Analysis Derek Hine

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Like the narrative of no Pies in the team, but unfortunately Darcy was in the team. No issue with people being critical of the club, but there's a fine line between being constructive and looking for reason to be negative...

 
CFC2010 said:
Even I could have picked Moore jmac.......stop being silly.

I am talking about keeping Gault forever on our list........I am talking about getting rid of Cloke without a contingency........I am talking about getting rid of Shaw without a ready made player in his important modern day position..........do I need to keep going on?

Out team is unbalanced because of our list manger D.Hine..........next........
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I reckon you are assuming that our list manager had more power over those decisions than reality. I've always assumed that decisions on already listed players come down to the coaching staff. I'm pretty confident that if the coaching staff didn't rate Gault's potential, they would have gotten rid of him quicker. I reckon if the coaching staff didn't want to get rid of Cloke and Shaw they wouldn't have gone.

I reckon our unbalanced list comes down to the coaching staff overrating the potential of Frost, Gault, and Nathan Brown, believing that Witts was going to work with Grundy and not foreseeing the rapid decline of Cloke.
 

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Magpie Monopoly said:
Like the narrative of no Pies in the team, but unfortunately Darcy was in the team. No issue with people being critical of the club, but there's a fine line between being constructive and looking for reason to be negative...

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That's not the final team though.
 
Magpie Monopoly said:
Like the narrative of no Pies in the team, but unfortunately Darcy was in the team. No issue with people being critical of the club, but there's a fine line between being constructive and looking for reason to be negative...

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That's only the squad. Darcy didn't make the team.

FWIW given the selection criteria is a public vote I'm not overly concerned he missed out.
 
Charlie Curnow kicked less goals and took less contested marks than Darcy Moore but was the CHF in the U22 team. That is an indictment on the selectors of the U22 team, not our recruiting team. No Maynard or Petracca but Siciliy, Rioli, Wines make the side. Please.

EDIT _ Just realised it was voted for by the public. My bad. Who cares?
 
De Goey had his start to the season cooked, yet compared to Rioli as a forward, averages more goals a game, nearly doubles him for disposals, nearly doubles him for marks, smashes him in nearly every stat category, yet Rioli gets in.

I wont even bother comparing Rioli's stats to Petracca's. How Maynard didn't get in is beyond me.

Your average AFL fan is dumd AF...
 
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Good_Old said:
Why after the draft? Why not before? Why would you shoot a bloke, bang, and then drive him to the bloody hospital?
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Because there's no cash here, here there's no cash.
Robbo?
No cash.

To answer your question.
Kind of defeats the purpose, shoot a bloke then drive him to the hospital.

Put it away, Mason Mark
 
Magpie Monopoly said:
De Goey had his start to the season cooked, yet compared to Rioli as a forward, averages more goals a game, nearly doubles him for disposals, nearly doubles him for marks, smashes him in nearly every stat category, yet Rioli gets in.

I wont even bother comparing Rioli's stats to Petracca's. How Maynard didn't get in is beyond me.

You're average AFL fan is dumd AF...
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Look who the selectors are. The oldest rule in football.
If in doubt the Collingwood player gets left out.
 

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Although i do feel Hine needs to go (for similar reasons i think Buckley should have gone), i think people are being overly critical of his drafting. To me, what makes a quality drafter is not what they do with their high picks, but what they do with their lower ones. Your Hawthorns and Sydney's of the world have been dominant for this reason.

Ignoring picks outside the top 20, our drafting has looked like this the past 4 years:

2016: McLarty (30), Brown (35), Kirby (50), Daicos (57). All good picks for me, huge tick for Kirby.
2015: Sier (32), Phillips (58), Wills (63), Crocker (65). Sier bad, Wills and Crocker good, Phillips looking to be nearly the steal of the draft...
2014: Maynard (30), Goodyear (48). Maynard could be the next Luke Hodge, Goodyear not so much.
2013: Langdon (65), Marsh (77). Both ticks for me, particularly Langdon.

