Cricket Discussion - Part 3

[Grave Danger]

I wonder what rating match referee Andy Piecrust will submit to the ICC for the SCG pitch - will he go a 'substandard' (unsatisfactory or unfit)? Be funny if the Indians complain about it though, as it should've been a gift for their star bowler, if he was able to last the distance...

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I wonder what rating match referee Andy Piecrust will submit to the ICC for the SCG pitch - will he go a 'substandard' (unsatisfactory or unfit)? Be funny if the Indians complain about it though, as it should've been a gift for their star bowler, if he was able to last the distance...

Yes, he was less Colin Croft and more Colin from Accounts by the end (sorry REH )

 

[Ford Fairlane]

The Giants media team hard at work using the Indian team as a punchline

 

[Ford Fairlane]

 

[philreich]

For those who thought that Pat Cummins was a questionable choice as skipper - yesterday's win was his 20th as captain in 33 Tests. He has a higher win/loss percentage than the great Ken Hinkley .

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Saw an interesting take from an Indian fan over Kohli's sandpaper panto. Apparently that was losing with dignity. Not like those CHEATING AUSTRALIANS!

 

[EskimoPAFC]

For those who thought that Pat Cummins was a questionable choice as skipper - yesterday's win was his 20th as captain in 33 Tests. He has a higher win/loss percentage than the great Ken Hinkley .

Very hard to argue against, especially given hes also delivered a WTC and 2 world cup titles as well...

But I wanted Head

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Pat Cummins channeling his inner Josh Carr

 

[philreich]

Saw an interesting take from an Indian fan over Kohli's sandpaper panto. Apparently that was losing with dignity. Not like those CHEATING AUSTRALIANS!

And I suppose that if Webster had shoulder charged Kohli, that would have constituted winning with dignity?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

When neither of them brought the trophy out before the opening day I wondered if AB's absence was due to his heath situation, and for that reason maybe they didn't want to go with just Sunny, so had neither. The pettiness between rival broadcasters sounds more plausible though, sadly.

First day in Perth both Border and Gavaskar brought it out, holding one "handle" each and then for other 4 tests, a couple of Aussie greats and a couple Indian greats, brought it out and put the BGT on the podium and the official ceremony started after this, for all 5 tests.

As Crash Craddock said this morning, too much copying AFL marketing BS by Cricket Oz, when Leigh Matthews presented the cup to Fagan and Andrews last season after they won the GF. Border can shake the player of the match and the series hand, but both Border and Gavaskar should have handed the trophy over to Cummins.

No big deal, life goes on, but get rid of the shit for brains organiser of the presentation, so it doesnt happen again.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

What shit would have been posted on social media between 1978 and 1994 when the Windies were dominating world cricket??

Twitter is an extreme social media platform, either useful information and videos or a home for spazo's to feel like they are participating in democracy, and not much in between.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

What shit would have been posted on social media between 1978 and 1994 when the Windies were dominating world cricket??

Twitter is an extreme social media platform, either useful information and videos or a home for spazo's to feel like they are participating in democracy, and not much in between.

Awful lot of bots and fake accounts (eg. Russians pretending to be Americans) too.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Awful lot of bots and fake accounts (eg. Russians pretending to be Americans) too.

I don't think the yanks and russian bots were talking cricket the last few weeks.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I don't think the yanks and russian bots were talking cricket the last few weeks.

Probably not, but I did get a little suspicious when one of them started talking about Kohli hitting a massive home run

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

When Smith got out yesterday I couldn't help but think that his last 20 tests productivity, is about the same as his first 20 tests productivity.

And the question that has been asked a bit over the last 7 or 8 years, is he the 2nd best Aussie batsman after Bradman, or does Ponting or Greg Chappell take that position?

So I did a Statguru query and got;

Period	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0
Mar-14​	20	38	4	1361	138*	40.02	2633	51.69	4	6	2
Feb-23​	94	166	21	8718	239	60.12	16080	54.21	30	37	9
Jan-25​	114	204	25	9999	239	55.86	18671	53.55	34	41	11

Period

Mat

Inns

NO

Runs

HS

Ave

BF

SR

100

50

0

% Inn 50+

1st

20​

38​

4​

1361​

138*​

40.02​

2633​

51.69​

4​

6​

2​

26.3%​

Last

20​

38​

4​

1281​

140​

37.68​

2591​

49.44​

4​

4​

2​

21.1%​

Middle

74​

128​

17​

7357​

239​

66.28​

13447​

54.71​

26​

31​

7​

44.5%​

His career average was 59 or greater between his 49th and 99th test, with his highest average at the end of a test in that period, being 64.56 after the 5th test in England in September 2019, and his lowest was 59.32 at end of his 52nd test in March 2017, after the 2nd test in India.

