Analysis Danger on Tim Kelly + his 2020 contract

[JohnZ]

Not sure about Cockatoo

Where do you see Cockatoo's best position? I see him as one or two centre bounce midfielder (per Q) with some stints on the wing and starting from the square.

 

[dazbroncos]

Didn't you say we'd be lucky to scrape into finals this year?

That top up group is irrelevant as the best 22 don't require them (Henderson only becomes essential when Taylor retires, but even then you can make a strong backline without him).

Remember when we had 10 or more veterans winding down? That list was much closer to being cooked, with players performing below their peak years. Now we have a list where most players are in their prime, with the few winding down balanced out by our rising star nominees etc.

If Kelly leaves it will be a shame but at least with the compensation some quality picks can be obtained to further the regeneration of the list.

Cooked is an old team on the decline. It's one of your favourite buzz words but it does make you look foolish each time you divvy it out.

He was right... we scraped into first.

So I guess he got the scraping right.

GO Catters

 

[cats_09]

Where do you see Cockatoo's best position? I see him as one or two centre bounce midfielder (per Q) with some stints on the wing and starting from the square.

I want to see Cockatoo prove fitness before worrying about where we play him.

I'm glad we signed him for next year, but I'm going to wait to see how he goes over the preseason and how he gets through preseason games first.

I think he could be more dangerous through the forward line, similar to what we see each early season from Rohan - having both of them roaming the forward line alongside the tall timber of Hawkins & Ratugolea, with Miers and Ablett (?) as dangerous smalls

 

[foxdog50]

AFL trades 2019: Geelong to seek three top 30 draft picks for Tim Kelly in potential trade back to WA
AFL

• September 2, 2019 8:28pm
• TOM MORRIS@tommorris32
• Source: FOX SPORTS

If Tim Kelly is leaving, Geelong wants a huge draft haul in return. (Photo by Scott Barbour/Getty Images)Source: Getty Images
Geelong will seek draft picks rather than players if Tim Kelly requests a trade to West Coast at the end of the season.
While the Cats remain hopeful Kelly will sign a new deal, the club’s list management department has also developed contingencies should the midfielder seek a move back to Western Australia.
It’s broadly expected Kelly will ask to leave for family reasons, just as he did in 2018, though no formal decision has been communicated to Geelong.
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Finals Week 1

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   (60 points, 5th)
   
   Optus Stadium
   Sep 5 2019
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   (48 points, 8th)
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2. 
   
   
   
   (64 points, 1st)
   
   Melbourne Cricket Ground
   Sep 6 2019
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3. 
   
   
   
   (52 points, 6th)
   
   Giants Stadium
   Sep 7 2019
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   (48 points, 7th)
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4. 
   
   
   
   (64 points, 2nd)
   
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But if he does depart, Foxfooty.com.au understands the Cats have no interest in any West Coast players and would instead like to stockpile multiple high draft selections as compensation for Kelly.

Rival clubs have been told the Cats are committed to gaining at least three top 30 selections in November’s National Draft and have confidence in young midfielders such as Charlie Constable to step up if Kelly leaves.
Before priority picks and academy selections, Geelong has Picks 18 and 36 in the upcoming draft. Meanwhile, West Coast currently has 14, 22 and 32, but the first and last of those can change depending on how the Eagles go in the finals.
MORE AFL NEWS
TRADE WHISPERS: Swan swoop may force star’s move, AFL rule to restrict Cats

HE FIXED THE HAWKS: Now this AFL great could save Adelaide too
TRADE WHISPERS: Eagles target local Tigers star, star Crow could move
‘GOT A FAIR BIT OF FEEDBACK’: Rising Star voter defends not ranking Walsh first
Geelong is also aware of an added benefit in obtaining multiple high selections, as it is currently in line to be restricted by AFL rules around trading first round picks.
Having taken just one player in the first round between 2015 and 2018, the Cats cannot trade their 2019 first round pick unless they have another ready to be used.
Therefore if the Cats want to make a play for St Kilda’s Jack Steven or North Melbourne’s Shaun Higgins, they would need to complete a potential Kelly deal first. That would free them up to use a top 20 pick as part of a move for either player.
However there is an avenue to get the restriction waived by the AFL, which is what Hawthorn is reportedly set to consider.

