That is a good point.... if the AFL is in the dark except their medical officer....than how were they able to release that tidbit to the media?
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Cousins
- Thread starter Prem87
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That is a good point.... if the AFL is in the dark except their medical officer....than how were they able to release that tidbit to the media?
look, forget about the WADA, 12 weeks and 3 strikes, this as nothing really to so with that, and if the AFL are going to bust cuz it will be for bringing the game into disrepute, which would be impossible to contest.
personally, i think if the AFL want to give him a suspension for the damage he as done to the brand, then fair enough. if they dont, and they are content with the 6 weeks and rising indefinite suspension that the eagles have given him, then thats fine too.
either way, i think it will be AT LEAST 12 weeks of football that he is going to miss through suspension, so unless the AFL is planning on handing out a big suspension, then this sort of stuff is quite academic.
personally, i think if the AFL want to give him a suspension for the damage he as done to the brand, then fair enough. if they dont, and they are content with the 6 weeks and rising indefinite suspension that the eagles have given him, then thats fine too.
either way, i think it will be AT LEAST 12 weeks of football that he is going to miss through suspension, so unless the AFL is planning on handing out a big suspension, then this sort of stuff is quite academic.
well from an early article on this stuff, right after andy d let out that cuz ad been tested alot without failing one, one of the journos inferred that that information is secret...... until the shit hits the fan, then anyone high up at te AFL can look through it
- Banned
- #204
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,21667000%255E19742,00.html
Fu Manchu may wish to read this.
It basically states what I and various others have been asserting for weeks in various threads.
The AFL cannot ban Cousins without running the risk of its whole drug testting regime being ripped apart.
Thats how it works in the real world Fu, feel free to join it sometime.
NOTE: This whole argument run by Fu is completely bogus. The AFL run the testing program and simply outsource the testing to ASADA. The AFLPA, being concerned about anonymity, ensured that the results werent broadly announced at AFL HQ by including the confidentiality clauses and presumably by including the AFL medical officer as the first point of recording. But here is some news for Fu, the AFL medical officer is "the AFL".... There is nothing specific within the policy that precludes the AFL Medical Officer from disclosing test results to other AFL officials. The agreement requires the AFL to do the tests (contracted out to ASADA) and it requires the AFL to adminster the testing regime. The confidentiality clauses are primarily aimed at those outside the AFL HQ who may be involved in treatment of a positive player. ASADA only perform the tests under contract, they DO NOT adminster the drug program. The AFL co-ordinate target testing, they co-ordinate the results and the reporting of those results.
Fu Manchu may wish to read this.
It basically states what I and various others have been asserting for weeks in various threads.
The AFL cannot ban Cousins without running the risk of its whole drug testting regime being ripped apart.
Thats how it works in the real world Fu, feel free to join it sometime.
NOTE: This whole argument run by Fu is completely bogus. The AFL run the testing program and simply outsource the testing to ASADA. The AFLPA, being concerned about anonymity, ensured that the results werent broadly announced at AFL HQ by including the confidentiality clauses and presumably by including the AFL medical officer as the first point of recording. But here is some news for Fu, the AFL medical officer is "the AFL".... There is nothing specific within the policy that precludes the AFL Medical Officer from disclosing test results to other AFL officials. The agreement requires the AFL to do the tests (contracted out to ASADA) and it requires the AFL to adminster the testing regime. The confidentiality clauses are primarily aimed at those outside the AFL HQ who may be involved in treatment of a positive player. ASADA only perform the tests under contract, they DO NOT adminster the drug program. The AFL co-ordinate target testing, they co-ordinate the results and the reporting of those results.
You may want to read this, the results are confined to those involved in the treatment process, no-one else, including the club and the rest of the AFL admin. For Cousins to get penalised, it wont be thru the testing process anyway, it will be from disclosure. Once disclosure has been made, the AFL are free to act.
Lets just wait and see, as much as you say the story about the commission wanting to penalise is a media beat up, the same accusation can be made against your little snippet. You seem to think the only penalty can be applied thru test results, I'm saying that there are other forms of evidence from which they can penalise.
