Craig Stevens: I'll step aside

[skipper kelly]

My view on this is

1. CS has made some good money out of it, so he is happy.

2. Thorpe is our best swimmer. Thorpe failed. Big Deal. End of story. No one is perfect.

3. Swimming is a sport were you have to compete on the day. No second chances.

4. Plenty of athletes have failed under the pressure of the big meet. Didnt el gourroug SP, get beat in Sydney.

5. Whats the point of having national selection trials if they can be overturned and anyone selected.

6. I would have liked to see the 3rd placed swimmer get the gig, unless he didnt meet the qualifying standard

7. CS should be banned from swimming any 400m events in or for australia.

8. When are the Olympics on?

 

[feher]

9. re-badge the stupid pointless activity
10. change the rules completely
11. make it clear that certain events will only be done for fun/money/whatever, and that no matter the result, the individuals have being chosen
12. olympic qualifying event participants can not give up their spot without a good reason or face 4 yr ban

 

[TheBloods]

Originally posted by Bee
Do you think that the rules should be broken for champions, but not for any lesser mortal?

If Thorpe does the same thing in Athens the rules remain the same. He doesn't get a second chance. He should not have a second chance here.

You don't seem to get it. The purpose of the trials is to pick the best team to compete at the Olympics. Rules such as unintentionally breaking early should not stop us picking our best team.

If Thorpe does the same thing in Athens then of course he doesn't get another chance. However, at that stage it is the actual Olympics and it is a real event.

It's pretty obvious that there are differences between trials and actual events.

The most ridiculous thing of the whole affair is that he was disqualified in the first place. He should have been allowed to get pack on the blocks and the race run normally.

 

[TheBloods]

Originally posted by skipper kelly
2. Thorpe is our best swimmer. Thorpe failed. Big Deal. End of story. No one is perfect.

I don't think this counts as 'failed.' If he was beaten, yes. But he asn't. He was disqualified on a technicality. Okay, that counts in a 'real' race but it should not be used as a measure to determine our best swimmer. A bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

3. Swimming is a sport were you have to compete on the day. No second chances.

Yes, but firstly you have to copmpete and that should not be the day. The day is during the actual games.

4. Plenty of athletes have failed under the pressure of the big meet. Didnt el gourroug SP, get beat in Sydney.

I don't think falling in the pool is failing. If he was actually beaten then fair enough, but he wasn't.

5. Whats the point of having national selection trials if they can be overturned and anyone selected.

What's the point in having national selection trials if we don't pick the best side? That is the only purpose of them.

 

[feher]

Originally posted by NMWBloods I don't think falling in the pool is failing. If he was actually beaten then fair enough, but he wasn't.

it might not be failing, but he fell into the pool at a trial in a heat! you would think their is next to no presure for a champ wouldn't you? if he can't balance at a trial heat what is he's chance at the real thing? and whats to say he wouldn't have being beaten had the race being run ... unlikely i know but their is still that chance.

 

[otaku]

Originally posted by feher
i'll re-do it:
your comment


If you are going to hold the event to determine who should goto the olympics via a qualifing event, and you carn't argue that is what was done, as stevens HAD the right to go, but you change the rules around to suit your own selfish needs; does that make the event worthwhile? swimming in this country is mickeymouse now imo.

but it was Stevens decision to give up his place. Thats is the whole point.

Basically, i see the reason that Thorpe was disqualified as pointless, not the race itself.

With the disgraceful way this has being done, i wonder what is the point of the next swimmer going up against thorpe to qualify for the next olympics, it probably will be due to stevens selfish actions, but for individuals you must question the point of going to these events.

Got nothing to do with racing against Thorpe. If he had beaten Thorpe, he would be better on the day, and thus should go - Thorpe was ruled out due to a beaurocratic decision, not a lack of form.

but the way it has being done is disgraceful, and makes the event imo completely worthless. What you have done is taken away stevens chance to win gold in the 400m! if he wasn't serious about going to athens to compete in the 400m don't swim!

my problem is thorpe is going to swim the 400m without qualifying

I have not done anything to take away Stevens chance to win. HE ruled himself out. Now why do you think he did this?? Maybe he knew he couldnt cut it at that level?

As i have said before - Thorpe is a world champion - why shouldnt he defend his title?

 

[TheBloods]

Originally posted by feher
if he can't balance at a trial heat what is he's chance at the real thing?

Well, I dunno, but just a wild guess, I reckon his chances of balancing at the real thing are pretty good...

and whats to say he wouldn't have being beaten had the race being run ... unlikely i know but their is still that chance.

Of course there is a chance, as small as it might be, which is why I said he should have been allowed to compete at the time.

