Cummins Overrated?

[PhatBoy]

I always find it weird we make a huge deal when visiting side drop a few catches and loses game but we drop 3-4 and lose tight match its not really a talking point, windies fielded better this series and it cost us a series win

I’m not saying it would have changed the result but the closest thing to a game defining top order partnership in Adelaide was Head-Khawaja. We dropped Khawaja on 3. They put on 50 for the fourth wicket.
Given the frailties of our batting it probably wouldn’t have made a huge difference anyway but the context of the game could have been a lot different so it still works both ways

 

[Black Diamond]

I always find it weird we make a huge deal when visiting side drop a few catches and loses game but we drop 3-4 and lose tight match its not really a talking point, windies fielded better this series and it cost us a series win

I’m not saying it would have changed the result but the closest thing to a game defining top order partnership in Adelaide was Head-Khawaja. We dropped Khawaja on 3. They put on 50 for the fourth wicket.
Given the frailties of our batting it probably wouldn’t have made a huge difference anyway but the context of the game could have been a lot different so it still works both ways

I’m always hot on dropping simple catches.

I’m raising it now given the talk is about our tired bowlers costing us. It wasn’t that.

 

[Soggy2112]

It was, but it’s worth remembering and I hope West Indies fans themselves don’t forget the (basically) 150 run stand from 5-64 between a guy in his second match who made no runs on debut and a guy hadn’t passed 50 in 19 test innings and played two shots in Adelaide that would have gotten him dropped in a stronger side. There was a dropped catch in that stand but it was right near the end of it when I think Hodge was telegraphing that he was spent, albeit Da Silva was the first to go.

That was a phenomenal partnership given the context, I definitely thought Da Silva was just going to walk in to the trap again and probably so did the Aussies but it was a determined innings.

Tbh I saw him as a talented player who didn’t have the temperament for test cricket before that innings but he proved me wrong. Hopefully he can now be consistent.

 

[PhatBoy]

That was a phenomenal partnership given the context, I definitely thought Da Silva was just going to walk in to the trap again and probably so did the Aussies but it was a determined innings.

Tbh I saw him as a talented player who didn’t have the temperament for test cricket before that innings but he proved me wrong. Hopefully he can now be consistent.

I remember probably two years before his test debut a guy I used to frequently chat to in a West Indies Facebook fan page tipped him to me and said he has the ability and temperament to be a test quality batsman. Soon enough he’d hit one or two first class hundreds and he was near the test side and he made some good scores as soon as he was picked and at that point it was his actual temperament that stood out in a team not renowned for it.

I think it’s not enough anymore for a keeper to JUST bat. They have to be able to have shots and he knows that but hes just got to pick his moments: I think he wanted desperately in the second dig to make that counter punching 40-50 that would carry us to a 280+ lead and he saw a half volley to get him started but again it just wasn’t the moment and he would have been kicking himself after the way he played on day one and saying ‘why didn’t I just back myself to see off the first 10 overs and concede them to the bowlers and THEN lift things.’

 

[the_interloper]

Worst strike rate and average of all our bowlers so far this series. Has struggled to lead the attack this Test. At least he's been economical.

I mean, I rate him, but he doesn't get nearly as much stick as someone like Starc - which seems odd given their respective returns.

I love this post, at least you had a crack back in the day but is shaping as an ordinary take ha ha

 

[DaRick]

Here he is, redefining the word 'overrated' by winning Wisden's The Leading Men's Cricketer in the World in 2023.

Why can't all our players be overrated like that?

Pat Cummins - The Leading Men's Cricketer in the World in 2023

Australia's captain was the most influential figure in men's cricket last year

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[DaRick]

My theory with NSW and cricket is that the alternative is rugby. While in Vic the alternative is Aussie Rules . Cricket body types are more likely to fit into Aussie Rules than Rugby. So in Vic SA WA TAS we lose cricketers to AFL while not so much cricketers to rugby. .
Hey it’s a theory.

True, but I've always gotten the feeling that a lot of AFL players-cum-cricketers wouldn't be international standard, anyway.

It has an effect, but IMO significantly less than people think.

 

[Gethelred]

True, but I've always gotten the feeling that a lot of AFL players-cum-cricketers wouldn't be international standard, anyway.

It has an effect, but IMO significantly less than people think.

Aussie rules has a tremendous impact on Australian cricket, which is why - when you get cricketers from the southern and western states, born and raised on the stuff - Australians have a reputation worldwide as a strong fielding side.

Footy skills teach fielding better than fielding drills do.

 

[Soggy2112]

Aussie rules has a tremendous impact on Australian cricket, which is why - when you get cricketers from the southern and western states, born and raised on the stuff - Australians have a reputation worldwide as a strong fielding side.

Footy skills teach fielding better than fielding drills do.

Is that really it? Sure, guys that played footy and cricket would likely have developed more athleticism than those that only played cricket but that’d be the extent of it.