First Positive Test
Player enters treatment / education program co-ordinated by AFL Medical Officer. This result is confidential to those involved in the treatment and the education and welfare of the player.
Second Positive Test
Dealt with by the AFL Medical Officer with a view to further educating, counselling and treating the player. The AFL Medial Officer shall also inform the relevant AFL Club Doctor on a confidential basis, in the further education and treatment of the player. The Club Doctor is under strict ethical and contractual obligations to maintain confidentiality
This implies that a firewall can exist between the AFL medical officer and the rest of the AFL administration, as it limits knowledge to those named specifically.
Read Caro's article today about Cousins, it seems the players at WC may not necessarly want the little lying rodent back. They feel he has undermined the culture at the club. Apparently he has to prove he has been transformed and that if he pulls his punches in his little speech today, that will only be seen as insincere and posturing.
Interesting times.
Interesting times.
- Banned
- #208
It does not imply that a firewall exists at all.
The clear intent of these provisions is that anyone external to the AFL who is involved in the treatment of the player is to act in confidence. The AFL are the contracting party and could not possibly run this regime without knowing the results of the tests. It is their contractual obligation to do so.
The AFL may, as a matter of procedure, have the entire regime run and administered through the desk of their medical officer but there is nothing in the policy that limits them to that. In addition, the easy access of Demetriou to the test results of Cousins suggests that he has access to those test results.
It says and I repeat, the results are confidential to those involved in the treatment. Demetriou and Anderson & co, are not involved in the treatment. Up until that point, only the testing authority and medical personnel are involved and have knowledge. If you cant read its not my fault
- Banned
- #211
She makes many assertions about what was said in a meeting that was held in confidence.
Surely when the AFL say something is done confidentially, then there can be no leaks?
I mean are you suggesting that the AFL when bound by confidentiality leaks?
Perhaps it does, this would somewhat damage the other argument you were running. Alternatively, Caro could be talking out of her arse ... again. The comments she makes cannot be proven or disproven because they are from a confidential meeting. None of the attendees can say anything and their was no-one their for public record purposes.
More Caro speculation.
I stopped reading right there. Next you'll be trying to use articles by that w*nk Walls to justify your views
So eagle87 now thinks that Demetriou and co are involved in the medical, welfare and education of players. i thought they were the administrators of the game.
The deal struck with the AFLPA was to give players 2 chances to have their drug activities stopped by way of medical and counselling services before it came to the notice of the AFL administration. Good in theory, bad in outcomes. But it was meant to give the players a chance to reform before the AFL gained knowledge and had to impose penalty.
Once the AFL admin know, the penalty process takes place. Up until then, the AFL admin are not meant to know anything. Other than testing takes place.
The deal struck with the AFLPA was to give players 2 chances to have their drug activities stopped by way of medical and counselling services before it came to the notice of the AFL administration. Good in theory, bad in outcomes. But it was meant to give the players a chance to reform before the AFL gained knowledge and had to impose penalty.
Once the AFL admin know, the penalty process takes place. Up until then, the AFL admin are not meant to know anything. Other than testing takes place.
- Banned
- #216
Again, for the 3 millionth time, what is your basis for this assertion?
To make it clear (for you as much as anyone else), you are saying that once the AFL administration become aware of drug use then "the penalty process takes place". This is based on what? You continue to draw this non-existant line to justify your view that Cousins can be punished under a drug policy that leaves actual offenders (under that policy) free to go about their football lives in anonymity. Its bollocks.
The AFL are aware of players who have tested positive for drugs, they are also aware that Ben Cousins has used drugs. They have suspended none of them.
Interestingly, the penalty under the 3 strikes regime, is not a 12 week ban but rather a 0-12 week ban (to be determined by the AFL tribunal). For a subsequent 4th strike the penalty is "not less than 6 weeks".
To argue that Cousins should get double the maximum penalty for a 3rd strike and quadruple the minimum penalty for a fourth strike (i.e. a full season as some have suggested) beggars belief. On what possible basis is he 4 times worse than someone who fails 4 separate drug tests????