His test average at end of his 99th test was 59.56 which was after 2nd test in England in 2023.

That 51 test sequence is a long stretch for a career average of 59+. Its longer than Bradman had, as he didn't get to a 59+ average until at the end of his 4th test which was the 5th and final test of the 1928/29 season, and he finished the series with 468 runs at and average of 66.86. He then went to England 16 months later and went bang. So Bradman had 49 consecutive tests with a career average of 59+.

Ponting I thought might have more tests where his average was 59+ for a longer consecutive streak, as he was averaging 59 and 60 for a chunk of time. But when I did the stats guru query, is was only 7 tests in a row between his 106th and 112th test of his 168 tests. Ponting's last 50 tests his average went from 58.72 to 51.85.

I know Viv Richards first half of his career he averaged 60 and the second half only 40, to end up with an average of just over 50, but he only had 14 consecutive tests where his career average was 59+.

Ok got a bit of help from this table at Howstat - Players Batting 30 Innings with Average Never Less Than 40.00

Test Cricket - Players with Batting Average Never Less then 40.00

Test Cricket - Players with Batting Average Never Less then 40.00

www.howstat.com

Herbert Sutcliffe played 54 tests and his career average was never below 60!!. At end of his first test it was 64, and his lowest ever, 60.73, was after his final innings. He made 61 in his 3rd last innings, his average before that innings was 61.85, didn't bat in the second innings and in his last test made 3 and 38, and that dropped his average below 61 for the first time in his career. He was 38 when he last played his last test.

Think Bert holds the record then, at 54 consecutive tests of an average of 59+. I can't think of anyone else better.

This is his career end stats. 46.4% of his innings were 50+ scores, Bradman's was 52.5%, but the Don was a hell of a lot better at converting 50's into 100's than Bert.

Player

Country

Career

Mat

Inns

NO

Runs

HS

100s

50s

Avg

H Sutcliffe​

England​

1924-1935​

54​

84​

9​

4555​

194​

16​

23​

60.73​

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The Futures Programming for Oz looks interesting over next 26 months. No shortage of games and a Champions Trophy and a T20 WC tournament on top of tours to different nations, and them visiting our shores.

You can see how the big 3 are going to make sure they play each other as much as possible. India returns to Oz next year to play 3 ODIs and 5 T20s before the Oz test season starts with an Ashes series. Then the next year England comes to Oz to play 3 ODIs and 5 T20s before the Oz test season starts with a 4 test series against the Kiwis.

Australia’s FTP: Who, where and when of international cricket | cricket.com.au

Every bilateral series and ICC event for Australia's senior men's and women's teams as laid out in…

www.cricket.com.au

December-January: Five-Test Border-Gavaskar series v India

✈ February: Two Tests and one ODI tour of Sri Lanka

✈ February-March: ICC Champions Trophy (50-over) tournament – Pakistan

2025-26​

✈ June: World Test Championship final – Lord's (if qualified) YES qualified v SAF

✈ June-July: Three Tests, three ODI and three T20 tour of the West Indies June/July Oz in Caribbean is now normal

August: Three ODIs and three T20s v South Africa (To be played in northern Australia)

✈ October: Three T20 tour of New Zealand

October-November: Three ODIs and five T20s v India

December-January: Five-Test Ashes series v England

✈ February: Three T20s tour of Pakistan

✈ February-March: T20 World Cup – India and Sri Lanka

✈ March: Three ODIs tour of Pakistan

2026-27​

✈ June: Three ODIs and three T20s tour of Bangladesh

August: One Test and three T20s v Afghanistan (northern Australia)

✈ September-October: Three Tests and three ODIs tour of South Africa

November-December: Three ODIs and five T20s v England

December-January: Four Tests v New Zealand (Perth-Adelaide-Melbourne-Sydney) Brisbane needs a new Stadium

✈ January-February: Five-Test Border-Gavaskar Series tour of India

March: 150th anniversary Test v England (MCG). Two Tests v Bangladesh (reportedly set to be moved, but unconfirmed)

1977 Centenary test there were 244 blokes who had played at least 1 Ashes test match still alive and 218 of them attended the centenary test including 84 year old Percy Fender who flew in from England. Herbert Sutcliffe was too ill to attend but he was in his mid 80's. Former Oz captain Jack Ryder was 87 and the oldest attendee. He passed away a week or so, after the test match.

