Concerns or Positives???

[BoundforGlory]

Looking at last night, I wasnt really concerned with our effort. I liked how we thought back in the second half. There is onething that most people have overlooked is that, yes we had our under 21 team in, but with only burns, johno & wakes as senior players, the kids would of found it very hard to gain confidence. I would also say that might be the 1st time most of those players have played together. Mick knows that we have a very young list & wants to see where these kids are at to add to our depth. We also rested 11 senior players, so allow them to peak come September not in May like last year.

I was really impressed with Pendles, Thomas, H Shaw, D/ck, T Cloke(showed enough to say he will be ok at CHF), Davis & Maxwell.

I think players like Egan, Medhurst, Lonie, Rusling, IIles etc are players who perform better with better players around them..

The fact is my concern this year is not if we an make the 8, but top 4. I dont think we can because our Ruck department is SHOCKING & you need a dominate RUCK. RIchards & Bryan......hmmmm NO THANKS!!

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Spot pn BOF. IMO Rusling needs better players as he needs good delivery though. Still not convinced on Iles, reminds me of Woewodin in his later years.

 

[Wolfgang_99]

I think Pendlebury played a very good game, classy. Cloke showed some good aggresion towards the ball and player which was good to see on a night when he was somewhat starved of opportunity.

Also as someone mentioned good to see Wakelin is still up to it.

AS for Rusling, I have my doubts over him. I don't know if i agree with drafting kids purely because of their athletic ability. Then again pendlebury was probably drafted much in the same mould but imo he has shown alot more at AFL level than Rusling has thus far.

 

[ROWDY26]

Spot pn BOF. IMO Rusling needs better players as he needs good delivery though. Still not convinced on Iles, reminds me of Woewodin in his later years.

Rusling also needs an open forward line to lead into, so the Kangas flooding back wont help him at all, prehaps he should have been moved up the ground? I would have prefered to see Trav in the goalsquare and Rus at half forward. His pace is his best attribute, he needs to be able to use it.

What is wrong with Iles? He did everything right on friday night, hes not going to rack up big numbers when he plays backline on Brent Harvey.
I would like to see him run around in the second half of a match thats already over as a loose man across half back like Dale Thomas was allowed to do friday night.

 

[Coin_Toss]

I don't think supporters believe Collingwood can make the top four. I would be happy to make the finals, let alone get the double chance and finish in the top four.

We have been through the positives. The concerns were few and far between, because we expect these kids to be inconsistent - they need to develop an enormous belief in each other.

Is Pendlebury eligible to win the Rising Star Award? I think he's a good chance to win it, should play 22 games, barring injury. In fact I might put some money on him.

 

[Drizt]

Pendlebury is eligible as he only played 9 games last year. 10 is the cut off.

 

[Jabso]

I'm going a bit over the top here but what excited me about pendlebury is he went over 25 possesions with ease. He had 11 contested possies (the most on the ground) in a pretty open game. Once he bulks up more, and perhaps if he can get more agressive and confident with his body, I think he will be a real classy and dominant inside ball getter and clearance man.

What I liked about T.Cloke is that the forward line had a bad day, and tbh, so did he, but he still got around 10 possies and kept working hard and most of all was agressive.

At this stage I'm liking Bryan more than Richards. Richards ruckwork is better IMO, but Bryan just offers a different package than Fraser while Richards ruckwork is similar to Fraser (in that he is more a leaping player than a crash and bash type). He is someone who can fill a hole in defence and unlike Ricahrds he doesn't stand there like a lamp post, he is looking to give a shephard.

 

[Stakerz]

We were missing 10-11 of our starting players.

Nicholls looks a good player.

Pendlebury did great.

Rusling did nothing.

Let's get the season started.

 

[MarkT]

Pretty disappointing although not unexpected given the squad chosen. What was disappointing was the lack of individual promise. I was impressed with Pendlebury and Heath Shaw but that’s it of the young brigade. While not really impressed I wasn’t really disappointed with Thomas but many others showed little.