Give credit where credit is due. Alot of players from those nothing picks turned into some quality players in our side. I dont think Hine is the issue at Collingwood.
 
Magpie Monopoly said:
Although i do feel Hine needs to go (for similar reasons i think Buckley should have gone), i think people are being overly critical of his drafting. To me, what makes a quality drafter is not what they do with their high picks, but what they do with their lower ones. Your Hawthorns and Sydney's of the world have been dominant for this reason.

Ignoring picks outside the top 20, our drafting has looked like this the past 4 years:

2016: McLarty (30), Brown (35), Kirby (50), Daicos (57). All good picks for me, huge tick for Kirby.
2015: Sier (32), Phillips (58), Wills (63), Crocker (65). Sier bad, Wills and Crocker good, Phillips looking to be nearly the steal of the draft...
2014: Maynard (30), Goodyear (48). Maynard could be the next Luke Hodge, Goodyear not so much.
2013: Langdon (65), Marsh (77). Both ticks for me, particularly Langdon.

Give credit where credit is due. Alot of players from those nothing picks turned into some quality players in our side. I dont think Hine is the issue at Collingwood.
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Good post. Hard to deny those facts.

Also if we didn't have Hine we may not have Grundy or De Goey. I'm happy. Especially with Grundy.


On a separate note, what's going on with Jonathon Marsh? Anyone heard anything about him recently? Showed good signs before he left and haven't heard anything since. Would love to rookie him if the chance ever came about.
 
Magpie Monopoly said:
Although i do feel Hine needs to go (for similar reasons i think Buckley should have gone), i think people are being overly critical of his drafting. To me, what makes a quality drafter is not what they do with their high picks, but what they do with their lower ones. Your Hawthorns and Sydney's of the world have been dominant for this reason.

Ignoring picks outside the top 20, our drafting has looked like this the past 4 years:

2016: McLarty (30), Brown (35), Kirby (50), Daicos (57). All good picks for me, huge tick for Kirby.
2015: Sier (32), Phillips (58), Wills (63), Crocker (65). Sier bad, Wills and Crocker good, Phillips looking to be nearly the steal of the draft...
2014: Maynard (30), Goodyear (48). Maynard could be the next Luke Hodge, Goodyear not so much.
2013: Langdon (65), Marsh (77). Both ticks for me, particularly Langdon.

Give credit where credit is due. Alot of players from those nothing picks turned into some quality players in our side. I dont think Hine is the issue at Collingwood.
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How many of those are in the under 22 team? We don't have one player.
 
Matty wouldn't tweet anything that is just rumour unless he has mail from a good source.

Either way, it's not less credible than what any of the journalists say and write. In fact its probably more cridible because he doesn't have a vandeta against the club like all the others.

Btw, I am looking forward to reading the word "source" in every post on here in the next two months. Everyone will have one and it will be very reliable too.
 
Scodog10 said:
How exactly does that explain our investment of 1 pick inside the top 50 of drafts on KPP's whilst he was the list manager?
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A couple things ...

(1) Hine doesn't write the shopping list.

It's somebody else who say to him "Gunna bake some muffins to enter into the Melbourne show (it's that time of year?), here's $20, go buy the best flour money can buy and spend whatever is left on blueberries"

(2) Hine doesn't scour the shelves of Melbourne's epicurean establishments by himself (or even with his team of elves. He's got a whole committee that includes the club President and club CEO to help him decide whether to go 'type 0' or 'type 00' flour.

Now the way that committee works might be all above board. And Hine is the figurehead of the recruting department so he's the man responsible for it all but ....

... if we had been seeing Ed and Perty with Buckley in the box on gameday, would there have been the same questions of Buckley's ability to coach?

Unfortunately he and others put too much stock in the likes of White, Cox, Richmond, Wyatt and Gault as KPF's and kept investing in smaller players. It lead to an unhealthy imbalance on the list.
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Continuing with the shopping analogy. If somebody gave you $20 to go out and buy 100g of decent caviar, they've got no right to be cranky if you don't come back with Beluga.