Looking grim for Worsfold
0:45

The legislation is in place to protect clubs from recklessly trading away the rights to elite junior talent every year. In essence, it is designed to shield clubs against themselves.
Though the Dockers believe they are in with a chance for Kelly, the Eagles remain his more likely destination. Last year Kelly would not be drawn on a move to Fremantle, but there does not appear to be as much push back in 2019.
Fremantle certainly has the cap space, but West Coast is closer to sustained success. The Eagles loaded up on long-term deals to keep Andrew Gaff and Jeremy McGovern in 2018, while Elliot Yeo (2023) and Jack Darling (2025) are both locked in for several seasons to come.
“I’m always the optimist with these things and I’d love to have Tim in our team next year,” Chris Scott said on Nine over the weekend.

AFL trades 2019: Geelong to seek three top 30 draft picks for Tim Kelly in potential trade back to WA

Revealed: Cats’ price for Tim Kelly and what they’ll do with the haul

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[year of the cat]

Would still want one of those picks to be in the top 8 for Kelly.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I want to see Cockatoo prove fitness before worrying about where we play him.

I'm glad we signed him for next year, but I'm going to wait to see how he goes over the preseason and how he gets through preseason games first.

I think he could be more dangerous through the forward line, similar to what we see each early season from Rohan - having both of them roaming the forward line alongside the tall timber of Hawkins & Ratugolea, with Miers and Ablett (?) as dangerous smalls

Cocky has always been selected best 22 when fit, and often when not.

 

[Cursed Cat]

AFL trades 2019: Geelong to seek three top 30 draft picks for Tim Kelly in potential trade back to WA
AFL

• September 2, 2019 8:28pm
• TOM MORRIS@tommorris32
• Source: FOX SPORTS

If Tim Kelly is leaving, Geelong wants a huge draft haul in return. (Photo by Scott Barbour/Getty Images)Source: Getty Images
Geelong will seek draft picks rather than players if Tim Kelly requests a trade to West Coast at the end of the season.
While the Cats remain hopeful Kelly will sign a new deal, the club’s list management department has also developed contingencies should the midfielder seek a move back to Western Australia.
It’s broadly expected Kelly will ask to leave for family reasons, just as he did in 2018, though no formal decision has been communicated to Geelong.
Stream every match of the 2019 Toyota AFL Finals Series before the Grand Final Live & On-Demand on KAYO SPORTS. Get your 14 day free trial and start streaming instantly >
Finals Week 1

1. 
   
   
   
   (60 points, 5th)
   
   Optus Stadium
   Sep 5 2019
   8:10PM
   
   (48 points, 8th)
   $1.21BET NOW$4.25
2. 
   
   
   
   (64 points, 1st)
   
   Melbourne Cricket Ground
   Sep 6 2019
   7:50PM
   
   (60 points, 4th)
   $1.72BET NOW$2.10
3. 
   
   
   
   (52 points, 6th)
   
   Giants Stadium
   Sep 7 2019
   3:20PM
   
   (48 points, 7th)
   $2.05BET NOW$1.77
4. 
   
   
   
   (64 points, 2nd)
   
   Gabba
   Sep 7 2019
   7:25PM
   
   (64 points, 3rd)
   $2.20BET NOW$1.65

But if he does depart, Foxfooty.com.au understands the Cats have no interest in any West Coast players and would instead like to stockpile multiple high draft selections as compensation for Kelly.

Rival clubs have been told the Cats are committed to gaining at least three top 30 selections in November’s National Draft and have confidence in young midfielders such as Charlie Constable to step up if Kelly leaves.
Before priority picks and academy selections, Geelong has Picks 18 and 36 in the upcoming draft. Meanwhile, West Coast currently has 14, 22 and 32, but the first and last of those can change depending on how the Eagles go in the finals.
MORE AFL NEWS
TRADE WHISPERS: Swan swoop may force star’s move, AFL rule to restrict Cats

