Player Watch Daniel Wells, (New role at the Club #3261)

[didaksrightfoot]

From a salary cap perspective – if Pies keep him on the list next year then the 2019 payments go into next years cap. If they delist him at the end of this year then all payments would go into 2018 cap. All payments go into the last year the player is on list. And these are actual payments, not the contract amount if a lesser "retirement payout" is negotiated

That is why there was speculation Tippett would still be on Swans list in 2019 so they could spread payments into that year.

Restricted free agents slightly different in that even if they accepted a lesser retirement payout, the full contracted amount has to go into the cap. This is to prevent the potential of an RFA nominating a high contract amount which is not matched by his club, getting into a new club and then effectively forgiving a later year payment amount by accepting a lesser retirement payout. Same for a player who goes to a club via draft and has nominated payment terms.

Is that true?
I thought with the Buddy contract the AFL made a statement that it would come off the cap for the full 9 years? (although that could've just been hyperbole to counteract the AFL's disappointment that he chose Sydney over GWS).

The problem with all of this is that the AFL just seems to be so vague about all these details - both in terms of transparency of contracts, and transperancy of the salary cap and the rules surrounding it (including FA compensation). It just seems like the AFL keep changing the rules as they go.

Personally - I highly doubt Well's 3rd year was fully garaunteed for 600k. Whatever complaints we have about our front office, that would just be financially negligent. My guess has always been that the 3rd was either a team option (ideal, but less likely than the other options), at a discount with conditions (say 3-400k base, up to 600 based on games played) or the contract was heavily front-loaded.
I would suggest the same thing with Mayne's contract.
Both contracts just seemed so fishy that it would not surprise me if, in reality, they were both inflated (short term) to get us to the 95% floor for 2017/18 when our team is still full of young players. (remembering that we would've had some substantial contracts coming off the books at the time).

But we will never really know. At least not in a world without transperancy. (For the record - I am not specifically pro- or against- the AFL releasing contract details. There are plenty of good arguments on both sides, and it would need to be a very robust discussion between the AFLPA and the AFL before it is considered. But I do think it is something that is great for fans and the media, and if the players want increasing powers in free agency, then this could be something the AFL wants to negotiate).
---

As for the Well's situation.
If our salary cap position for 2019 is gonna be as tight as is being rumoured (if we get Lynch, or similar), then you absolutely look at whatever options are available to get Well's contract completely off the books by this summer - whether thats through an injury clause, retirement or just renegotiating.

I think Ned Guy, as a former agent, will be pragmatic enough about the financials to be taking that approach.

 

[sideswipe]

Is that true?
I thought with the Buddy contract the AFL made a statement that it would come off the cap for the full 9 years? (although that could've just been hyperbole to counteract the AFL's disappointment that he chose Sydney over GWS).

The problem with all of this is that the AFL just seems to be so vague about all these details - both in terms of transparency of contracts, and transperancy of the salary cap and the rules surrounding it (including FA compensation). It just seems like the AFL keep changing the rules as they go.

Refer to the last paragraph of my previous post. Franklin went to Sydney as a restricted free agent thus regardless of whether he sees out his contract, the complete contracted amount will run through the salary cap over the contract term. Different for wells who wasn't restricted. When you think about it, the system makes sense...

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Post surgery I would advise a frank and open discussion with Daniel and his manager around the prospect of him retiring post 2018.

Advise them that he’s no longer in the clubs plans for 2019 because of his recent injury profile and the ever increasing likelihood that he will never return to the player he once was. Make it clear we aren’t forcing his hand on retirement, we won’t be delisting him and will do everything in our power to find a role commensurate with his skills and knowledge to make sure he isn’t left significantly out of pocket. It’s what I consider the professional approach to the decision.

There are ways you can sweeten the deal, but we’re all adults so it’s a practical solution to a situation all and sundry (aside from you) are acknowledging hasn’t worked. That’s all from me because I don’t understand your reasons for continuing to press the issue, my opinion has been clarified numerous times now and frankly I’m over it!

100%

I would even remove the bolded bit.
That is, in reality, what the club should be doing (depending on our cap position and our expectations of his recovery - this is all for null if he can return this year). Now you have to be tactful in how you approach it - but you have to frankly tell him, and his management, where our list is at, where the salary cap is at, and where we think he's at, both in terms of age and body, and whether see any place for him, on-field, going forward. And I agree, you sweeten that with an off-field role to transition him into. (If his heads in the right place, I think a guy like Wells could be very valuable around the club).

I am sure a very similar conversation happened with Luke Ball. He went from, one week, saying he wanted to play on, to then suddenly deciding to retire the week later. That does not happen in the vacuum. I think he made the right call - he could've had a handful more games in him if he stayed another year, but it really looked like it would become one of those "one year too many" situations.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Refer to the last paragraph of my previous post. Franklin went to Sydney as a restricted free agent thus regardless of whether he sees out his contract, the complete contracted amount will run through the salary cap over the contract term. Different for wells who wasn't restricted. When you think about it, the system makes sense...

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[sideswipe]

FWIW you’re wrong about the year that the salary cap impact hits. The final year of his contract would be held under 2019 because the list lodgement takes place post the October 31 contract roll over date.

Edit: here’s the link for the list lodgement deadline. http://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-31/afl-list-lodgement-october-31-deadline

That strategy may well be the way to go, but i would suggest it occurs a long way into his rehab period. I hear these injuries are pretty flukey in terms of their recovery time. Where there is life there is hope, so why not give him a chance to come back? His 2019 cost is effectively sunk unless he settles for a lesser retirement amount. And that wouldn't be a material reduction.