Cox, Richmond and Wyatt didn't even cost us a place on the list nor a red cent within the salary cap (obviously Cox does start to now that he's established himself as a player)

I forget Gault's draft position, but it wasn't high.

White can't have cost us much. Ditto Q. Lynch.

Ceglar ended up doing alright - as a ruckman for another club.

Fortunately that can be fixed easily by an astute list manager that just trades one of our abundance of mids for a tall or selection to find a tall on top of pick 6 going towards another,
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Doesn't matter how astute the list manager is, if the chef reckons quality of flour is more important than quality of blueberries then there's not much he can do.

but the damage was done well before Mayne was brought in over Hine's head by Gubby.
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Indeed

I'd just like to echo the thoughts of some others and that if rumour is fact we haven't lost anything in terms of list management only talent ID. I'm also going to choose to ignore the garbage about Ed being on the list management committee. Not even he's that stupidly arrogant!!
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It was mentioned at a member's forum a few years back that Ed (and Pert) were on the list management committee.
 
76woodenspooners said:
A couple things ...

(1) Hine doesn't write the shopping list.

It's somebody else who say to him "Gunna bake some muffins to enter into the Melbourne show (it's that time of year?), here's $20, go buy the best flour money can buy and spend whatever is left on blueberries"

(2) Hine doesn't scour the shelves of Melbourne's epicurean establishments by himself (or even with his team of elves. He's got a whole committee that includes the club President and club CEO to help him decide whether to go 'type 0' or 'type 00' flour.

Now the way that committee works might be all above board. And Hine is the figurehead of the recruting department so he's the man responsible for it all but ....

... if we had been seeing Ed and Perty with Buckley in the box on gameday, would there have been the same questions of Buckley's ability to coach?

Continuing with the shopping analogy. If somebody gave you $20 to go out and buy 100g of decent caviar, they've got no right to be cranky if you don't come back with Beluga.

Cox, Richmond and Wyatt didn't even cost us a place on the list nor a red cent within the salary cap (obviously Cox does start to now that he's established himself as a player)

I forget Gault's draft position, but it wasn't high.

White can't have cost us much. Ditto Q. Lynch.

Ceglar ended up doing alright - as a ruckman for another club.

Doesn't matter how astute the list manager is, if the chef reckons quality of flour is more important than quality of blueberries then there's not much he can do.

Indeed

It was mentioned at a member's forum a few years back that Ed (and Pert) were on the list management committee.
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You lost me one paragraph in because I'm not buying that copout garbage for a second.

Let's use an actual management scenario because you know he was the manager of the list at the Collingwood football club.

A store manager for the store your shopping in is responsible for the operation of the store just as Hine was responsible for the operation of our list. His failure to address our KPP issues is akin to having 2 people working the checkout when 6 are required and his love of mids saw us with 15 people stocking the shelves when only 10 were needed. The roster is done in consultation with him and others, but if the store is failing because resources are misallocated he's the one that's ultimately responsible as the manager.

We as a club pass the buck way too often and someone had to be responsible for the shape of the list. If we move Hine out of his role it's justified just as sacking Buckley should have been and Davoren as well. Perhaps he failed due to a lack of autonomy, but if that's the case good riddance because a strong list manager would have said "you employed me to manage your list so let me do it".

This decision if it comes to pass might actually result in us acquiring someone with a proven track record in managing a list such as Bains or Beatson.

How ****ing stupid as a club are we having Ed on the list management team? Do we have Buckley or Hine sitting on the club board taking part in strategic decisions? Using the obvious example above it's like the regional and state managers having a say in the roster of the store! They employed Hine and co to do that job so the micro managing needs to stop. ****ing numpties running our club.

A very simple formula moving forward needs to be attire on match day. If you wear a suit you don't get involved in football decisions and if you wear a Collingwood polo you don't get involved in strategic decisions. Reports flow from that. Easy. Clear lines of communication.
 
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Analysis Derek Hine

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