Opinion COVID19 - To Vacc or Not to Vacc

[JackOutback]

you can spin the fancies all you like doesn’t change the principle. And if you don’t value protection from discrimination then you’re just as bad as a racist

Unfortunately for you, rights don't come without responsibilities.

Do you believe in a Thesaurus? Unlengthy isn't a word.

If you don't know what a Thesaurus is, grab yourself a dictionary and work your way back from there.

Once you've read the dictionary, everything else is just a remix.

 

[Dazzler9]

Unfortunately for you, rights don't come without responsibilities.


Once you've read the dictionary, everything else is just a remix.

I read the dictionary lastnight. The zebra did it.

 

[MrKK]

There is grounds to apply for an exemption if you can't get vaccinated due to medical reasons.

Why should they get an exemption? If the employer requires everyone to be vaccinated to protect their workplace then shouldn't anyone unvaccinated be excluded, regardless of the reason.

 

[Dazzler9]

I read the dictionary lastnight. The zebra did it.

Beat ya to it kane249 LOL

 

[kane249]

Why should they get an exemption? If the employer requires everyone to be vaccinated to protect their workplace then shouldn't anyone unvaccinated be excluded, regardless of the reason.

So you don't want people to be discriminated against if they have a medical reason to not get a vaccination, but on the same hand you are wondering why they should get an exemption?

 

[kane249]

Beat ya to it kane249 LOL

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Many would argue that religion is belief in fake science, yet it is a protected characteristic. If someone claimed a vaccine was against their religion then it would be an interesting case.

Haha good point.

I think there’ll be interesting cases, for example I assume Jehovahs Witnesses may have religious objections to getting vaccines as they do for blood transfusions. There will have to be some way to deal with those situations.

 

[Dazzler9]

I can't remember who I stole that joke off. It was a stand up comic though.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I can't remember who I stole that joke off. It was a stand up comic though.

Stevie Wright I think?

 

[kane249]

Haha good point.

I think there’ll be interesting cases, for example I assume Jehovahs Witnesses may have religious objections to getting vaccines as they do for blood transfusions. There will have to be some way to deal with those situations.

Vaccination and religion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's not that straight forward surprisingly enough

Jehovah's Witnesses condemned the practice of vaccination in 1931 as "a direct violation of the everlasting covenant that God made with Noah after the flood",[14] but reversed that policy in 1952. The decision of whether to vaccinate themselves or their family is left to individuals. Some more recent Jehovah's Witness publications have mentioned the success of vaccination programs.[15]

 

[kane249]

I can't remember who I stole that joke off. It was a stand up comic though.

Stevie Wright I think?

Correct, Simpsons episode where Krusty becomes a stand-up comedian and ends up shilling for the Canyonero

 

[MrKK]

So you don't want people to be discriminated against if they have a medical reason to not get a vaccination, but on the same hand you are wondering why they should get an exemption?

I don't want anyone who is unvaccinated to be discriminated against, regardless of the reason.

But if the argument for vaccine mandates is that my health in the workplace is threatened by an unvaccinated person, then why they are unvaccinated is irrelevant. The threat to my health is the same.

 

[Agent93]

What’s your principle?

I do not want to be the cause of someone else getting seriously ill or dying.

What are you willing to do?

Take all reasonable precautions.

How many vaccines are you willing to take?

Any that are necessary for the risk above to be minimised.

How many lock downs?

WA has had less than a month locked down since the beginning of the pandemic. The longest single one has been 10 days. During that period social interaction was limited but that is an acceptable loss. For those whose ability to earn was restricted I believe the government should have done (be doing) more to directly support those individuals rather than directing that money towards businesses, especially those that did not need it.

Just how much? Is there ever a stop point?

No, there isn't. Unless there's some discovery that leads to the (near) eradication of the disease. However the easing of restrictions should occur when the expected hospitalizations is at a similar level to other respiratory infections. This would mean that given current resources, most patients at this stage should expect to survive.

In 2021 COVID hospitalizations in Australia are just over double that of influenza of 2019 (the worst recent year), so we're not there yet. An alternative is to increase the capacity for patients of this type, although the cost of this is likely far greater than attempting to restrict the spread at this point.

Now that I've answered your deflection, could you please answer my previous question regarding what 'the principle' is to you?

You've stated you do not want to take a vaccine that has a synthethic substitute for the protein-response created in more 'traditional' vaccines without longer term trials. You've stated you do not want an employer to place a condition of COVID vaccination upon your allowance to work, and based on the first statement I presume you might be OK with this should long term testing produce limited chance of unacceptable side-effects.

And whilst not directly stating this, it sounds like you are unwilling to limit social contact for short periods to limit transmission of a highly infectious airborne disease. I'm guessing there's a more important reason you have for this stance, such that it impacts your ability to earn. Is that the case?

 

[larrikin]

I don't want anyone who is unvaccinated to be discriminated against, regardless of the reason.

But if the argument for vaccine mandates is that my health in the workplace is threatened by an unvaccinated person, then why they are unvaccinated is irrelevant. The threat to my health is the same.

Well, no it's not. The number of people who qualify for a medical exemption is far smaller than the people who are either in the "Covid is not a thing" or "Big Pharma is out to get me" "I can't be ****ed" or "**** you I do what I want" camps.

Just like the vaccine, it's about risk reduction - it's all a number game.

 

[Agent93]

It's a massive overreach of WHS obligations and I worry the precedent it sets. Also how does it avoid discriminating against those who can't get vaccinated for health reasons?

Basic immunization levels have been standard practice in healthcare for years. Much like restrictions on operating heavy equipment for those that have been on the booze, it's a safety precaution aimed at minimising risk (basically the elimination step in the hierarchy of hazard control). I'd agree it would be an overreach to mandate vaccination in a mechanical workshop, or several other jobsites, but it is appropriate in the healthcare industry.

If you cannot take any vaccination due to medical reasons, you are able to be granted a temporary or permanent exemption depending on circumstances. Information for exemptions is available on the the govt's services Australia website. The same applies to situations outside of employment, such as entering a child into childcare service.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

It has been my observation that the same people refusing to get vaccinated are the same ones who take limited, if any precautions against catching and spreading viruses.

It my observation that these people are almost entirely campaigners in ever aspect of their lives.

 

[Agent93]

But if the argument for vaccine mandates is that my health in the workplace is threatened by an unvaccinated person, then why they are unvaccinated is irrelevant. The threat to my health is the same.

I agree with you here, but you're walking into legal territory rather than safety. Basically "I don't want to" isn't a valid claim for discrimination. Or in this case: "I don't trust / believe the testing certified by the official institution is adequate".

 

[Agent93]

It my observation that these people are almost entirely campaigners in ever aspect of their lives.

Nah, I've got a few anti-lockdown/mask/covid vax folks at my hockey club and in general they're alright people. However, most of them are tradies and lockdowns interfere with their earning and they're frustrated. I don't blame them, because the government has repeatedly done stuff all to help them out.

 

[larrikin]

Folks, this thread has pretty much served it's purpose for now, for the last couple of dozen pages it's turned to a series of shitfights and strawman arguments which are frankly serving no one.

This really has nothing to do with West Coast or footy anymore. If you want to debate further, you can take it to the SRP Board. Do not, I repeat, do not clog up the Covid Info thread, which has been a useful resource for people.

Cheers

Mod Team