 

[otaku]

Originally posted by feher
it might not be failing, but he fell into the pool at a trial in a heat! you would think their is next to no presure for a champ wouldn't you? if he can't balance at a trial heat what is he's chance at the real thing? and whats to say he wouldn't have being beaten had the race being run ... unlikely i know but their is still that chance.

Do you bitch and moan as much about Michael Diamond and his shoot off?

 

[feher]

Originally posted by otaku
but it was Stevens decision to give up his place. Thats is the whole point.

Basically, i see the reason that Thorpe was disqualified as pointless, not the race itself.

ok he gave up his position but why does it goto thorpe? he didn't finish the race! their is no logic to this, if you hold trials to goto the olympics then do it, don't bs around.

Originally posted by otaku
Got nothing to do with racing against Thorpe. If he had beaten Thorpe, he would be better on the day, and thus should go - Thorpe was ruled out due to a beaurocratic decision, not a lack of form.

and he may have being beaten had he not fallen into the pool, we will never know.

Originally posted by otaku
I have not done anything to take away Stevens chance to win. HE ruled himself out. Now why do you think he did this?? Maybe he knew he couldnt cut it at that level?

then why swim the race? why does thorpe get the position infront of the 3rd place finisher, did anyone ask the 3rd place finisher if he would like to swim the 400m, he earnt it more so then thorpe! in terms of qualifing

Originally posted by otaku
As i have said before - Thorpe is a world champion - why shouldnt he defend his title?

simple he didn't qualify, he didn't even place in the race.

 

[Bee]

Originally posted by otaku
no, it is totally different! it is a shame you cant see the difference.



Thats complete bullsh*t. Of course he earnt it. You dont get to be world champion by luck. And you shouldnt be penalised for bad luck either.

No, he never earned it. He was disqualified. To qualify you needed to finish 1st or 2nd. He didn't even race. So he didn't earn it! That fact that he is Ian Thorpe doesn't mean he should be treated any differently.

Bad luck or not, he broke the rules.

I believe the rules are stupid, but everyone has to abide by them.

 

[feher]

Originally posted by otaku
Do you bitch and moan as much about Michael Diamond and his shoot off?

michael who? i know who he is, just not sure on the case

+ i am bored

 

[skipper kelly]

Rules are rules. Without rules we would live in (dont know I forgot the rest, who cares.) can someone respond to my point 8. please.

 

[feher]

Originally posted by skipper kelly
Rules are rules. Without rules we would live in (dont know I forgot the rest, who cares.) can someone respond to my point 8. please.

when its built

http://www.athens2004.com/athens2004/

Olympic Games
13-29 Aug. 2004

 

[Bee]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
You don't seem to get it. The purpose of the trials is to pick the best team to compete at the Olympics. Rules such as unintentionally breaking early should not stop us picking our best team.

Yes I do get it, it's you or doesn't get it. Whether it's a trial or a final the rules still remain the same.
By your reckoning, if the reigning champion in an event has a bad day and finishes out of a place then he should still be picked because we all know he is the best. Even though he never really qualified.

Originally posted by NMWBloods

If Thorpe does the same thing in Athens then of course he doesn't get another chance. However, at that stage it is the actual Olympics and it is a real event.

There is no difference with the rules though. That's my point. Why do you take notice of the same rule in a final and not in a trial? I don't care if trials are to pick the best or not. "The best" broke the rules. Tough luck, but that's the way it goes.
And until they change the rules then it will always remain the same.

Originally posted by NMWBloods



The most ridiculous thing of the whole affair is that he was disqualified in the first place. He should have been allowed to get pack on the blocks and the race run normally.

But that's the whole point, isn't it? he wasn't allowed to race because he was automatically disqualified. Which means he has no right to race at all.
You may think the rule is stupid, and it probably is, but you can't waive the rules for one person.

 

[otaku]

Originally posted by Bee
No, he never earned it. He was disqualified. To qualify you needed to finish 1st or 2nd. He didn't even race. So he didn't earn it! That fact that he is Ian Thorpe doesn't mean he should be treated any differently.

Bad luck or not, he broke the rules.

I believe the rules are stupid, but everyone has to abide by them.

as i said before - narrow minded, beaurocratic interpretations of the rules will never allow them to improve.

Look beyond the rules(which in this case are the problem) to the bigger picture.

 

[DaveW]

The affection some people have for draconian qualification rules is really quite astounding.

