Cronulla a certainty

[storm fan]

The rest of your shit is petty and I don't see a point in squabbling over semantics. Let's talk about real issues. And before I start, this is no troll, or attempt to rub your nose in anything. My observations are well thought out and genuine. Please debate without cracking the shits.


Smith has been good but it's only a matter of time.

Here's what League people just don't understand:

1. There is no magic wand. It's not realistic to think League will come anywhere close to the AFL (in the near future) with regards to revenues and popularity.
2. The League fraternity were dirty on Gallop for being reactive. They just couldn't understand why League was miles behind AFL. It's only a matter of time before Smith gets the same treatment. League for the most part is run by men with working class values. It's all about a "fair go" and "he deserves it" rather than professional business practice. Just look at how Cronulla have capitulated over the PED affair.

How long will it be before and ex League personality is not happy and starts attacking from within?

3. I keep hearing League types say League is the world's best game. Subjectively, for these individuals it is. Objectively, it's not. League is one dimensional and more importantly has limited contested ball. Crash and bash from 3 meters away isn't everyone's cup of tea. One on one contested ball gets more bums on seats. (don't make me show you the figures). The League fraternity love to make excuses as to why the AFL is superior. Sure, the NRL have traditionally had bad management but at the end of the day the product is lacking. League people will never admit this (and fair enough because they love the game). So again, what it comes down to is blaming the CEO and descending into in fighting over inferior results. Just read the Tele. Every single day they bitch and moan about the AFL.

4. The TV rights. Great move by Smith. But let's dissect this realistically. The NRL doesn't have any live free to air games in Sydney, and certainly not much air time outside League heartland (NSW, QLD). They had to compromise and give this up to get the $1b. They made the right decision. They just needed to take the cash and sort the rest out next time. Apples to apples they didn't even get close to what the AFL got. The AFL got $1.4b, 9 lives games a week, free to air in NSW and QLD.

So what will Smith do? I know what he should do: spend the money on grass roots league in League heartland (NSW and QLD). Maintain the territory that it owns. Expand into existing stronholds (Ipswich, Central Coast). Next TV rights, go for more TV rights. Try to bridge the gap between the AFL and NRL.

What do the League fraternity want? They all want whats best for themselves which is not necessarily what is best for the game. The players want pay rises FFS. Tell them to go jump.

5. Expansion. Perth? Adelaide? Delusional shit right there. Sure it will get another game per week and increase TV rights, but can the NRL prop up a club in and AFL city for 20+ years? I doubt it. The easiest way to increase that TV money is by new clubs in League strongholds like SE Qld and Central Coast. Shore up this round, spend on grass roots, go for the big money and expansion next TV rights.

6. Cultural marketing. let's hope he shamelessly copies as many of the AFL ideas as possible (let's face it, the AFL do most of it better). They finally bit the bullet and dumped that stupid McIntyre finals system, Dally M is getting up to scratch (League players have stopped wearing jeans), but there's plenty more they should be lifting from the AFL. The commentators for a start. Need to start copying the AFL media, i.e. passes to Jarryd Hayne the Dally M medalist" or "Cooper Cronk the Churshill medalist". The AFL media put players on pedestals. At least Buzz is copying Mike Sheahan's top 50.


I'll be interested to see if Smith can keep the NRL "unions" at bay when they realise that the NRL won't be like the AFL overnight? The criticism will sink in, then different groups with different agendas will start inserting pressure........

It's a tough tough job and if Smith can fend off the inevitable critics and make the right decisions for the long term, then he can put them in a good spot in 5 years time.

Where in all of this:
1) replies to the comments I've made OR
2) is on topic

???

Ohhh, here we go I found it

At the end of the day that knob Irvine and his board threw other people under the bus to save their arses. As did Elkin. Asada have no real proof and seek to gain it via testimony. Not sure how a guy allegedly fit enough to run a football club couldn't see this and instructed his club to sit tight, say nothing, and let ASADA investigate?

Now people are talking and the more doubt around who is saying what, the more likely that people talk.

Don't get me wrong, I want the truth to come out, and anyone guilty of doping or involvement in systematic doping be penalised accordingly. But to the people who think Cronulla are being unfairly targeted - they brought it upon themselves.