This is really the essence of the issue IMO, unpalatable as it may be.
Arguments about what is the 'correct' punishment are almost irrelevant.
As to the accuracy of Caro's information, hate her or no, she is very well connected and I have no doubt she was privvy to the gist at least of the recent Eagles/AFL meeting.
Yes eagle87 is correct. Demetriou runs the show and should know WTF is going on with medical, welfare and education. He is an Administrator. Similar to Eddie McGuire, now tell me he isnt involved at collingwood!!
Just listening to Demetriou on SEN (excerpt from comments he made on radio this morning)....and a scene from a movie came to mind.
Despite what we all think on here, and the opinions vary wildly, despite what everyone from Matthews to Gardner think, the reality is I don't know if Demetriou has any idea how to satisfy those baying for blood, and keep in tact the integrity of the drugs code. All this while NOT opening a can of worms when the Eagles (if unhappy with any penalty) comapre the treatment of Cousins with those players that HAVE tested positive to banned substances.
There is no precedent, and whatever happens in coming weeks, a large portion of experts and community will be 'outraged'. Doesn't matter which way it goes, there will be no winners.
The more I listen to Demetriou (particularly On The Couch and on radio this morning) the more I think of the scene from Days Of Thunder......... remember the scene with the president of NASCAR explaining a Japanese inspection to Cole and the team? This seems to be the AFL's answer at this point, put a pile of conditions on his return, and hope he's out long enough that they won't have to put a suspension in place and face a fight, whilst also being able to look critics in the eye and ratle off how mnay games he has missed.
Despite what we all think on here, and the opinions vary wildly, despite what everyone from Matthews to Gardner think, the reality is I don't know if Demetriou has any idea how to satisfy those baying for blood, and keep in tact the integrity of the drugs code. All this while NOT opening a can of worms when the Eagles (if unhappy with any penalty) comapre the treatment of Cousins with those players that HAVE tested positive to banned substances.
There is no precedent, and whatever happens in coming weeks, a large portion of experts and community will be 'outraged'. Doesn't matter which way it goes, there will be no winners.
The more I listen to Demetriou (particularly On The Couch and on radio this morning) the more I think of the scene from Days Of Thunder......... remember the scene with the president of NASCAR explaining a Japanese inspection to Cole and the team? This seems to be the AFL's answer at this point, put a pile of conditions on his return, and hope he's out long enough that they won't have to put a suspension in place and face a fight, whilst also being able to look critics in the eye and ratle off how mnay games he has missed.
Well, you know Tom & Nicole's oeuvre a bit better than me, but otherwise I think you're exactly right. This is the point I've been making - the AFL will hold over WCE the possibility of a full investigation & a much longer suspension unless they go a long with the charade of the "onerous conditions".
And in reality, a 2008 return is probably also the best result for the club, the team and for Ben himself. So, it's a charade they'll be happy to play along with (tho their resolve might be tested if there are some serious injuries in the second half of the season).
Those WCE supporters who seem to think that when Dalton gives Ben the nod, all will be forgiven & Ben will be allowed to stroll back on to the park are completely kidding themselves.
Hehe, fancy a Days of Thunder line being too obscure.....
Here's the line(s) for anyone else who hasn't seen it.....NASCAR Pres: 'You ever heard of a "Japanese Inspection?" Japanese Inspection, you see, when the Japs take in a load of lettuce they're not sure they wanna let in the country, why they'll just let it sit there on the dock 'til they get good and ready to look at, But then of course, it's all gone rotten... ain't nothing left to inspect. You see, lettuce is a perishable item... like you two monkeys. You trade paint one more time, you so much as touch, I'm gonna Black Flag the two of you, and tear apart your racecars for three-hundred laps. Then, if you pass inspection and you put your cars back together, I might let you back into the race.'
Alphanumeric
Premiership Player
I'm over it too.
Further penalties will be for bringing the game into disrepute if further transgressions follow.
