controlled agression

[waldo]

I would be interested to here from other people around the world about how leagues have/have not attempted to ensure that the on field agression is within the spirit of the game. By the spirit of the game i mean that agression should be for the ball as the primary objective. From personal experience i have noticed that as club rivalries develop a little bit more feeling comes into the games. How can this be controlled?

*Do training sessions involve teaching players to bump and tackle correctly?
*Is the head sacrosanct as in the AFL?
*Who's reponsiblity is it to ensure that during games niggles don't turn into dirty footbal? Umpires, Coaches? Players?
*What methods have been employed to ensure that if a problem is identified a solution is found: improved umpiring standards(dont let the game get out of hand), coaching, tribunal?
*Preventing/reducing the poor behaviour in AFL to back chat to the umpire?

any thoughts welcome as this was quite a strong debate over a few beers tonight.

 

[Wildcat #4]

Playing in the OAFL here in Canada I've noticed that alot of the bigger Canadian players like to take the man instead of the ball as their first target. I know that this would probably come from playing alot of hockey.

The umpires have been doing a good job in stressing that the head is off limits. I haven't seen one player target the head deliberately this year so far.

It's the umpires, coaches and players responsibility to keep the game on the level and back chat towards the umpires isn't tolerated past a certain point.

 

[benjamin]

In my opinion this is the biggest challenge facing international football leagues, particularly those in countries that lack the cultural links to Australia which would give the league more plentiful umpiring resources (UK, USA, other English speaking countries). And it's surprising it hasn't been debated more heavily on forums like this.

Sure, it's easy to say the onus is on players and coaches to do the right thing but they are hardly objective in the context of a competitive football match, are they? You'd like to think the umpires can control things but the bottom line is, in a far away place, anyone who would by any stretch of the imagination be qualified to umpire would much rather be playing. Result: umpiring resources are as scarce as hen's teeth.

I believe that those most responsible for setting the right example are the Australians involved, be they umpires, coaches, players or even spectators. They are the ones who should see the bigger picture about growing the sport in a foreign environment, as a priority over on-field results.

Quite frankly from what I have seen in international footy the behaviour of some Aussies is an embarrassment to the country. In almost ALL of the serious on-field incidents I have seen, the main perpetrators have been Aussies - taking advantage of unsuspecting opponents and inexperienced umpires, and using their home grown experience in the worst possible way.

The bad behaviour also extends to ungracious winning. It is almost sickening the number of very gifted players I have seen revel in the glory of kicking bags of goals on a hapless local defender, leading their team to 20 and 30 goal victories, against an opposition who for better or worse often have no Australians at all.

I'm not saying they should start handballing to the opposition but when one team dominates a game unconditionally, I fail to see why they don't be creative - stick their Aussies in the backline, take them off. Do something to make the game competitive - everybody benefits.

As for controlling the aggression, in an ideal world you would have properly qualified umpires. But this isn't an ideal world and you don't. The onus often has to fall back on the club leaders (coaches, admin), most often Aussies, to ensure their players conduct themselves in the right manner.

 

[Niels81]

As "benjamin" says, it is mainly up to clubs and umpires to control the aggression. In my club, if we identify anyone who does not play in a safe manor or simply likes the biff, it is made clear to them, that if they continue they are not welcome at our club anymore. Unfortunately that is not the case in all clubs in DAFL.

In regards to umpires, in DAFL they have the possibility of sending players off for whatever time-period is required. I find that even 10 mins off the field sets a good strict example and calms the players down, so they focus on the footy.

Another thing, that I dont see many umpires react on is retaliation. This is usually made away from the ball, and therefor sparks a fare more negative aggression type on the field.

 

[waldo]

I believe that those most responsible for setting the right example are the Australians involved, be they umpires, coaches, players or even spectators. They are the ones who should see the bigger picture about growing the sport in a foreign environment, as a priority over on-field results.

i totally agree with this sentiment however as stated it is all well and good to talk about setting and example but implementing it in the heat of battle as such is often more difficult.

As for controlling the aggression, in an ideal world you would have properly qualified umpires.

I agree that when games have an experienced umpire the games are usually played in a great manner as the umpire keeps any spot fires under control. However the number of qualified umpires around the world probably numbers less than a dozen.

I haven't seen one player target the head deliberately this year so far.

I don't believe there are too many people who deliberately attack the head. However i have noticed that accidental contact often leads to esculation on the field which can quickly come out of control.

Therefore all though i have been totally against this for a long time and I am one of the players that loves the bump, I think that international football circles should consider banning the bump!!

