David Hale

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Since when has Hutchy ever been a reliable source? :eek:

For that proposed deal to work North would have to pay the majority of his contract, even then North are miles in front.
 
Demonheart said:
Since when has Hutchy ever been a reliable source? :eek:

For that proposed deal to work North would have to pay the majority of his contract, even then North are miles in front.
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Dees in salary cap issues already?
 

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12-17 is not really an issue i doubt player 17 is that much worse then 12 especially when melbourne apparently will be going for a random one either way. I dont like the money issue.
 
Deefolt said:
12-17 is not really an issue i doubt player 17 is that much worse then 12 especially when melbourne apparently will be going for a random one either way. I dont like the money issue.
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That's pretty much it in a nutshell. The crop is so even across the 5-20+ range, that it becomes a raffle, especially with Gold Coast not necessarily selecting on a "best available basis."

The positive for North is that we'd be getting Pick 31, (which is a pick that will get us a decent player, especially if our recruiting staff draft the way they have been recently) plus we'll get to choose the a potential gun, that better suits our needs.

No major issue over paying Hale's contract. It's only for one more year, and we're not going to be in major salary cap constraint position anyway.

That said, if we could somehow get the Coasts 2nd rounder, plus an upgrade of our first rounder, i'd be more than happy.
 
Brent Prismall#9 said:
Apparently the Hawks interest in Hale is starting to fire up.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...hawthorn-circles/story-e6frf9jf-1225934580219



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...hawthorn-circles/story-e6frf9jf-1225934580219
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I honestly do not see why Hawks would bother when they have Roughy, Franklin and a shyte load of rucks on their list.

If they thinned out the ruckmen and had pegged Hale to play predominately as a ruckman with the ability to go forward to pinch hit for short periods and allow the Hawks to play with 3 runners on the bench then that would make some sense.

But, it doesn't sound like they have gone hard, nor have they shed any of the ruck options. Sounds like they are just pissing off Melbourne to raise the price atm.
 
Tas said:
I honestly do not see why Hawks would bother

Sounds like they are just pissing off Melbourne to raise the price atm.
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And they'd do that why?

(Personally I'm not averse to the notion of randomly pissing off Melbourne, but why are you suggesting it?)
 
Kimbo said:
And they'd do that why?

(Personally I'm not averse to the notion of randomly pissing off Melbourne, but why are you suggesting it?)
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Because I don't see why a club with 2 good KPFs and 5 ruckmen would be sniffing around for another ruckman who is not going to come dirt cheap knowing GC, Melbourne amongst other are interested in him.

Why would they do it intentionally to piss another club off? I don't know, perhaps they are in competition for the services of some other player perhaps? Perhaps they stuffed them around last year trade discussions? Who knows, I just don't see why Hawks would be keen unless they plan to dump several ruckman after trade week.
 

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well we have 6 ruckman actually (Renouf Skipper Taylor Bailey Lowden Grimley)

But all are very young or are not big enough to compete with the big guys.

How was Hale before MacIntosh took over? Is he a really pathetic ruckman???? or did they move him forward cos he can take a mark and kick straight?
 
whiteTiga2k said:
well we have 6 ruckman actually (Renouf Skipper Taylor Bailey Lowden Grimley)

But all are very young or are not big enough to compete with the big guys.

How was Hale before MacIntosh took over? Is he a really pathetic ruckman???? or did they move him forward cos he can take a mark and kick straight?
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To be honest on a pure "ruckman-taps to midfielder" basis, Hale is better than McIntosh IMO, and is a very solid ruckman. The only reason HMAC gets a game is that he's a smart footballer around the ground and would win plenty more possessions in our midfield. Add to that, he uses it well.

Hale on the other hand was seen by Laidley as a potential CHF. Which he's not. He's a ruckman, and a good ruckman at that. However, he's behind Goldstein on a ruck basis, and Hamish offers us more around the ground.

He's more than capable of being a first or second ruck, and the only reason we'd be getting rid of him, is that with Goldstein developing, along with Hamish and Petrie who can ruck, and Majak developing in the VFL, there's little point in keeping him on the list, when he has currency to help us fix other more glaring deficiencies.
In my eyes, if Hale was to ruck full time, he'd be akin to a B.Lade type ruckman (obviously a poorer version of Lade), as in, a ruckman that can win the hitouts, but then push forward. Which is why it's strange that he'd be considered at the Hawks. Hale pushing forward is just going to clog a forward line with 2 big talls in already.
 
DeputyViceCaptain said:
If this report is true it could only mean they were prepared to float their first round pick as part of a deal. If they offer a straight swap I will be doing cartwheels.
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I don't think they'll offer up their first pick as I recall reading a article not too long ago where Hawks officials said they would not be trading their first round pick.
 
whiteTiga2k said:
well we have 6 ruckman actually (Renouf Skipper Taylor Bailey Lowden Grimley)

But all are very young or are not big enough to compete with the big guys.

How was Hale before MacIntosh took over? Is he a really pathetic ruckman???? or did they move him forward cos he can take a mark and kick straight?
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Hale was moved primarily because he was the better forward option and we had a dire problem up forward with the departure of Rocca and Nathan Thompson going down with the knee reco. McIntosh showed promise in the ruck but at the time hadn't showed anything up forward.

I think the problem for Hale was when he did the bulk of his rucking for us he was around the 85kg mark and he had a lot of problems holding his position. He is 102kg now and that isn't as big an issue.

In terms of ruck technique I would rate our current rucks:
Goldstein 8/10
Hale 7/10
McIntosh 6/10

The thing with McIntosh is when he doesn't get his hand to the ball first (which is what counts for a stat) he will often deny the opposition ruckman the ability to hit out to advantage, which means when he loses the ball often spills to a 50/50. McIntosh also has the tendency to rack up midfielder-like disposals which makes his ruckwork not as critical. McIntosh's hit outs to advantage would be on the poor side for a ruckman of his ability.