Rhyce continues to make poor decisions. That is unforgivable at this stage. He was drafted in 1999. Leon still can’t make any sustained impression on a game. Another taken in 1999. Compare them to Johnson from the same draft. That is where a player drafted last century should be. Wakelin showed he has been written off too early. He is undoubtedly the best CHB we’ve got. The rucks we rubbish. Just rubbish. Richards just doesn’t look to have it if you ask me. Bryan needs a bit more of a chance to play with his new team mates. He at least did a couple of things.

Rusling looked like the slowest speedy forward I have ever seen. No idea what the deal is but he didn’t chase hard. Leading can be a problem when the opposition floods like that (this was NAB wasn’t it?) but you can still make an impact. His marking wasn’t up to scratch either. I’m not dropping off him yet but it was a disappointing game from him. Travis was so/so. Medhurst showed little but first hitout buys him some grace. The midfield overall was murdered. North got it out of the middle at will and hen we went forward we have control at all across the middle.

To sum it up, a few players we really need to step up didn’t show signs and the acknowledged weaknesses are not looking like being cured in 2007.

 

[goalpie]

Nichols 0 games.
Cook 0 games.
Toovey 0 games.
******** 0 games.
Brown 0 games.
Cox (did he play????) 0 games.

 

[goalpie]

This Rusling thing is a load of crap. He is in the same position as Tarrant, I dont think Mick knows how to effectivly use this sort of player.

 

[augie]

Pretty disappointing although not unexpected given the squad chosen. What was disappointing was the lack of individual promise. I was impressed with Pendlebury and Heath Shaw but that’s it of the young brigade. While not really impressed I wasn’t really disappointed with Thomas but many others showed little.

Rhyce continues to make poor decisions. That is unforgivable at this stage. He was drafted in 1999. Leon still can’t make any sustained impression on a game. Another taken in 1999. Compare them to Johnson from the same draft. That is where a player drafted last century should be. Wakelin showed he has been written off too early. He is undoubtedly the best CHB we’ve got. The rucks we rubbish. Just rubbish. Richards just doesn’t look to have it if you ask me. Bryan needs a bit more of a chance to play with his new team mates. He at least did a couple of things.

Rusling looked like the slowest speedy forward I have ever seen. No idea what the deal is but he didn’t chase hard. Leading can be a problem when the opposition floods like that (this was NAB wasn’t it?) but you can still make an impact. His marking wasn’t up to scratch either. I’m not dropping off him yet but it was a disappointing game from him. Travis was so/so. Medhurst showed little but first hitout buys him some grace. The midfield overall was murdered. North got it out of the middle at will and hen we went forward we have control at all across the middle.

To sum it up, a few players we really need to step up didn’t show signs and the acknowledged weaknesses are not looking like being cured in 2007.

Agree with most of what you've said.

Our rucks really don't look like it do they? Bryan gets the benefit of the doubt, but Richards really does worry me. He just can't seem to impose himself at all. We are a long way off the best in that area.

I actually thought Medhurst was good. It really showed havign a smart, experienced forward in a line up of youngsters. His use of the body is excellent, and he knows where to run.

Spot on about Rhyce. The first 5-10 minutes I thought "you beauty, Rhyce is back". And he did look good. But he just has too many brain explosions. I'm not prepared to give up on him and Leon just yet, but time is running out for them to become high quality, consistent footballers.

I liked the way Nicholls went about it - he worked very hard and his attack on the footy was good. Cox, Toovey and Davies showed nothing to indicate they have the answers to any of the shortcomings in our list. Iles was okay, and I think will be a handy small defender in years to come.

Rusling disappointed me greatly. Say all you want about space and delivery, but some of the things he did wrong have nothing to do with that. I posted on another thread about his poor attack on the footy. He just doesn't seem to be prepared to put his body on the line and, worse, to hurt people who back into his space and mark in front of him. This might be due to lack of confidence in his body due to injuries. I certainly hope so, because he really does have the makings of a goof leading forward.