No body in this thread has accused anybody of targeting Cronulla. That's our opinion o what the average Rugby League fan thinks based off a radio station call-in show that screens calls.

 

[bunsen burner]

No body in this thread has accused anybody of targeting Cronulla. That's our opinion o what the average Rugby League fan thinks based off a radio station call-in show that screens calls.

Where else would I find a League fan? It's not as if people actually talk about league at work, the pub, or at social gatherings. I dont know, must have something to do with lack of interest.

 

[robbieando]

Where else would I find a League fan? It's not as if people actually talk about league at work, the pub, or at social gatherings. I dont know, must have something to do with lack of interest.

Knowing you.... I doubt you would even bother to try, so its really a moot point. So your opinion on this topic and the interest levels of League fans anywhere in this country aren't even worth discussing.

So in the interest of this topic I would suggest you move along.

 

[balmainforever]

...Ignoring or not reading it isn't a excuse.

..and that's where it's going to come down to.
Suposedly "Guilty" of illegal drugs in the system but not knowing that it was there.

IGNORENCE IS NO EXCUSE!!

 

[storm fan]

Where else would I find a League fan? It's not as if people actually talk about league at work, the pub, or at social gatherings. I dont know, must have something to do with lack of interest.

You can find TGG fans around the world, you should find no shortage of fans in shire if indeed you do live there.

You can also find them in work, the pub, or at social gatherings, at the games, sports bars, on the street, government, public servants, junior footy etc etc too many to list.

 

[bunsen burner]

..and that's where it's going to come down to.
Suposedly "Guilty" of illegal drugs in the system but not knowing that it was there.

IGNORENCE IS NO EXCUSE!!

Not as cut and dried as that.

As far as I can tell it seems there was systematic doping at the Sharks. Some players went on with it after Dank was removed from the club. It's hard to tell who knew what. If it does end up that was systematic doping and the line was crossed by a fair margin, then there should be some heavy bans on those Shark's staff that were involved. How the players are punished depends on how much they knew and other mitigating factors. ASADA won't care a whole lot (and fair enough because a line has to be drawn). But players will sue and will have strong cases.

If what is reported to have happened at the Sharks happened then we have to wonder what went on at Essendon and Manly. I don't think any other clubs will be caught up outside these three.

 

[bunsen burner]

You can find TGG fans around the world, you should find no shortage of fans in shire if indeed you do live there.

You can also find them in work, the pub, or at social gatherings, at the games, sports bars, on the street, government, public servants, junior footy etc etc too many to list.

TGG? The Good Guys?

I know plenty of League fans and Sharks fans. It's just not talked about like other codes in public. But because I'm a football fan I have had the conversation with many League and Sharks fans. Lots of "why us" going on.

Had one of my son's mates Mum come over a couple of weeks back. Poor woman was in complete denial. Reminded me of all the West Coast supporters who were in denial about Cousins being a drug addict.

 

[balmainforever]

Sorry but either the players were ignorant or just plain stupid.
There is no way an elite sportsman (I know I'm stretching this with it being Cronulla) would not know what is going into them.

Hell, I'm no athlete but when I'm sick and go to the quacks, I always like to know what drugs he gives me to get well again. I have refused some medication because of what was in it.

 

[Northern_Union]

TGG? The Good Guys?

I know plenty of League fans and Sharks fans. It's just not talked about like other codes in public. But because I'm a football fan I have had the conversation with many League and Sharks fans. Lots of "why us" going on.

Had one of my son's mates Mum come over a couple of weeks back. Poor woman was in complete denial. Reminded me of all the West Coast supporters who were in denial about Cousins being a drug addict.

If your a league fan i'm surprised you don't know what TGG stands for. As for no one talking about league i guess it depends on where you live. I've lived in Auckland and i currently live in a small city in the middle of the south island of New Zealand and i can find plenty of people willing to talk about league in either place.

 

[storm fan]

If what is reported to have happened at the Sharks happened then we have to wonder what went on at Essendon and Manly. I don't think any other clubs will be caught up outside these three.

Well as we seen after today's event, no NRL club is under investigation for systematic doping other then what we already know.

TGG? The Good Guys?

I know plenty of League fans and Sharks fans. It's just not talked about like other codes in public. But because I'm a football fan I have had the conversation with many League and Sharks fans. Lots of "why us" going on.