Hale, when he last played as a main ruck didn't have the tank, didn't really go hard either has to be said but he was 23, not often the prime of a ruckman.

But, like our other ruckman, he improved his technique, our ruck work in the forward 50 has often resulted in goals because he would often do the ruck work up forward pre-Goldstein and imo he was a superior tap ruckman than McIntosh.

He just lacks aggression, don't know why. If a club can put the angry pills into him I think he will take his game to the next level, much like Leigh Brown getting a bit of mongrel turned him from semi-useless to valuable. But, Hale has 1000x the upside than Leigh Brown, especially in the ruck. The one game he actually took the game on he booted 8 goals against Geelong up forward and made Harley, Scarlett, Taylor and Mackie look very ordinary, often multiple of them at once.

He just needs the spark, he has become too comfortable at North.
 
irukandji said:
Depends how Prendergast rates the draft. Maybe he can throw a blanket over 10-20 and reckons he can get at 17 what he could at 12.

If our FD is prepared to do that deal they obviously genuinely rate Hale as a fwd/ruck and "the big key forward we're after" becomes less necessary.

I reckon North should take that too - unless they also don't think 12 is much of an upgrade on 17.
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i somehow doubt that if you're recruiter feels that way we wouldnt be thinking the same thing, hence the trade would not occur.
 
Flawed Genius said:
Bit hard to dick up consecutive #1 picks.

Also hard to lose when you trade with Carlton.
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Unfair - forget the number 1's, in recent years we've plucked Frawley at 12, Grimes, Morton, Gysberts looks excellent for a pick 11. Liam Jurrah in the rookie draft was a great gamble at the time. Bennell and Wonnaemerri were later picks plus I reckon there are a couple more kids that will be exposed as pretty good recruits this year (Blease, Strauss, Tapscott). I dont think too many Dees supporters will be complaining about our recruiting of recent years.

irukandji said:
Depends how Prendergast rates the draft. Maybe he can throw a blanket over 10-20 and reckons he can get at 17 what he could at 12.

If our FD is prepared to do that deal they obviously genuinely rate Hale as a fwd/ruck and "the big key forward we're after" becomes less necessary.

I reckon North should take that too - unless they also don't think 12 is much of an upgrade on 17.
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Apparantly most recruiters are suggesting its a pretty even spread up to about pick 30 this year.

I still dont like the Hale idea for Melbourne. Id rather keep both our first 2 picks and punt on some kids tbh.

Kimbo said:
Personally I'm not averse to the notion of randomly pissing off Melbourne
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Norf.. :p
 
NiceCunnington said:
It's interesting. At first it looks like a no brainer for us but the draft is considered very even in that 10-20 range. I can see why we have 'baulked' at it.
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That means that you dont trust your recruiters.

Be crazy to knock back melbourne's offer.
 
yaco55 said:
That means that you dont trust your recruiters.

Be crazy to knock back melbourne's offer.
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Yeah, we don't trust the recruiters that have picked up 3/4 of our senior team in the last 4 drafts:

Lach Hansen (3)
Ben Cunnington (5)
Jack Ziebell (9)
Ryan Bastinac (21)
Sam Wright (27)
Levi Greenwood (32)
Todd Goldstein (37)
Scott Thompson (38)
Liam Anthony (43)
Lindsay Thomas (53)
Ben Warren (69)
Aaron Edwards (83)
Leigh Adams (Rookie)
Nathan Grima (Rookie)
Matt Campbell (Rookie)
Cruize Garlett (Rookie)


Then theres another 5 players with good potential who broke into the side for their first time in 2010:

Robbie Tarrant (15)
Jamie MacMillan (37)
Nathan O'Keefe (59)
Marcus White (Rookie)
Ben Speight (Rookie)


Not to mention Aaron Black (25), one of the top rated KPP's in the 2009 Draft who spent most of season 2010 in cotton wool.....and of course Majak.


I think North supporters can rest easy with that sort of recruiting.
 
whiteTiga2k said:
well we have 6 ruckman actually (Renouf Skipper Taylor Bailey Lowden Grimley)

But all are very young or are not big enough to compete with the big guys.

How was Hale before MacIntosh took over? Is he a really pathetic ruckman???? or did they move him forward cos he can take a mark and kick straight?
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Skipper averaged more hit outs per game in 2010 than Hale has in any year over his career. That pretty much sums up how good a ruckman he is.
 
Furn said:
Skipper averaged more hit outs per game in 2010 than Hale has in any year over his career. That pretty much sums up how good a ruckman he is.
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Of course he would have given Hale's long stints up forward.

Early in his career he played as a 2nd ruckman to Mark Porter and Petrie due to being so skinny. He then had a horrific internal injury in a game early in 2004 which set him back a fair way, he missed most of the season that year but before that he had started to take some big marks and gather a few possessions around the ground.

In 2008 he had a break out season at full forward/part time ruck kicking 40 odd goals and has played mostly forward ever since due to Petrie's absence. He struggled to make the side this year because Goldstein and McIntosh are the 1 and 2 rucks and Hansen emerged as a key forward.

If Hale built up his endurance as a ruckman and lost a bit of muscle that he has put on to become a forward I have no doubt he in front of Skipper as a ruck at Hawthorn. Add to that he averages a goal per game and he is a mile in front.
 
Tas said:
Because I don't see why a club with 2 good KPFs and 5 ruckmen would be sniffing around for another ruckman who is not going to come dirt cheap knowing GC, Melbourne amongst other are interested in him.
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Probably because their 5 ruckmen are putrid as a group??

I mean FFS, Skipper? Taylor? Renouf is the best and he is pretty average.
 
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