On the very positive side two people were standouts. Ben Johnson is sensational. The hard running, the confidence that he is going to beat his opponent and even his kicking were excellent. I'd be putting my cash on him for the Copeland this year.

And Pendlebury. I don't think I've seen too many players with 9 games experience have so much time and be so comfortable in heavy traffic. And he plays quite tall for a midfielder. So the midfield stocks are not quite as worrying as they seemed.

Of the others Nathan Brown showed me that he will be a star. Forget a couple of dodgy kicks, just look at the way he presented and contested. Dikk has something special about him. Loved the way he threw himself into the contest, and his silky skills.

All in all I think that while there were some disappointing aspects to the game the thing to remember is that the young players getting a run will not be all playing together again this year. It is a lot easier for a young player to look good when they have the better quality players around them. We didn't have that on Friday night and it showed. You only need to see how good Wakelin was to see the difference experience makes. I can see Nichols being a cracker of a player with Buckley marshalling him around the ground.


And while he had a pretty ordinary night I think Egan confirmed what some on here were saying about him having among the best handball skills at the club.

 

[Cyclops]

I felt we showed fair teamwork at times, and the systems Malthouse has in place will produce wins. I believe we were leading in the centre breaks most of the night despite being pounded in the ruck and for experience and weight all over the turf.

Bryan is lazy. He jumped less and less as the night wore on and kept turning up in easy kick zones rather than running deep like Josh and Richards do.

Medhurst used his tubby little body well. I hope he fits into the teamsystem because he's not going to win matches by himslef, he needs to fit in with the boys around him. Will he be versatile enough?

The kids like Brown and Toovey shanked their kicks badly, as did a couple of the senior players: thats down to the conditions, rust and stage fright and is no great concern. Brown made up for his fluffs with great attacks on the ball in a couple of packs, he has the correct attitude.

Nicholls adapted to the wet and bombed it long if not effectively, but Pendlebury showed what all the fuss was about. Plenty of time in the packs, handballs looping round corners, he finds team-mates and improves their position with expert placement. He can still bobble the odd pass but overall he's a fascinating prospect.

Rusling did not attack the man. He ran at the ball bravely enough but frankly if he wants to be a forward he can't be too nice about it. North went to great lengths to run Cloke out of position, but his handful of possesions had some real gold. Twice he ran down smaller opponents and won frees or loose balls, and he made a fist of every contest. He topped it off with some excellent long kicking.

Wakelin did very well, managed the conditions better than Thompson and found ways to contribute in the air and on the run. I'd be delighted if he can still play his part this year, it'll confirm our backline as the best around.

Overall most players have the right attitude, we show patches of effective teamwork but the skills and inexperience let us down. Bryan and Rusling need to find different approaches to their footy, but we have midfield and forward options developing well.

 

[BoundforGlory]

After a few days to let the lose settle in, I dont think its all that bad. Ok Fraser, Clement, Bucks, Didak, Rocca, Lica, Obree, Lockyer, Holland, Presti & Swan are going to add a fair bit to that team!!!!

After watching the replay, we outscored North in the second half & they had there full team in! Also they are well advanced in there pre season, so run over them in second half was a VERY good sign.

Someone made a great point that young players need experience around them in order to play better. With 11 top senior players out, very hard to do.

Youngsters to impress were:
Pendles: STAR!!
Thomas: Looked good & will continue to be special
Brown: Looked nervous, but just showed a few signs that he is going to be that tuff nut of a defender we desperately need!
D/ck- good be a player too, but too early to tell

 

[doppleganger]

To sum it up, a few players we really need to step up didn’t show signs and the acknowledged weaknesses are not looking like being cured in 2007.

not sure if i agree with this mark

IMO in the two praccy games so far we have had some important blokes stand up

T.Cloke - def need him to have a big year, looks as tho he is goin well so far, the sydney game was good, kangas only so-so

Pendles - what a cracker of a game

Thomas - not as dominant as Pendles, but shown he will continue to improve

H.Shaw and B.Johnson - showed that they are not one season wonders, and will provide plenty of pace and drive thru the middle

so that covers the midfield and key forward spot

the other key players would be rusling and one of bryan or richards to stand up

if this happens then we are looking good IMO

 

[Gedstar]

Rhyce continues to make poor decisions. That is unforgivable at this stage. He was drafted in 1999. Leon still can’t make any sustained impression on a game.