HE FIXED THE HAWKS: Now this AFL great could save Adelaide too
TRADE WHISPERS: Eagles target local Tigers star, star Crow could move
‘GOT A FAIR BIT OF FEEDBACK’: Rising Star voter defends not ranking Walsh first
Geelong is also aware of an added benefit in obtaining multiple high selections, as it is currently in line to be restricted by AFL rules around trading first round picks.
Having taken just one player in the first round between 2015 and 2018, the Cats cannot trade their 2019 first round pick unless they have another ready to be used.
Therefore if the Cats want to make a play for St Kilda’s Jack Steven or North Melbourne’s Shaun Higgins, they would need to complete a potential Kelly deal first. That would free them up to use a top 20 pick as part of a move for either player.
However there is an avenue to get the restriction waived by the AFL, which is what Hawthorn is reportedly set to consider.

Looking grim for Worsfold
0:45

The legislation is in place to protect clubs from recklessly trading away the rights to elite junior talent every year. In essence, it is designed to shield clubs against themselves.
Though the Dockers believe they are in with a chance for Kelly, the Eagles remain his more likely destination. Last year Kelly would not be drawn on a move to Fremantle, but there does not appear to be as much push back in 2019.
Fremantle certainly has the cap space, but West Coast is closer to sustained success. The Eagles loaded up on long-term deals to keep Andrew Gaff and Jeremy McGovern in 2018, while Elliot Yeo (2023) and Jack Darling (2025) are both locked in for several seasons to come.
“I’m always the optimist with these things and I’d love to have Tim in our team next year,” Chris Scott said on Nine over the weekend.

AFL trades 2019: Geelong to seek three top 30 draft picks for Tim Kelly in potential trade back to WA

Revealed: Cats’ price for Tim Kelly and what they’ll do with the haul

www.foxsports.com.au

I very much doubt it will happen, but if we were able to secure 3 selections in the top 30 to go with 18 & 36 then I'd be passing up on Higgins and Steven (despite liking both as footballers) and taking all 5 picks to the draft instead. I understand that it will be far from a 2001 superdraft, but it will be the first time in many a year that we'd be giving Wells and his team a really good crack at a draft in years, and I would back him in to nab us at least 2x 200+ gamers (as opposed to Higgins or Steven, who we'd be lucky to get 100 games from respectively) with that kind of currency.

 

[strauchnyy]

One of the picks surely has to be single digit

 

[foxdog50]

It could also be a future 1st Rounds next year.. doesn't necessarily has to be all for this year

 

[Turbocat]

I very much doubt it will happen, but if we were able to secure 3 selections in the top 30 to go with 18 & 36 then I'd be passing up on Higgins and Steven (despite liking both as footballers) and taking all 5 picks to the draft instead. I understand that it will be far from a 2001 superdraft, but it will be the first time in many a year that we'd be giving Wells and his team a really good crack at a draft in years, and I would back him in to nab us at least 2x 200+ gamers (as opposed to Higgins or Steven, who we'd be lucky to get 100 games from respectively) with that kind of currency.

Rival clubs have been told the Cats are committed to gaining at least three top 30 selections in November’s National Draft...

To me this means to my mind they will take the two late picks from West Coast and trade then for Steven and Higgins.. Overall a deflating possibility to me.

5 in the top 36 would be a strong attack at the draft ..and although its perceived as a shallow draft ..it would be a big chance to add a lot of early selection talent... and I just cant see us doing it. To me I feel that means they can get an extra R1 to use... and then have 3 picks from 18 to 36 to trade for players.

So 18 for Higgins , 21 for Steven and 36 for player X who we dont know yet.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Rival clubs have been told the Cats are committed to gaining at least three top 30 selections in November’s National Draft...

To me this means to my mind they will take the two late picks from West Coast and trade then for Steven and Higgins.. Overall a deflating possibility to me.

5 in the top 36 would be a strong attack at the draft ..and although its perceived as a shallow draft ..it would be a big chance to add a lot of early selection talent... and I just cant see us doing it. To me I feel that means they can get an extra R1 to use... and then have 3 picks from 18 to 36 to trade for players.

So 18 for Higgins , 21 for Steven and 36 for player X who we dont know yet.

