Cripps or Oliver.

[ManOfClay]

My "eyes" tell me one of them is a dual position player thus making them more dynamic.

Who of these two is a dual position player?

 

[SickQwon]

Who of these two is a dual position player?

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2019-03-05/cripps-forward-thinking

Speaking to 1116 SEN, the co-captain revealed he had been spending more time at training working on his skills up forward as he prepares for the upcoming season.

“It’s probably the goalkicking and the craft element up forward that I’ve been working on.”

Additional time in the forward line could prove to be crucial for Cripps, allowing him to spend more time on the field and provide additional leadership to his younger teammates.

“I want to get up forward a bit more this year,” Cripps said.

 

[Deadpool]

I love trolling Carlton as much as anyone, but Cripps is probably in the top five players in the league and the best inside bull by a mile.

 

[ManOfClay]

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2019-03-05/cripps-forward-thinking

So Cripps wants to be a dual position player? Not is.

His 30 odd career goals to date suggest he’s a midfielder who occasionally has rested forward rather than a player who can play both positions at the top level

 

[SickQwon]

So Cripps wants to be a dual position player? Not is.

His 30 odd career goals to date suggest he’s a midfielder who occasionally has rested forward rather than a player who can play both positions at the top level

We're 4 games into the season. He played fwd throughout the JLT with much success and is having an impact in the forward 50 this season. He's a dual position player now, this is fact.

 

[Trav 20]

My "eyes" tell me one of them is a dual position player thus making them more dynamic.

Being multi-positional has nothing to do with being dynamic. Plenty of average players can play in more than one position on the ground.

Oliver is far more dynamic in the midfield than the robotic Cripps who lacks great ball use.

 

[Trav 20]

I love trolling Carlton as much as anyone, but Cripps is probably in the top five players in the league and the best inside bull by a mile.

I suspect you're young.

As I said in another thread, the best Carlton mid I've seen is Greg Williams, whose brilliance and creativity with his ball use was sublime. Cripps is a bull (and a great player), but rarely does anything that is noteworthy with his disposal.

 

[SickQwon]

Being multi-positional has nothing to do with being dynamic. Plenty of average players can play in more than one position on the ground.

Oliver is far more dynamic in the midfield than the robotic Cripps who lacks great ball use.

Hahahahahaha!

 

[ManOfClay]

We're 4 games into the season. He played fwd throughout the JLT with much success and is having an impact in the forward 50 this season. He's a dual position player now, this is fact.

He’s kicked 2 goals from four scoring shots and taken two marks inside 50 in four games.

Will need to see more from him before we call him a dual position player.

 

[Deadpool]

I suspect you're young.

As I said in another thread, the best Carlton mid I've seen is Greg Williams, whose brilliance and creativity with his ball use was sublime. Cripps is a bull (and a great player), but rarely does anything that is noteworthy with his disposal.

I suspect you fail to understand the premise of the thread.

Its not Williams v Oliver v Cripps. Its just Oliver v Cripps. And Cripps gaining crowded ball is probably the best I've ever seen.

And I have seen plenty of Williams. Williams had the deadliest handball of any centreman I've seen, could pinpoint a forward teammate from almost 30 yards blindfolded by hand. But again, irrelevant, principally because he's been retired for over two decades and the thread has nothing to do with him.

Cripps' disposal is often a result of having bugger all to aim at, and no time to decide which bugger-all area is preferable, not his lack of ability.

 

[Deadpool]

The other thing to remember is that Oliver has had solid bodies around him for his career, Cripps hasn't (what, midget Murphy?). Not to mention that Oliver has a top two ruckman in Gawn at his disposal. Cripps has Kreuzer (basically half mid/half ruckman anyway), Lobbe and Phillips (stifles grin) to give him basically nothing. And Cripps still shreds.

I couldn't really care less, unless either Oliver or Cripps wants to come to GC, but it's laughable to suggest that Oliver is a better player than Cripps.

 

[Trav 20]

I suspect you fail to understand the premise of the thread.