My reasoning is as follows:
1. Accidental contact is inevitable - hence the AFL moving towards removing it from the game.
2. Head high contact and neck and back contact is very dangerous.
3. Delivering a safe bump is almost impossible for people that have played the game for years how can we expect new comers to be able to do this.
4. This contact often leads to esculation of issues on the field as players deliver the even upper.
5. Standard of umpiring cannot be expected to manage this issue - as even the afl umpires have issues with it.
6. there is no video footage to address the bump after the incident.
7. Many of the 'bad' hits come late and often the umpire is following the ball

Instead
* Players can only make shoulder to shoulder contact in a 1 on 1 situation.
* All other bumps are deemed illegal. In 99% of cases the umpire can determine who is the initiating player.
* Players should be taught to tackle. Aussie Rules players are terrible at tackling and with the many rugby and american football players this is a skill that can be quickly improved.

Benefits
* This would make training and explanation much easier for new comers as shoulder to shoulder contact is found in many sports - refer to soccer.
* Umpiring would be much easier as it removes this grey area from the game.
* Players are encourage to play the ball rather than play the man.
* Encourages players to get the hard ball as they don't have to worry about be pole axed while there head is down.

 

[clarkey]

I think that international football circles should consider banning the bump!!

Sure, and while we're at it, let's get the players to wear skirts as well.

 

[fishmonger]

Therefore all though i have been totally against this for a long time and I am one of the players that loves the bump, I think that international football circles should consider banning the bump!!

yeah, while we're at it, lets just all play gaelic football.

The AFL should never ban the bump completely and when international sides play against sides from Australia, the players are going to get a massive shock unless they are prepared for it.

 

[waldo]

just as a point of reference the bump or shoulder charge is illegal in rugby league. League players tackle and no-one can say that the sport is soft or that they wear skirts.

It would be nice to hear some constuctive debat rather than just lets play gaelic or wear skirts.

 

[clarkey]

Yes, but we are not talking about rugby. The bump is a fundamental part of the physical sport of Australian football.

As fishmonger has correctly pointed out, your suggestion would lead to international teams being massacred when they come to play Australian teams.

Happy to enter into constructive debate on constructive ideas.

 

[Plain Man]

..yeah plenty of derisory comments about Gaelic Football from people who obviously have never watched a full game.

The shoulder charge or 'bump' is legal in Gaelic - as long as it is shoulder to shoulder - and the purists of the game love it, and a perfectly executed shoulder is relatively safe but very effective...

 

[fishmonger]

..yeah plenty of derisory comments about Gaelic Football from people who obviously have never watched a full game.

The shoulder charge or 'bump' is legal in Gaelic - as long as it is shoulder to shoulder - and the purists of the game love it, and a perfectly executed shoulder is relatively safe but very effective...

I play fthe game and watch it.

What you are talking about is when a player has possession. Not inside 5 metres.

Different thing altogether.

 

[fishmonger]

just as a point of reference the bump or shoulder charge is illegal in rugby league. League players tackle and no-one can say that the sport is soft or that they wear skirts.

It would be nice to hear some constuctive debat rather than just lets play gaelic or wear skirts.

There is nothing constructive about the debate to fundamentally change the way our game is played.

In rugby league, like gaelic football, when the player has possession it is open slather. You can charge as much as you like. It is only off the ball that it is illegal.

Also they permitting checking after a kick, something that we call a "cheap shot" or a late bump and carries a penalty.

You can also tackle high and below the knees in rugby league.

There is no comparison.

And the AFL is already messing with tackling rules to reduce it to but grabbing a jumper for a millisecond and even then you'll be free-kicked. Pretty soon there will be yellow and red cards at AFL level and non-contact will be the order of the day.

What I am saying is that AFL level the game IS already soft (so soft I can hardly stand watching it). Sure it takes courage, I'm not denying that, but at least you know there is 100% chance of getting free kick or your opponent getting reported the moment you're touched. Hence players all too keen these days to duck their heads.

Ultimately umpires are responsible and without competent umpires, no football should be played. I have heard that there is a massive lack of umpires in developing nations. A mate of mine was called to umpire whilst playing in Canada, simply because he was one of few Australians who actually knew the rules. This is something that the AFL should be helping to address. And there is a benefit for them in that umpiring is unpopular here, there is a huge untapped resource of willing potential umpires oveseas to tap into. All it needs is development academies.

