by the draw.

Why cant we all just get along

 

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Joffaboy
Why cant we all just get along

Because that wouldn't make very interesting reading, would it?

 

[Professional]

Originally posted by MarkT
Clubs ask for home games against Collingwood and complain when they don't get them.

Really? I must have missed that. Troll.