Will be interesting to see how big the 150th anniversary game is. The Centenary Test was a great test, maybe not the best ever but maybe the most emotional ever with so many past players at the one game.

Unfortunately many of the players from 1977 have passed away - Rod Marsh, Tony Greig, David Hookes, Max Walker, Derek Underwood, Bob Woolmer, Bob Willis and Gary Gilmour. Most of the players will be 80+ with a few in their mid to late 70's.

 

[raptalia]

In this morning's press Ben Horne puts forward the theory that even if Pat Cummins does not tour and Josh Hazelwood is given a longer recuperation there is no guarantee that Scott Boland will line up in the First Test in Sri Lanka. I cannot see that happening and I would prefer Boland to Hazelwood even if the latter is fit. Hazelwood needs a long spell to get his body right. It will be hard to keep a player who has taken 56 wickets at 17.66 out of the side. Admittedly 49 of those wickets have been in Australia but Boland has the advantage of being extremely economical and durable. He is the sort of bowler who could bowl all day at one end while Nathan Lyon operates at the other end.

 

[Rising Power]

I wonder if the Taliban will yet again ignore CA's threats to cancel the August 2026-27 Afghanistan tour unless women are allowed to play cricket. They'll be shaking in their boots for sure.

I respect CA's stance but it is bemusing that they don't forfeit ICC tournament matchups v AFG, or ban Afghans from playing in the BBL (yes I know it's not their fault, similar to Russians at the Olympics, tennis etc), to reinforce it.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I wonder if the Taliban will yet again ignore CA's threats to cancel the August 2026-27 Afghanistan tour unless women are allowed to play cricket. They'll be shaking in their boots for sure.

I respect CA's stance but it is bemusing that they don't forfeit ICC tournament matchups v AFG, or ban Afghans from playing in the BBL (yes I know it's not their fault, similar to Russians at the Olympics, tennis etc), to reinforce it.

South African individuals were never banned from playing in Australia, when the apartheid bans were on between 1970 and 1990. CA isn't going to ban Rashid Khan and co from the BBL.

 

[JimmyBC]

RussellEbertHandball what's your thoughts on this two tier test status idea they are floating through the media?

It feels like the vibe is all about India, Australia & England playing each other more and everyone else can go to hell.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

RussellEbertHandball what's your thoughts on this two tier test status idea they are floating through the media?

It feels like the vibe is all about India, Australia & England playing each other more and everyone else can go to hell.

Yeah its BS.

I heard on SEN, that it was going to be split into a 7 team comp and a 5 team comp. It just means that the big 3 play each other more often, as I picked up yesterday when I saw the Future Programming schedule for Oz

I assume the 7 team will be Oz, NZ, Ind, Eng, SAF, Sri Lanka and Windies and because of the political divisions and that under Modi, the Hindu push and crack down on some Muslim group freedoms, Pakistan will be dumped to tier 2 and play Afghanistan and they can travel there and play games, Bangers, Ireland and the Zimbos.

It means the 2nd tiered team are never going to bridge that gap.

Before Robert Mugabe went crazy and started to **** up Zimbabwe and steal everything from white people, Zimbabwe were able to be pretty competitive at Test and ODI cricket with the big boys, having the Flower brothers, Heath Streak almost did the 2000/200 double, David Houghton, Murray Goodwin, Alistair Campbell, Paul Strang, Henry Olonga etc. Now they have no hope of getting close if they rarely play the big 3. South Africa will take up a bit of the slack and play them a bit but its not a great thing for them.

It looks like the ICC is happy for them to basically contribute via white ball cricket and the the ODI and T20 World Cups.

The ICC make about $600m USD a year, 90+% from TV monies, as there is now a big ICC tournament on every year, and an 8 year planning cycle, with either WC, T20WC, Champions Trophy, plus they have women's WC events and U/19 events in the year of the Champions trophy, and most of the money comes from Indian TV. They will have to pour a shit load of develop monies into the 2nd tier if they are going to deny them opportunities.

Its a bit like the AFL - give the best timeslots and free TV coverage to the big drawing clubs, and compensate the small drawing clubs with bigger distributions from the central pool.