Rusling looked like the slowest speedy forward I have ever seen...... The midfield overall was murdered.

I agree with most of that MarkT, particularly Rhyce and Rusling.

Where i would love to see him do well, Rhyce lacks composure & and is not a patch on his younger brother who has been the real highlight of the last 12 months for me.

I agree with your comments on Leon and i am not sure how he will travel now that tarrant is gone. Not forgetting his season ending injury last year he seemed to revell in having Taz/ Rocca & Fraser on the park at the same time, which he didnt have in the two previous seasons.

Rusling will certainly not have the same impact in the forward line, as he cant stop and turn quickly enough imo. He turns in a wider arc than Woewoden used to do and unless the ball is going to be delivered to him lace out he is going to struggle. With no improvement in the mid-field stocks from last year it is does not go well for the new look forward line imo.

I am however looking forward to seeing Rocca go round this year. A year under his belt following his archilles injury will hopefully enable a more mobile and free running big man help Fraser out.

 

[MarkT]

not sure if i agree with this mark......
if this happens then we are looking good IMO

Didn’t see the Sydney game so can’t comment. Johnson isn’t young. He has had 7 seasons of senior football. I am not nocking him but he is at his peak.

What I was looking for were signs from the youngsters. Pendlebury was great. Thomas was ok. They confirmed what I suspected from last year. Heath was very good and looks to me like he will be a very valuable player. Again, that was apparent last year. The problem is, all that was pre known. I was hoping for encouragement and didn’t see any. The ruck, the untried kids, the next generation forwards – all were average at best. In fact it was worse than I thought. I was really hoping Rusling would be a spark.

As I said, we haven’t solved any problems which I am sick and tried of being the case. As I have been saying we will be reasonably competitive but we won’t win a flag with this squad ever. It just doesn’t have it. A major ruck and midfield boost is needed and that is assuming some of the kids will replace Wakelin, Presti & Clement on top of Buckley & Burns.

Rusling might be good but he needs to look at how he plays. I have absolutely no confidence that Richards will even be adequate. Bryan I will reserve judgement on until I have seen more of him but I didn’t like what I saw.

 

[doppleganger]

Didn’t see the Sydney game so can’t comment. Johnson isn’t young. He has had 7 seasons of senior football. I am not nocking him but he is at his peak.

What I was looking for were signs from the youngsters. Pendlebury was great. Thomas was ok. They confirmed what I suspected from last year. Heath was very good and looks to me like he will be a very valuable player. Again, that was apparent last year. The problem is, all that was pre known. I was hoping for encouragement and didn’t see any. The ruck, the untried kids, the next generation forwards – all were average at best. In fact it was worse than I thought. I was really hoping Rusling would be a spark.

As I said, we haven’t solved any problems which I am sick and tried of being the case. As I have been saying we will be reasonably competitive but we won’t win a flag with this squad ever. It just doesn’t have it. A major ruck and midfield boost is needed and that is assuming some of the kids will replace Wakelin, Presti & Clement on top of Buckley & Burns.

Rusling might be good but he needs to look at how he plays. I have absolutely no confidence that Richards will even be adequate. Bryan I will reserve judgement on until I have seen more of him but I didn’t like what I saw.

fair enough

i was thinking in relation to 2007

bit hard to expect the draftees to show much in their first game

so what i have taken is that pendles, thomas, h.shaw will all be good additions to midfield

b.johnson looks like he will stay at his high level of 06

t.cloke seems like he is developing as a key forward

so for 07 the only other things we need are for one of bryan or richards to stand up, and rusling to show something

if this happens we should improve

talking about premierships etc is a bit too hard to judge, would never have thought that at the beginning of 02 that we would almost win the flag

but in terms of improving on 06 i think the signs are good

 

[The Royal Sampler]

We are in serious trouble with our ruck stocks, no doubt.