That's your opinion. Not fact and it's something I don't find whenever I'm in NSW, QLD, ACT or NT.

As far as TGG goes, any fan or Rugby League know that what slogan that stands for. A slogan that is nearly as old as the great schism.

Hell, I'm no athlete but when I'm sick and go to the quacks, I always like to know what drugs he gives me to get well again. I have refused some medication because of what was in it.

I don't. My Doctor has been my doctor for life and I put my complete faith in this doctor. Whether that makes me stupid or not. I don't know

If your a league fan i'm surprised you don't know what TGG stands for. As for no one talking about league i guess it depends on where you live. I've lived in Auckland and i currently live in a small city in the middle of the south island of New Zealand and i can find plenty of people willing to talk about league in either place.

Don't let him confuse you. I've worked and lived in NSW, VIC & SA. As apart of a previous job I also had to travel to places throughout Sydney from Penrith to Cronulla and up throughout North Sydney. Also spent time in that job on works trips to places like Bathurst, Batemans Bay, Tammworth, Gunnedah, Mudgee, Dubbo, Wagga Wagga, Central Coast, The Gong, Gundagai & Griffith just to name a few. Never short of chat about League in any of those places.

For Christ sake. I spent the Canterbury v South Sydney finals game last year in Tammworth with the Rebel bikie gang.

 

[storm fan]

After today's events:

From a Rugby League perspective, it's a feeling of relief that the news of this investigation will include the interviewing of 31 current players and 10 former players. By no means does an interview with ASADA mean a certain person is guilty of anything. The other news is that aside from Cronulla there is no case of systematic doping in the NRL.

From a sports fan perspectve, it's interesting. With ASADA moving onto stage 2 of its investigation with the NRL, those original numbers of up to 150 people from across the NRL and AFL come back. It'll be interesting to see if that number still stands or not. If it does, It'll be interesting to see where those other up to 109 people come from.

 

[bunsen burner]

Sorry but either the players were ignorant or just plain stupid.
There is no way an elite sportsman (I know I'm stretching this with it being Cronulla) would not know what is going into them.

Hell, I'm no athlete but when I'm sick and go to the quacks, I always like to know what drugs he gives me to get well again. I have refused some medication because of what was in it.

Rubbish.

Imagine you are 18 and get drafted by Essendon - one of the most powerful football clubs in the country, who spend millions of dollars per year hiring the best sports staff available. You'd trust their professionalism that what they are putting into you is above board. Same goes if you are at an NRL club. These are professional organisations. The best of the best.

I'm not saying players definitely didn't know in this situation, I'm saying it's feasible that for a player to trust their club and to not be aware they are being given PEDs.

Manly were legally injecting their players with calves blood. Why would a player know this is legal or illegal? They knew it was legal because the sports scientist whose job it is to know where the legality line is, told them so.

 

[cos789]

It's amazing after all the hype nothing has emerged thus far.
Are football entities going to be able to sue for damages in nothing does eventuate.
On the ABC 4Corners experts exposed the guidlines as confusing and unclear and what chance did anyone outside the sports medicine business have of understanding the complexities. The only person who didn't come across as above board was the ASDA spokesman who seemed to be running from the heat now pointed at ASDA.
.

 

[Mint Condition]

It's amazing after all the hype nothing has emerged thus far.
Are football entities going to be able to sue for damages in nothing does eventuate.
On the ABC 4Corners experts exposed the guidlines as confusing and unclear and what chance did anyone outside the sports medicine business have of understanding the complexities. The only person who didn't come across as above board was the ASDA spokesman who seemed to be running from the heat now pointed at ASDA.
.

Not all of it is confusing or unclear. Specifically the WADA code says all substances that have not yet been approved for therapeutic use in humans are banned at all times. If you read the WADA prohibited list it's the very first point. At least one of the drugs that have been reported about (CJC-1295) was never approved for therapeutic use in humans. In fact in phase 2 clinical trials 3 people receiving the drug suffered heart attacks. It's potentially very dangerous, and even if it wasn't the fact it is a growth hormone stimulant is a pretty big red flag in terms of it being performance enhancing.

I think there's very little chance of nothing eventuating. I just hope that if drugs like this have been used that it hasn't been too widespread.