And no, not wrong, maybe not clear enough for you. When talking about payment years and caps, I think it is a given one is talking about AFL years, not calendar years. If Pies delist and payout prior to end of the AFL year (this is the AFL's financial year), then the payment goes to the 2018 cap.

 

[Pie eyed]

I only highlighted that part because Frankie23 asked a question...….nothing to do with Bucks publicly writing off anyone.

I was not having a dig at you.
Just pointing out that no what Bucks may think he was never going to say anything different.

 

[CFC2010]

I was not having a dig at you.
Just pointing out that no what Bucks may think he was never going to say anything different.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

He has 2 more years on his contract doesn't he?

1 after this one.

So year and a half.

 

[sr36]

You're correct 2016 was Swans last year contracted......I got that one wrong.
I thought it was our Club that paid out that money but it seems it is the AFLPA.

I tried to find the AFL rules regarding this but have had no luck.

I take back what I initially posted "no way" Wells retires now.

Will you ever learn. You don't say it.

 

[CFC2010]

Will you ever learn. You don't say it.

That’s why I am the Clayton’s Fonzie

 

[nahnah]

He looked fine in the last quarter, just watched the replay. Weird. Painkillers are powerful drugs obviously.

 

[BPikkers]

That strategy may well be the way to go, but i would suggest it occurs a long way into his rehab period. I hear these injuries are pretty flukey in terms of their recovery time. Where there is life there is hope, so why not give him a chance to come back? His 2019 cost is effectively sunk unless he settles for a lesser retirement amount. And that wouldn't be a material reduction.

And no, not wrong, maybe not clear enough for you. When talking about payment years and caps, I think it is a given one is talking about AFL years, not calendar years. If Pies delist and payout prior to end of the AFL year (this is the AFL's financial year), then the payment goes to the 2018 cap.

I’d be surprised if we get much out of Wells in the 3rd year. He isn’t getting any younger and injuries continue to be a major problem.

I would have thought the expectations of recruiters would have been to get the most out of him in the first 2 years and the third was there to secure him.

He’ll be 34 next year and has played about 43 games in the past 5 years. Injuries have really robbed the game of such a silky player.

 

[northpie]

Sie

Wells = silky midfielder with elite skills and leg speed to burn
Wills/Sier = In and under bulls with questionable pace and skills

sier ran 2.9 20 m sprint he is not slow.

 

[Mukesh]

Sie

sier ran 2.9 20 m sprint he is not slow.

And the old Daniel certainly isn't as sprightly as he once was...

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Makes no sense to rest him after two games. Something smells fishy.

"And I'm not talking about the contents of Baldrick's apple crumble."

 

[Mr Pie]

Sorry if this has been asked before but i thought Wells contract was 2 years with the option of a third if certain criteria was met?

If this is the case and the criteria has not been met, how would this affect our cap for next year?

Surely we delist and move on?

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Sorry if this has been asked before but i thought Wells contract was 2 years with the option of a third if certain criteria was met?

If this is the case and the criteria has not been met, how would this affect our cap for next year?

Surely we delist and move on?

It was reported as a 3-year deal but no one knows for certain because they never release these kind of details.

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

It's very hard to find any concrete detail but articles such as this one imply pretty clearly that there are triggers involved

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...free-agency-compensation-20180221-p4z16j.html

 

[Adz]

Is he really out for the season?

 

[Anzacday]

Apparently he's playing on next year according to Pickering on SEN - thanks Scodog10 which to me indicates the injury is not career threatening.
I mentioned in another thread I'd ask about contract triggers and salary cap impact etc.
Its seems Wellsy's contract didn't have any triggers, (as opposed to being performance based) so he's on our books for next year.
Please come back from injury and the off-season in prime condition Mr Wells.

 

[TradeDraft]

Apparently he's playing on next year according to Pickering on SEN - thanks Scodog10 which to me indicates the injury is not career threatening.
I mentioned in another thread I'd ask about contract triggers and salary cap impact etc.
Its seems Wellsy's contract didn't have any triggers, (as opposed to being performance based) so he's on our books for next year.
Please come back from injury and the off-season in prime condition Mr Wells.

So it was bad Deal as we 1st Thought. Gubby had the Biggest Stuff Up in Recent Club History

 

[regpies]

Everyone knows what’s going to happen.

He’s going to come back start of pre season fat, get injured, be on a modified program. Get injured again in Feb, play 2 games in May, get injured again.

 

[whiskeytown]

Everyone knows what’s going to happen.

He’s going to come back start of pre season fat, get injured, be on a modified program. Get injured again in Feb, play 2 games in May, get injured again.

Someone unlucky will get delisted and others left to leave so there is room for Wells and Mayne on the list in 2019.

If only we could combine Wells ability... with Maynes professionalism, durability and doggedness.

 

[Bard]

Someone unlucky will get delisted and others left to leave so there is room for Wells and Mayne on the list in 2019.

If only we could combine Wells ability... with Maynes professionalism, durability and doggedness.

Pendlebury?

 

[Mongo Ming]

They would have negotiated with Mayne and Wells’ people and front loaded the ass out of their contracts when the Gubby alert button was pressed in this last preseason.

Loading up cash for the monster Lynch trade.

Both trades are essentially a write off, but might as well “keep both for one more year if they’re still on the books” would be the club’s viewpoint methinks.

#assumption