Its not Williams v Oliver v Cripps. Its just Oliver v Cripps. And Cripps gaining crowded ball is probably the best I've ever seen.

And I have seen plenty of Williams. Williams had the deadliest handball of any centreman I've seen, could pinpoint a forward teammate from almost 30 yards blindfolded by hand. But again, irrelevant, principally because he's been retired for over two decades and the thread has nothing to do with him.

Cripps' disposal is often a result of having bugger all to aim at, and no time to decide which bugger-all area is preferable, not his lack of ability.

Oh I get it.

Cripps is unlike most mids we've ever seen. When have we seen 195cm mids barging through packs with brute force ? But in other ways I find him quite a limited player.

Oliver is a different beast and for me the better actual ''footballer'', which I believe will be proven over time as he adds to his 60 odd game career. In football terms Oliver is still a baby, yet what he's done to date is remarkable.

We'll be able to make a call on these two in a decade. And even then it may not be clear.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Oliver just doesn't have any physical freakishness that sets him apart, which we generally see from the modern greats.

Judd - burst speed, very tall for a mid in his era
Ablett - incredible strength through his hips, and the Ablett bloodline
Dangerfield - burst speed, freakish athleticism to leap over other players and tall buildings


Then you have the new wave.

Cripps - tall and possibly the strongest player we've ever seen
Bont - tall and skilled

You also have guys like Mitchell and Oliver who can still be great if everything clicks, but don't have the physical gifts that readily sets them apart from their peers. They can still get there, it's just harder. And even harder to stay there.

The best thing Oliver has going for him is his age, as Trav20 has correctly pointed out. It's not even a fair comparison given Cripps is about to enter his prime and Oliver is still a kid. I think his ceiling is more of a Tom Mitchell though (top 10 player), but will never be in the conversation for the best in the league.

 

[00Stinger]

We're 4 games into the season. He played fwd throughout the JLT with much success and is having an impact in the forward 50 this season. He's a dual position player now, this is fact.

Yep. His 3 goals and 1 goal assist have been elite for a forward

 

[Juddernaut08]

Yep. His 3 goals and 1 goal assist have been elite for a forward

As opposed to Oliver's 0 goals? Nice one.

 

[00Stinger]

Oliver just doesn't have any physical freakishness that sets him apart, which we generally see from the modern greats.

Judd - burst speed, very tall for a mid in his era
Ablett - incredible strength through his hips, and the Ablett bloodline
Dangerfield - burst speed, freakish athleticism to leap over other players and tall buildings


Then you have the new wave.

Cripps - tall and possibly the strongest player we've ever seen
Bont - tall and skilled

You also have guys like Mitchell and Oliver who can still be great if everything clicks, but don't have the physical gifts that readily sets them apart from their peers. They can still get there, it's just harder. And even harder to stay there.

The best thing Oliver has going for him is his age, as Trav20 has correctly pointed out. It's not even a fair comparison given Cripps is about to enter his prime and Oliver is still a kid. I think his ceiling is more of a Tom Mitchell though (top 10 player), but will never be in the conversation for the best in the league.

Tbf Oliver has been much better than Dangerfield and Ablett as the same age. Not saying he will have a better career than them, that would be close to impossible but to dismiss it would be stupid.

As for the Tom Mitchell comparison, Mitchell won the brownlow medal and MVP last year and was most defiantly in the conversation for best in the game. The players and umpire seem to think he is. Hell even the coaches had him in the top 3.

 

[00Stinger]

As opposed to Oliver's 0 goals? Nice one.

No one is claiming that he is duel position player though

 

[00Stinger]

The other thing to remember is that Oliver has had solid bodies around him for his career, Cripps hasn't (what, midget Murphy?). Not to mention that Oliver has a top two ruckman in Gawn at his disposal. Cripps has Kreuzer (basically half mid/half ruckman anyway), Lobbe and Phillips (stifles grin) to give him basically nothing. And Cripps still shreds.

I couldn't really care less, unless either Oliver or Cripps wants to come to GC, but it's laughable to suggest that Oliver is a better player than Cripps.