 

[cos789]

Not all of it is confusing or unclear. Specifically the WADA code says all substances that have not yet been approved for therapeutic use in humans are banned at all times. If you read the WADA prohibited list it's the very first point. At least one of the drugs that have been reported about (CJC-1295) was never approved for therapeutic use in humans. In fact in phase 2 clinical trials 3 people receiving the drug suffered heart attacks. It's potentially very dangerous, and even if it wasn't the fact it is a growth hormone stimulant is a pretty big red flag in terms of it being performance enhancing.

I think there's very little chance of nothing eventuating. I just hope that if drugs like this have been used that it hasn't been too widespread.

According to the report the confusing part is that it is not exactly about the drugs but in what context the drugs were used. Drugs used for the repair of muscular damage are OK, but not for muscular enhancement.

I would find it extremely dissappointing if a lot of players were penalised when quite clearly it was pivotal on a few persons pushing the envelope and selling the idea that is was all above board.

This seems all a bit of a waste of time really.
The focus should be more on current or recent premiers, grand finalists, finalists down the line.
I don't really care that these teams might have done something dodgey in the past, they didn't win some didn't even do very well. So much for "performance enhancing".
I do care that nobody is cheating now and learnt the lessons.

 

[Mint Condition]

According to the report the confusing part is that it is not exactly about the drugs but in what context the drugs were used. Drugs used for the repair of muscular damage are OK, but not for muscular enhancement.

I think the problem is clubs relying on under-qualified people to look after some of this stuff. I know that athletes can apply for therapeutic use exemptions if they need to use a prohibited drug to treat a specific condition. That's pretty specific though. I don't think there's any other grey area.

A lot of people don't get that if a drug gets put on the banned list it doesn't matter whether you took it before it was specifically added. Each section of the prohibited list says something along the lines of "and any other drug with a similar effect." But where it's particularly cut and dried is in cases like CJC-1295 which is a growth hormone stimulant used in the body building industry, that has never been cleared for therapeutic use in humans (i.e. it never passed clinical trials to begin with).

I would find it extremely dissappointing if a lot of players were penalised when quite clearly it was pivotal on a few persons pushing the envelope and selling the idea that is was all above board.

My understanding is that if players can prove they were not at fault nor negligent they can escape sanction. But to prove they weren't negligent is apparently very difficult.

The focus should be more on current or recent premiers, grand finalists, finalists down the line.
I don't really care that these teams might have done something dodgey in the past, they didn't win some didn't even do very well. So much for "performance enhancing".
I do care that nobody is cheating now and learnt the lessons.

"It didn't work well enough" isn't a defence for cheating.

 

[cos789]

A lot of the ABC report was focussed on drugs that weren't on the banned list but used "therapeutically" so how does an exemption there come into play ?

.

 

[Mint Condition]

A lot of the ABC report was focussed on drugs that weren't on the banned list but used "therapeutically" so how does an exemption there come into play ?

I guess it would depend what type of drug it was and if they were in contact with ASADA about its use at the time.

But the drugs that I've seen reported about are ones that stimulate growth hormones. These are the not the sort of drugs that would need to be used by a professional athlete for legitimate medical reasons. The people that need these drugs are like kids with growth disorders.

A lot of performance enhancing drugs are used to reduce recovery time, allowing athletes to train harder for longer. I'm pretty sure this wouldn't be accepted as a "therapeutic" use.

I didn't see the ABC report though and I'm not an expert on this anyway...I've just done a bit of reading since this whole story broke. There might be some legitimate confusion around the use of some drugs...but I can guarantee you that CJC-1295 is certainly not one with any grey area.

 

[papabear]

Where else would I find a League fan? It's not as if people actually talk about league at work, the pub, or at social gatherings. I dont know, must have something to do with lack of interest.

lol if your from sydney then you are in a very limited social scene.

I honestly can't believe you are from sydney and don't know a single league fan. Do you know like 3 people in sydney?

Also if you honestly believe there is that limited interest in league why would you post the above unless you were trolling

 

[Aucklander]

Given how the Wade Graham interview went, this is going to be a very, very long process.

 

[Matt Stevic]

I absolutely love Cronulla. They're just like the St. Kilda of the NRL. Despite having won a grand total of nothing in every year since 1967, they still manage to be the second scummiest team in the league (thanks Carlton/Canterbury).