 

[Denmark AFL]

In Denmark there is some rough stuff, but nothing gets out of hand

As "benjamin" says, it is mainly up to clubs and umpires to control the aggression. In my club, if we identify anyone who does not play in a safe manor or simply likes the biff, it is made clear to them, that if they continue they are not welcome at our club anymore. Unfortunately that is not the case in all clubs in DAFL.

In regards to umpires, in DAFL they have the possibility of sending players off for whatever time-period is required. I find that even 10 mins off the field sets a good strict example and calms the players down, so they focus on the footy.

Another thing, that I dont see many umpires react on is retaliation. This is usually made away from the ball, and therefor sparks a fare more negative aggression type on the field.

hello my fellow dane

the game is growing great in the homeland and i am excited

 

[Benigro]

* Players should be taught to tackle. Aussie Rules players are terrible at tackling and with the many rugby and american football players this is a skill that can be quickly improved

Interesting concept. Tackling in rugby is made to stop a player from making headway...once on the ground he has to let the ball go....and the rucks, malls and and so on..and take it from there. (By the way I have never seen a rugby player studding heads come to think of it...all gentlemen).
American football they tackle....from every concievable angle and any conceivable number of players can join in...either hard soft, rough, mean as long as the ball carrier has the ball.....short from ripping the head out of the socket anything goes. Once down...they take it from thier....in fact holding on to the ball when tackled is not an option....ITS A MUST.

In aussie rules...tackling is often done in a way to make it impossible for the carrier to get rid of the ball...or making him lose the ball getting a free for "holding the ball", or making the carrier getting rid of it legally but uncontroled.
Tackle like they do in american football and rugby...all they will do in aussie rules is draw the tackler in....and handball to the next....bye bye defender...
One more thing....in aussie rules...you cannot tackle below the knees ,....something you can in rugby an grid iron....so often the upper torso is at the same level as the ball carrier...in rugby and grid-iron you can tackle lower...harder to dispose the tackler as a ball carrier....in aussie-rules, the tackler being so high its easier to dispose the tackle. But if a good tackle is made...the rewards are greater...you get the free kick for "holding the ball" and if not, ball up and take it from thier....

In other words...tackling is something completly different in Footy....and when a rugby player joins in..it is fun...because holding the ball is something we never get as a carrier. Taking tackling as an example is somewhat ludicrous

Comparing footy to soccer is not done either.....if aussie rules was played in a fashion and spirit of soccer we would be bumping everybody to death. Soccer players, and the game of soccer is well reknown for its intentional fouls...especialy when players break through without ever trying to play the ball. Besides...the shoulder to shoulder nudge should never result in a charge...or a forcable leaning into the other player and should only be done when both players can be in possesion of the ball...so this comparison doesnt help either. All these games have different mindsets. All have a different approach and even though there are simularities...in essence there isnt. Ceckers is played on a board with squares, but it doest make it chess

A lot has been done to ban fistfights, the game is faster.....so let it be. Big bumps, shoulder charges dont happen that often and when they do...should be done with commitment...its our game.....leave it alone.

Ben Groen

Player for "the flying Dutchman" and busy setting up an Amsterdam based footy team called Veni Vidi Vici...in short the triple V's. (I thought it refreshing instead of taking names, colours and logo's from existing clubs in Australia, or calling it the Wombats...when there arent any in Holland to be found..plenty of cows though...Hmmm the Amsterdam Cows...hahaha...nuuhhh!! The triple V's it is) VVV is a cricket & hockeyclub in Amsterdam that has been playing cricket since 1902. The only reference of an aussie like game at VVV is in 1917, when some aussie cricketers who when on leave from the hidious slaughter of men called the Great War played for VVV during WWI "a rugby like game only kicking and catching a lot" The board has recently asked me to set a footy team up...so Aussie rules has hit the lowlands.

 

[*Crash*]

Great stuff Benigro "VVV Footy Since 1917."

 

[TigerCraig]

just as a point of reference the bump or shoulder charge is illegal in rugby league. League players tackle and no-one can say that the sport is soft or that they wear skirts.

It would be nice to hear some constuctive debat rather than just lets play gaelic or wear skirts.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

Shoulder charges are legal and glorified and applauded in rugby LEAGUE

They are illegal in rugby UNION

 

[VikingSven]

Just wanted to add:

Tackles in both rugby codes must involve the arms/hands as a first point of contact during the collision. That is why a trip by the foot is illegal - whereas the ankle tap is not. A pure shoulder charge will incur a penalty and usually a send off in either code (atleast in the amatuers).