Yeah I suspected this would be the case given all the talk of Steven coming to Geelong Turbo - but 5 swings inside the first 36 selections would definitely be my personal preference fwiw (= 0).
As stated I do like both Higgins and Steven and won't pout too much should the club opt to go down this path - but it surprises me a bit that the club has forsaken the kind of '99 + '01 draft blitzkrieg that yielded us 3 flags.

 

[year of the cat]

Rival clubs have been told the Cats are committed to gaining at least three top 30 selections in November’s National Draft...

To me this means to my mind they will take the two late picks from West Coast and trade then for Steven and Higgins.. Overall a deflating possibility to me.

5 in the top 36 would be a strong attack at the draft ..and although its perceived as a shallow draft ..it would be a big chance to add a lot of early selection talent... and I just cant see us doing it. To me I feel that means they can get an extra R1 to use... and then have 3 picks from 18 to 36 to trade for players.

So 18 for Higgins , 21 for Steven and 36 for player X who we dont know yet.

Bloody hope not!! I could cop taking one of them but not both and not for that sort of pick either.

 

[Turbocat]

Yeah I suspected this would be the case given all the talk of Steven coming to Geelong Turbo - but 5 swings inside the first 36 selections would definitely be my personal preference fwiw (= 0).
As stated I do like both Higgins and Steven and won't pout too much should the club opt to go down this path - but it surprises me a bit that the club has forsaken the kind of '99 + '01 draft blitzkrieg that yielded us 3 flags.

I dont think .. they feel its the way to go anymore ... as demonstrated by the constable talk. The market is magma hot and fluid ... and kids that are waiting their turn will in somecase get impatient..or get encouraged to get impatient.

So add 5 kids ..that will all struggle for games ..some that will get attention from other clubs ... etc... so you have to be careful about adding only what you want to use of or use soon. There will be exceptions of course.... but GWS has shown they have struggled as Vic teams bandy together and vulture them.

Its why Id not be surprised if they do trade Constable if its gets them a player who has features they rate now..ratehr than wait.. I just hope we get someone with these features who is closer to 20 than 30 ..

So how many players do we lose ..how many do we gain... and how many kids can we add that will get a serious look at chances within a year or two like Miers...

Higgins and Steven..is probably their way of countering the loss of Kelly.. but it hurts the age profile..

 

[Turbocat]

Bloody hope not!! I could cop taking one of them but not both and not for that sort of pick either.

Not advocating it ..just trying to understand their think if the report is in anyway on point..

 

[CatToTheFuture]

One of the picks surely has to be single digit

The single digit picks in this draft, with the exception of a couple, really aren't much better than those starting with a 1 our even a 2. Selling ourselves short if we take one of those over 2 slightly later picks.

I'd be keen to get their first, the Sydney 2nd, and their future 1st even if we package later picks with it. Including our two firsts that's 3 picks under 30 this year and two firsts on the trade table next year.

 

[Shadow89]

'3 picks under 30' sounds all well and good, until you realize that that's essentially what he was worth last year (apparently). 22, 25 future first / future second (whoever you believe).

14 and 22 are fine, but their future first needs to be in there too, with our second or third going back. Just because a journalist says it, doesn't mean that we'll adhere to it. Steven I could see us giving up 22 for (with the bulk of his salary paid) and something back. Higgins for 14 or 18, is a deadset joke. If our club is that stupid, then we don't deserve the draftees that those picks produce anyway.

 

[Cursed Cat]

I dont think .. they feel its the way to go anymore ... as demonstrated by the constable talk. The market is magma hot and fluid ... and kids that are waiting their turn will in somecase get impatient..or get encouraged to get impatient.

So add 5 kids ..that will all struggle for games ..some that will get attention from other clubs ... etc... so you have to be careful about adding only what you want to use of or use soon. There will be exceptions of course.... but GWS has shown they have struggled as Vic teams bandy together and vulture them.

Its why Id not be surprised if they do trade Constable if its gets them a player who has features they rate now..ratehr than wait.. I just hope we get someone with these features who is closer to 20 than 30 ..

So how many players do we lose ..how many do we gain... and how many kids can we add that will get a serious look at chances within a year or two like Miers...

Higgins and Steven..is probably their way of countering the loss of Kelly.. but it hurts the age profile..