He won the b&f in 2017 where Viney, Brayshaw, Gawn and Jones hardly played. In fact he played a lone hand in the midfield that year when we won 12 games

 

[Juddernaut08]

No one is claiming that he is duel position player though

Compared to Oliver, he is.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Tbf Oliver has been much better than Dangerfield and Ablett as the same age. Not saying he will have a better career than them, that would be close to impossible but to dismiss it would be stupid.

As for the Tom Mitchell comparison, Mitchell won the brownlow medal and MVP last year and was most defiantly in the conversation for best in the game. The players and umpire seem to think he is. Hell even the coaches had him in the top 3.

Exactly - I'm saying Oliver's ceiling is Tom Mitchell.

And that's the mutual respect that should be shown between these 2 guns. As I said, everything has to click for them to have a standout year. No-one would consider Mitchell a better player than Danger/Martin/Fyfe though, at any point in his career, despite having a better season in 2018.

 

[Trav 20]

Oliver just doesn't have any physical freakishness that sets him apart, which we generally see from the modern greats.

Judd - burst speed, very tall for a mid in his era
Ablett - incredible strength through his hips, and the Ablett bloodline
Dangerfield - burst speed, freakish athleticism to leap over other players and tall buildings


Then you have the new wave.

Cripps - tall and possibly the strongest player we've ever seen
Bont - tall and skilled

You also have guys like Mitchell and Oliver who can still be great if everything clicks, but don't have the physical gifts that readily sets them apart from their peers. They can still get there, it's just harder. And even harder to stay there.

The best thing Oliver has going for him is his age, as Trav20 has correctly pointed out. It's not even a fair comparison given Cripps is about to enter his prime and Oliver is still a kid. I think his ceiling is more of a Tom Mitchell though (top 10 player), but will never be in the conversation for the best in the league.

His speed into contests is the best I've ever seen. Most normal players decelerate. He's the opposite. His ability to then dish off to advantage is freakish.

Also, he already holds the all-time record for ground-ball gets in a season. Think about that for a moment. There are other records for Melbourne too, such as all-time disposal record, contested possessions, etc.

He also reached 20+ contested possessions 10 times quicker than anyone in history. Cripps was second.

 

[Juddernaut08]

His speed into contests is the best I've ever seen. Most normal players decelerate. He's the opposite. His ability to then dish off to advantage is freakish.

Also, he already holds the all-time record for ground-ball gets in a season. Think about that for a moment. There are other records for Melbourne too, such as all-time disposal record, contested possessions, etc.

He also reached 20+ contested possessions 10 times quicker than anyone in history. Cripps was second.

He's a gun, this has been established. None of the things you've listed are to do with his physical gifts or athleticism.

 

[Trav 20]

He's a gun, this has been established. None of the things you've listed are to do with his physical gifts or athleticism.

So coming third in the agility test at DC isn't a sign of physical prowess ? Large inside mids aren't always agile or quick.

I like his physical profile and I'm certain it plays a large part of his success.

Along with a high footy IQ.

 

[Juddernaut08]

So coming third in the agility test at DC isn't a sign of physical prowess ? Large inside mids aren't always agile or quick.

I like his physical profile and I'm certain it plays a large part of his success.

Along with a high footy IQ.

He's not unathletic, in fact based on what you're saying he's probably one of the better athletes in the game. He's not small, in fact he's a very good size.

He just doesn't have any freakish traits to set him apart. He can still do it by sheer effort, brains and improvement in skill, ala Tom Mitchell.

This shouldn't be taken as an attack, it's just a fact.

 

[Trav 20]

He's not unathletic, in fact based on what you're saying he's probably one of the better athletes in the game. He's not small, in fact he's a very good size.

He just doesn't have any freakish traits to set him apart. He can still do it by sheer effort, brains and improvement in skill, ala Tom Mitchell.

This shouldn't be taken as an attack, it's just a fact.

Except his football ability, which is why he's setting new records every year.