I thought some of the kids were better than the consensus here, Brad ******** in particular really impressed me as a skinny kid who plays like he is bigger bodied, and unlike Egan has inside-midfield capabilities. Obviously due to his size he won't have much impact in 2007 though.

Rhyce Shaw... I like the guy, I went to school with him, he's friends with my sister... but that game was unacceptable and he knows it. He's quick, and he has good disposal, but if he's running flat out his disposal is below average and he puts teammates under pressure by taking the wrong option.

Anyone know what has happened to Goldsack? He was supposed to be the most 2007-ready of the 2006 draftees, I gather he's carrying an injury?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm not as concerned as some others.

Dikk - looks to have the makings of a quality footballer. Will play seniors this year and hopefully will be part of the new breed that squeezes the likes of Davis out of the team

Egan - got better as the game wore on

R Shaw - I'll put his game down to first game nerves (admittedly no excuse, he'll have to eradicate the clangers quick-smart). Still coming back from injury and has not got his mojo yet. I'm pleased with the number of possies he gathered and I like his attempts to carry the ball.

Toovey - got some possessions. I didnt think he was that impressive, but hell, at least he got a few kicks. Same too with Cook after half time. Neither did enough to overly impress but both did enough to deserve more opportunities.

Bryan - not much chop in the ruck and needs to lose a few kgs around the butt and thighs, but looked ok around the ground and may get better when he's fully recovered from the knee op.

Brown - did nothing, stuffed up his kicks, but somehow I like him a lot. He's got it - I have a feeling

T Cloke - competitive in difficult conditions for talls. Moved well.

Nicholls - excellent prospect

Iles - played well but I doubt he's going to be good enough or big enough

Thomas - good

Richards - rubbish but he needs a lot of game time.

Pendlebury - great

Davies - poor.

 

[MarkT]

so what i have taken is that pendles, thomas, h.shaw will all be good additions to midfield

Thomas and Pendlebury yes but they contributed last season anyway. You’d hope for more output this year. Heath Shaw I’m not sure about. What makes you think MM will play him midfield?

talking about premierships etc is a bit too hard to judge, would never have thought that at the beginning of 02 that we would almost win the flag

And we were seduced by the near miss and did very little to address why it was a near miss because we were so happy as a club with the effort. MM had a photo of the losers on his desk I believe.

 

[MarkT]

Davies - poor.

Apart from Richards who I now expect zero from Davies was a dissapointment. This was a chage to jump the pack and he showed nothing. It's only 1 game still pre season but that's when guys in his position need to show out.

 

[nick_savo]

Richards really needs to step up this week

 

[loki04]

I'm not as concerned as some others.

Dikk - looks to have the makings of a quality footballer. Will play seniors this year and hopefully will be part of the new breed that squeezes the likes of Davis out of the team

Egan - got better as the game wore on

R Shaw - I'll put his game down to first game nerves (admittedly no excuse, he'll have to eradicate the clangers quick-smart). Still coming back from injury and has not got his mojo yet. I'm pleased with the number of possies he gathered and I like his attempts to carry the ball.

Toovey - got some possessions. I didnt think he was that impressive, but hell, at least he got a few kicks. Same too with Cook after half time. Neither did enough to overly impress but both did enough to deserve more opportunities.

Bryan - not much chop in the ruck and needs to lose a few kgs around the butt and thighs, but looked ok around the ground and may get better when he's fully recovered from the knee op.

Brown - did nothing, stuffed up his kicks, but somehow I like him a lot. He's got it - I have a feeling

T Cloke - competitive in difficult conditions for talls. Moved well.

Nicholls - excellent prospect

Iles - played well but I doubt he's going to be good enough or big enough

Thomas - good

Richards - rubbish but he needs a lot of game time.

Pendlebury - great

Davies - poor.

Why do people constantly put Richards in with the kids , ffs he has been on the list for 7 years now.

 

[nick_savo]

Maybe because he isn't on the senior list?