Current men's 8 year cycle, start after 2023 WC ended, and goes to the end of 2031 WC and the cycle is;

2024 T20 WC 20 teams, 55 matches in USA and West Indies India beat SAF
2025 Champions Trophy ODIs top 8 teams, 15 matches in Pakistan + World Test Championship match Lord's
2026 T20 WC 20 teams, 55 matches in India and Sri Lanka
2027 WC 14 teams, 54 matches in South Africa, Zimbabwe and Namibia
2028 T20 WC 20 teams, 55 matches in Oz and NZ
2029 Champions Trophy ODIs top 8 teams, 15 matches in India + World Test Championship match Lord's
2030 T20 WC 20 teams, 55 matches in England Ireland and Scotland
2031 WC 14 teams, 54 matches in India and Bangladesh + World Test Championship match Lord's


Current women's 8 year cycle is;

2024 T20 WC 10 teams, 23 matches in UAE NZ beat SAF
2025 WC 8 teams, 31 matches in India
2026 T20 WC 12 teams, 33 matches in England
2027 T20 Champions Trophy 6 teams, 16 matches in Sri Lanka - to be confirmed
2028 T20 WC 12 teams, 33 matches in Pakistan - to be confirmed
2029 WC 10 teams, 48 matches
2030 T20 WC 12 teams, 33 matches
2031 T20 Champions Trophy 6 teams 16 matches

The men's Champion's Trophy isn't as big as the two WC's so the ICC have the women's ODI WC in those years to boost TV monies.

And for the extra India TV rights monies, the U/19 WCs for boys and girls cycle is;

2024 Boy's WC in SAF Oz beat India
2025 Girl's T20 WC in Malaysia
2026 Boy's WC in Zimbabwe and Namibia
2027 Girl's T20 WC in Bangladesh and Nepal
2028 Boy's WC
2029 Girl's T20 WC
2030 Boy's WC
2031 Girl's T20 WC

 

[Grave Danger]

And stink it up he has - Mitch Marsh out first ball for the orange team tonite.

 

[JimmyBC]

Yeah its BS.

I heard on SEN, that it was going to be split into a 7 team comp and a 5 team comp. It just means that the big 3 play each other more often, as I picked up yesterday when I saw the Future Programming schedule for Oz

I assume the 7 team will be Oz, NZ, Ind, Eng, SAF, Sri Lanka and Windies and because of the political divisions and that under Modi, the Hindu push and crack down on some Muslim group freedoms, Pakistan will be dumped to tier 2 and play Afghanistan and they can travel there and play games, Bangers, Ireland and the Zimbos.

It means the 2nd tiered team are never going to bridge that gap.

Before Robert Mugabe went crazy and started to **** up Zimbabwe and steal everything from white people, Zimbabwe were able to be pretty competitive at Test and ODI cricket with the big boys, having the Flower brothers, Heath Streak almost did the 2000/200 double, David Houghton, Murray Goodwin, Alistair Campbell, Paul Strang, Henry Olonga etc. Now they have no hope of getting close if they rarely play the big 3. South Africa will take up a bit of the slack and play them a bit but its not a great thing for them.

It looks like the ICC is happy for them to basically contribute via white ball cricket and the the ODI and T20 World Cups.

The ICC make about $600m USD a year, 90+% from TV monies, as there is now a big ICC tournament on every year, and an 8 year planning cycle, with either WC, T20WC, Champions Trophy, plus they have women's WC events and U/19 events in the year of the Champions trophy, and most of the money comes from Indian TV. They will have to pour a shit load of develop monies into the 2nd tier if they are going to deny them opportunities.

Its a bit like the AFL - give the best timeslots and free TV coverage to the big drawing clubs, and compensate the small drawing clubs with bigger distributions from the central pool.

Current men's 8 year cycle, start after 2023 WC ended, and goes to the end of 2031 WC and the cycle is;

2024 T20 WC 20 teams, 55 matches in USA and West Indies India beat SAF
2025 Champions Trophy ODIs top 8 teams, 15 matches in Pakistan + World Test Championship match Lord's
2026 T20 WC 20 teams, 55 matches in India and Sri Lanka
2027 WC 14 teams, 54 matches in South Africa, Zimbabwe and Namibia
2028 T20 WC 20 teams, 55 matches in Oz and NZ
2029 Champions Trophy ODIs top 8 teams, 15 matches in India + World Test Championship match Lord's
2030 T20 WC 20 teams, 55 matches in England Ireland and Scotland
2031 WC 14 teams, 54 matches in India and Bangladesh + World Test Championship match Lord's


Current women's 8 year cycle is;

2024 T20 WC 10 teams, 23 matches in UAE NZ beat SAF
2025 WC 8 teams, 31 matches in India
2026 T20 WC 12 teams, 33 matches in England
2027 T20 Champions Trophy 6 teams, 16 matches in Sri Lanka - to be confirmed
2028 T20 WC 12 teams, 33 matches in Pakistan - to be confirmed
2029 WC 10 teams, 48 matches
2030 T20 WC 12 teams, 33 matches
2031 T20 Champions Trophy 6 teams 16 matches

The men's Champion's Trophy isn't as big as the two WC's so the ICC have the women's ODI WC in those years to boost TV monies.