 

[otaku]

Originally posted by feher
ok he gave up his position but why does it goto thorpe? he didn't finish the race! their is no logic to this, if you hold trials to goto the olympics then do it, don't bs around.

and he may have being beaten had he not fallen into the pool, we will never know.

which is why the race should have been run WITH Thorpe in the race, not disqualified becase of some beaurocratic red tape.

then why swim the race? why does thorpe get the position infront of the 3rd place finisher, did anyone ask the 3rd place finisher if he would like to swim the 400m, he earnt it more so then thorpe! in terms of qualifing

simple he didn't qualify, he didn't even place in the race.

he swam the race (i would guess) to pit himself against the best swimmer (Thorpe) to see how he would do. He swam it for practise maybe...who know - ask him, not me.

Stevens knows he wouldnt have placed if thorpe had swum the race. He is just offering the best compromise he can because of a beaurocratic stuff up.

 

[feher]

Originally posted by otaku
as i said before - narrow minded, beaurocratic interpretations of the rules will never allow them to improve.

Look beyond the rules(which in this case are the problem) to the bigger picture.

tell me, why is the rule in place*? as i said before the governing body that came up with the rules must have thought about such a thing happening, they have just gone not only back on it, but have completely ignored the logic of picking the next swimmer in line to compete which is the 3rd place finisher.


*my guess is so its the same as the olympics, no 2nd chances if you stuff up, but they haven't followed through.

 

[otaku]

Originally posted by feher
tell me, why is the rule in place*? as i said before the governing body that came up with the rules must have thought about such a thing happening, they have just gone not only back on it, but have completely ignored the logic of picking the next swimmer in line to compete which is the 3rd place finisher.


*my guess is so its the same as the olympics, no 2nd chances if you stuff up, but they haven't followed through.

Why was there a law that said (until recently) that a woman in England wearing make-up could be burnt as a witch??


Just cause there are rules doesnt mean those rules are correct.

 

[feher]

Originally posted by otaku
which is why the race should have been run WITH Thorpe in the race, not disqualified becase of some beaurocratic red tape.

hmm beaurocratic? how? thorpe gets to swim the 400m, not the 3rd place finisher

Originally posted by otaku
he swam the race (i would guess) to pit himself against the best swimmer (Thorpe) to see how he would do. He swam it for practise maybe...who know - ask him, not me.

should be banned for life from swimming the 400m competitively. He also was think about going to the olympics i don't think he did it for practice, hell he could have practice else where.

Originally posted by otaku
Stevens knows he wouldnt have placed if thorpe had swum the race. He is just offering the best compromise he can because of a beaurocratic stuff up.

what does where he place have to do with anything, he earnt the right. Why does stevens get to choose who gets his spot, now that is beaurocratic!

 

[feher]

Originally posted by otaku
Why was there a law that said (until recently) that a woman in England wearing make-up could be burnt as a witch??


Just cause there are rules doesnt mean those rules are correct.

didn't you say my bonds thing didn't have any relevance, at least mine was sports based. Look we aren't talking about life or death are we?

Lets say the rules are changed to 2 or 3, what if thorpe stuffed up by 'bad luck' 2/3 times, should the race be re-run?

 

[otaku]

Originally posted by feher
hmm beaurocratic? how? thorpe gets to swim the 400m, not the 3rd place finisher

becuase he was disqualified for falling over.........i thought that would have been obvious

should be banned for life from swimming the 400m competitively. He also was think about going to the olympics i don't think he did it for practice, hell he could have practice else where.

git yer hand off it, knobjockey. Banned for what? What did he do wrong?

what does where he place have to do with anything, he earnt the right. Why does stevens get to choose who gets his spot, now that is beaurocratic!

Stevens doesnt chose who gets his spot - he simply stands down.

 

[otaku]

Originally posted by feher
didn't you say my bonds thing didn't have any relevance, at least mine was sports based. Look we aren't talking about life or death are we?

wow, you dont think too much, do ya?

I was highlighting the absurdity that some laws represent.

just because a rule is stated, doesnt mean it is correct.

 

[feher]

Originally posted by otaku
becuase he was disqualified for falling over.........i thought that would have been obvious

makes no sense, he didn't finish the race, do you understand that? if i was buddy with stevens could he chose me to take his spot? i doubt it!

Originally posted by otaku
git yer hand off it, knobjockey. Banned for what? What did he do wrong?

not responding to insults, reword it and i will respond.

Originally posted by otaku
Stevens doesnt chose who gets his spot - he simply stands down.

what? where is the logic of thorpe going and not the 3rd place finisher? where is the logic that thorpe automatically gets the spot?

 

[feher]

Originally posted by otaku
wow, you dont think too much, do ya?

I was highlighting the absurdity that some laws represent.

just because a rule is stated, doesnt mean it is correct.

i know what your saying, i still don't like the 'selection' criteria.