The club has clearly sought a more fluid approach in recent years, but it is yet to be seen whether this approach will yield anything significant..

As to kids leaving the club for lack of opportunities, we've got a good track record of retaining players we want to retain - apart from arguably the best player of all time of course - and so it will be very interesting to see whether the Constable talk is legit or not.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Does it really matter that much... I cant see us getting too much more than what has been speculated... It gets down to if he wants Freo. They will have more than enough to satisfy

The Hope is with Tim Kelly young family and the manager has shown himself to be a real piece of work at dinner time. Contract money time Fremantle table on offer over 1 mil per season West Coast just cannot match overpay which doesn't seem that unreasonable when I see brad hill looking at high 8's to go to Saintsville.

Manager takes his 10% everybody wins.

Unsure how much bargaining power Geelong would have but could net them a pick in the top 10. In saying that he could technically walk to freo for zero.

Darcy or a Cerra player type plus a pick of some description not sure you get both if a player is involved.

It's what I hate about AFL contracts you should be able to trade players to any club at certain parts of the season regardless of location.

If any team wants to trade for player ( x ) for the contracted length the club can take the best deal possible before the halfway mark of the season. Let's say around mid-season draft.

Geelong holding kelly has worked out so it's probably not applicable in this scenario anyway. But if the want to take on American style format do it properly and change contracts to reflect how free agency, contracted players should work inside this system.

 

[year of the cat]

The single digit picks in this draft, with the exception of a couple, really aren't much better than those starting with a 1 our even a 2. Selling ourselves short if we take one of those over 2 slightly later picks.

I'd be keen to get their first, the Sydney 2nd, and their future 1st even if we package later picks with it. Including our two firsts that's 3 picks under 30 this year and two firsts on the trade table next year.

Give me a single digit pick instead of one starting with 2 any day. It might be evenish but there is still better quality in those first dozen picks

 

[Ray Donovan]

'3 picks under 30' sounds all well and good, until you realize that that's essentially what he was worth last year (apparently). 22, 25 future first / future second (whoever you believe).

14 and 22 are fine, but their future first needs to be in there too, with our second or third going back. Just because a journalist says it, doesn't mean that we'll adhere to it. Steven I could see us giving up 22 for (with the bulk of his salary paid) and something back. Higgins for 14 or 18, is a deadset joke. If our club is that stupid, then we don't deserve the draftees that those picks produce anyway.

Higgins & Stevens neither is worth a first round selection at that age profile.

The one thing I also have no idea about is how much Geelong can really ask for in the case of negotiations on worth with West Coast?

It's still a bit hazy to me how it all shakes out if negotiations go nowhere again

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Not advocating it ..just trying to understand their think if the report is in anyway on point..

Nah Higgins and Steven are not worth top40 picks at all.

 

[Shadow89]

Higgins & Stevens neither is worth a first round selection at that age profile.

The one thing I also have no idea about is how much Geelong can really ask for in the case of negotiations on worth with West Coast?

It's still a bit hazy to me how it all shakes out if negotiations go nowhere again

'He'll go to the draft and we'll get nothing', according to most West Coast supporters

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Give me a single digit pick instead of one starting with 2 any day. It might be evenish but there is still better quality in those first dozen picks

Of course you'd take a single digit pick but would you take pick 7 or picks 14 and 22?

Is there a Joel Selwood at 7 this year? If not there might might be a Patrick Cripps and Brandon Parfitt

 

[Turbocat]

The club has clearly sought a more fluid approach in recent years, but it is yet to be seen whether this approach will yield anything significant..

As to kids leaving the club for lack of opportunities, we've got a good track record of retaining players we want to retain - apart from arguably the best player of all time of course - and so it will be very interesting to see whether the Constable talk is legit or not.

Really we traditionally do have a good record..but then we really have not gone hard at the draft with premium picks for a while and asked them to wait for games ... Its been a long time since we have not recruited a player for an immediate PnP in an offseason. To be fair even back in the good old days.. we had years like 200 when we tried to balance the kids with a senior player

 

[Turbocat]

Nah Higgins and Steven are not worth top40 picks at all.

I hope you have you hands on the picks... lets see what happens .