And for the extra India TV rights monies, the U/19 WCs for boys and girls cycle is;

2024 Boy's WC in SAF Oz beat India
2025 Girl's T20 WC in Malaysia
2026 Boy's WC in Zimbabwe and Namibia
2027 Girl's T20 WC in Bangladesh and Nepal
2028 Boy's WC
2029 Girl's T20 WC
2030 Boy's WC
2031 Girl's T20 WC

I'd like us to play NZ & South Africa more often tbh and I get there's home summer clash scheduling issues, but there's gotta be some way.
As for the minnows the gulf will get montrously wide, I see a semblance of hope in Bangladesh & even Ireland to a degree however they need some love to progress, I'd like to see them get the off-broadway two test tours with games in places like Camberra & elsewhere.. didn't we do that sort of thing once upon a time?

 

[raptalia]

The Futures Programming for Oz looks interesting over next 26 months. No shortage of games and a Champions Trophy and a T20 WC tournament on top of tours to different nations, and them visiting our shores.

You can see how the big 3 are going to make sure they play each other as much as possible. India returns to Oz next year to play 3 ODIs and 5 T20s before the Oz test season starts with an Ashes series. Then the next year England comes to Oz to play 3 ODIs and 5 T20s before the Oz test season starts with a 4 test series against the Kiwis.

Australia’s FTP: Who, where and when of international cricket | cricket.com.au

Every bilateral series and ICC event for Australia's senior men's and women's teams as laid out in…

www.cricket.com.au

December-January: Five-Test Border-Gavaskar series v India

✈ February: Two Tests and one ODI tour of Sri Lanka

✈ February-March: ICC Champions Trophy (50-over) tournament – Pakistan

2025-26​

✈ June: World Test Championship final – Lord's (if qualified) YES qualified v SAF

✈ June-July: Three Tests, three ODI and three T20 tour of the West Indies June/July Oz in Caribbean is now normal

August: Three ODIs and three T20s v South Africa (To be played in northern Australia)

✈ October: Three T20 tour of New Zealand

October-November: Three ODIs and five T20s v India

December-January: Five-Test Ashes series v England

✈ February: Three T20s tour of Pakistan

✈ February-March: T20 World Cup – India and Sri Lanka

✈ March: Three ODIs tour of Pakistan

2026-27​

✈ June: Three ODIs and three T20s tour of Bangladesh

August: One Test and three T20s v Afghanistan (northern Australia)

✈ September-October: Three Tests and three ODIs tour of South Africa

November-December: Three ODIs and five T20s v England

December-January: Four Tests v New Zealand (Perth-Adelaide-Melbourne-Sydney) Brisbane needs a new Stadium

✈ January-February: Five-Test Border-Gavaskar Series tour of India

March: 150th anniversary Test v England (MCG). Two Tests v Bangladesh (reportedly set to be moved, but unconfirmed)

1977 Centenary test there were 244 blokes who had played at least 1 Ashes test match still alive and 218 of them attended the centenary test including 84 year old Percy Fender who flew in from England. Herbert Sutcliffe was too ill to attend but he was in his mid 80's. Former Oz captain Jack Ryder was 87 and the oldest attendee. He passed away a week or so, after the test match.

Will be interesting to see how big the 150th anniversary game is. The Centenary Test was a great test, maybe not the best ever but maybe the most emotional ever with so many past players at the one game.

Unfortunately many of the players from 1977 have passed away - Rod Marsh, Tony Greig, David Hookes, Max Walker, Derek Underwood, Bob Woolmer, Bob Willis and Gary Gilmour. Most of the players will be 80+ with a few in their mid to late 70's.


View attachment 2198916

Australia beat England by 45 runs in the Centenary Test in 1977 which is the same result and margin as the very first Test back in 1877. My most lasting memory was Derek Randall doffing his cap to Dennis Lillie after Lillee bowled him a bouncer that nearly decapitated him. It was the consummate response to a pretty intimidating delivery. Of course in those days the batsman faced the fastest of bowling without helmets. I think that was the game in which David Hookes hit Tony Greig for five consecutive fours.

In that game the batsmen did not wear helmets, they bowled eight ball overs and Sunday was a rest day.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

And stink it up he has - Mitch Marsh out first ball for the orange team tonite.

Big bison brought a lot of energy to the locker room though! He's a barometer!