Australian cricket (before the rest of the world caught up) was known for being great at fielding largely because they prioritised it. It’s widely accepted as one of the key reasons they were able to upset everyone and win the 1987 World Cup. It’s always been an expectation that you be a good fielder if you’re going to play at the top level. You look at the Aussie team now and you’d probably say the two worst fielders are Khawaja, who still is able to field slips and rarely drops them, and Head, who pulled off probably the most important catch I’ve ever seen. I’d argue that’s because even though they aren’t athletically gifted fielders in the way that Warner, Labuschagne or Green are, it’s been expected of them from a young age in the elite pathways that they get their fielding up to a high standard. I don’t think footy has a whole lot to do with it.

Warner, Labuschagne, Smith, Symonds, Clarke, Mark Waugh etc I doubt would have spent a whole lot of time with a footy in their hands growing up.

 

[BrownYouGun]

Going full sell out mode now by signing up for the American Mickey Mouse tournament

 

[Gethelred]

Going full sell out mode now by signing up for the American Mickey Mouse tournament

No news on how much money they offered him, either. It'd be good to know.

I'm interested, though. You'd begrudge a bloke earning a wage you'd bare your bum on Burke street to have a shot at yourself?

 

[icyflakes]

No news on how much money they offered him, either. It'd be good to know.

I'm interested, though. You'd begrudge a bloke earning a wage you'd bare your bum on Burke street to have a shot at yourself?

Also not sacrificing anything by going. It's in the absolute dead period of Aussie cricket, and obviously he won't play if we have tours scheduled like the Ashes. I'd consider it Ambassador money more than anything.

 

[Cmarsh]

Also not sacrificing anything by going. It's in the absolute dead period of Aussie cricket, and obviously he won't play if we have tours scheduled like the Ashes. I'd consider it Ambassador money more than anything.

Thing is though he hasn't played in the BBL for well over five years. So he is happy to support American cricket but not the local league.

 

[icyflakes]

Thing is though he hasn't played in the BBL for well over five years. So he is happy to support American cricket but not the local league.

I would prefer none of our test players bother with BBL given it clashes with our peak Test season

 

[cricketnut14]

I would prefer none of our test players bother with BBL given it clashes with our peak Test season

the next 2 summers there are windows for our test players to play BBL

• this summer there's a 2-3 week window before a test tour to sri lanka (unless they are rested).
• the following summer immediately after the ashes there's a 3 week window which comes immediately before the next 20/20 world cup.

seems crazy there's another 20/20 world cup in 18 months time.

 

[Soggy2112]

I would prefer none of our test players bother with BBL given it clashes with our peak Test season

Problem is whether we like it or not, franchise cricket will take over. At the moment the standard of the BBL is poor compared to other leagues, if we don’t address that we will fall behind.

We have to accept we don’t run the game anymore.

 

[Around the Wicket]

He doesn't have the Glenn McGrath aura about him who imo is the best I've ever watched but Cummins is one of the best of his era, pretty weak era though imo.

 

[Gough]

Going full sell out mode now by signing up for the American Mickey Mouse tournament

San Francisco too. So woke.

 

[icyflakes]

San Francisco too. So woke.

If there's anything I associate with America right now, it's being woke

 

[corbies]

Problem is whether we like it or not, franchise cricket will take over. At the moment the standard of the BBL is poor compared to other leagues, if we don’t address that we will fall behind.

We have to accept we don’t run the game anymore.

You can increase the standard all you like but if it goes full franchise mode there will be a full season IPL that all the best players play in then there will be the rest for players who can't get an IPL deal. The BBL becomes the equivalent of Gordon v Tea Tree Gully.

 

[the_interloper]

He's going to go down as probably our second best quick ever and one of the better captains we've had. The Test docos have shown he's definitely the one in charge of the team, he appears to be a great leader and elite planner behind the scenes.

 

[icyflakes]

He's going to go down as probably our second best quick ever and one of the better captains we've had. The Test docos have shown he's definitely the one in charge of the team, he appears to be a great leader and elite planner behind the scenes.

Second best pace bowler is probably a hard sell for most, but I agree that his leadership has shone through in The Test. Albeit in a style of leadership that is far more modern (collaborative, data driven, etc) than most of our previous captains, which will be a hard sell to many, particularly the older generations.

 

[Around the Wicket]

I don't think the opposition is good enough to sell Cummins as the 2nd best quick we have produced, outside of India who are strong pretty much every Test nation have a Top 6 averaging in the low 30's.

 

[Soggy2112]

Second best pace bowler is probably a hard sell for most, but I agree that his leadership has shone through in The Test. Albeit in a style of leadership that is far more modern (collaborative, data driven, etc) than most of our previous captains, which will be a hard sell to many, particularly the older generations.

Is it?

I think prior to Pat the consensus would be McGrath number one, Lillee number two.

Pat has a better average and strike rate than DK and is well on track to surpassing him for total wickets as well. I’m not old enough to remember Lillee, but in my time Pat is second only to Warne as a “big moments” kind of bowler as well.

Pat has also won a number of games with the bat, although I’m not sure if you take that into consideration here.

 

[Soggy2112]

I don't think the opposition is good enough to sell Cummins as the 2nd best quick we have produced, outside of India who are strong pretty much every Test nation have a Top 6 averaging in the low 30's.

I think you can make an argument for any era being weak. Ultimately you can only play what’s in front of you.