Design Ideas for new Perth Stadium

[basashi]

The new stadium in Perth will have some "mobile phone quiet zones"

That is a bit retro isn't it?

15 years ago there were people genuinely offended by the mobile phone but that number is down to a tiny percentage these days.

Objections to mobile phones are kind of strange exceptions. They have been shown to be based primarily on two underlying causes:
1 - the ostentatious nature of speaking on a mobile phone in public. This was a major issue when the phones were mostly owned by the elite. It is pretty much a dead issue now though.
2 - inherent frustration of not being able to make sense of a conversation when you can only hear one half of it. Scenario testing has found that many people are much more annoyed is they can hear half a conversation. By adding in the other half, the level of objection drops dramatically - even though the noise (noise being the quoted nuisance) is actually doubled. This issue is in decline as people get used to only hearing half and get used to mobile phones in general.

The other thing to think about is that a day in a footy stadium is a very loud one with lots of different noises and external stimuli. The idea of objecting to the relatively mild and obscure mobile phone but still being totally up for a day at the footy just seems weird.

I guess the point I am coming to is that the inclusion of the mobile phone noise free zone seems to be evidence of a lack of effective challenging and examination of ideas for the stadium.

 

[smashing]

I interpreted it the other way around - that they are designed for the people making the phone call. It's normally pretty hard to hear the person on the other end when you're at the footy because everyone around you is so loud. Still don't think they're necessary though.

 

[basashi]

With only 16,000 more seats than Subi, it is barely worth the effort. It will not wipe out the WCE waiting list.

The city hit 1.9 million early in 2013, so they had better get cracking on planning for the replacement for this short term stop gap solution.

 

[Colonial]

With only 16,000 more seats than Subi, it is barely worth the effort. It will not wipe out the WCE waiting list.

The city hit 1.9 million early in 2013, so they had better get cracking on planning for the replacement for this short term stop gap solution.

Hate to burst your bubble but I think this is supposed to be the solution....

 

[The Speaker]

With only 16,000 more seats than Subi, it is barely worth the effort. It will not wipe out the WCE waiting list.

The city hit 1.9 million early in 2013, so they had better get cracking on planning for the replacement for this short term stop gap solution.

This is not a short-term solution. We don't need a super-mega stadium right now. Capacity can be expanded.

 

[Silent Alarm]

With only 16,000 more seats than Subi, it is barely worth the effort. It will not wipe out the WCE waiting list.

The city hit 1.9 million early in 2013, so they had better get cracking on planning for the replacement for this short term stop gap solution.

I do agree that it should be 70,000, no matter how many disagree with me. The population is expanding fairly rapidly, and I can't see footy doing anything but correlating with that growth. But it comes down to being able to, still, charge too much for a game of football – they want $50 a seat and less maintenance costs. All about supply and demand, even if the Eagles have to cap memberships and Freo start pushing a cap of our own.

But even if this place was going to seat 40,000 (and honestly, Subi's real capacity never reaches anything above 38,000), the upgrade would well be worth it. It isn't just about how many you can fit in there, but the requisites and requirements of a stadium for the country's biggest sport. You can't wallow in this 1980s footy ground with little leg room, cramped concourses, and faded facilities. Subiaco is 10 or 15 years past its use by already.

 

[The Speaker]

The population isn't going to keep expanding by as much as it is currently.

I also take it you haven't seen the most recent state budget. Building it bigger now costs money.

 

[basashi]

What depressing set of replies. At least it informs me why my attempt to return home to perth lasted such a short amount of time.

I will never understand why the normal rules of maths must be suspended in perth.

Anywhere else in the developed world, if you have 8 passengers, you get a vehicle with 8 seats. In perth, you get a 4 seater and start shouting about how it is not Hollywood and if someone wants something the correct size they can just &$÷*&$ off.

 

[seanoff]

60,000 seats is more than enough for 95% of the events that are going to be held there.
i'd be amazed if after it was built WC averaged better than 45 - 48 thousand. that sort of number puts you in the elite of world sport for attendance.

it's 12 - 13k a seat at the moment for a decent stadium. every 10000 people is an extra $130M. that's a lot of loot for maybe 1 event per year.

 

[cos789]

The population isn't going to keep expanding by as much as it is currently.

ATM the population is growing by 1500 a week. Ten weeks = 15,000 increase

The I also take it you haven't seen the most recent state budget. Building it bigger now costs money.

Building it now saves a lot of money. The Liberals are into saving money, didn't you know.

 

[cos789]

60,000 seats is more than enough for 95% of the events that are going to be held there.

So?
The dynamics of building sporting stadia aren't soley on cost and average use.
The new stadium will be comparatively well utilised by various sports.
70k seat capacity allows the introduction of pricing schemes to attract the grassroots fan.
IMO it's quite ridiculous to have 1000 TV sets when 100 is more than adequate.
What sort of fan were they polling when that beauty got determined?
Radio in the toilets - well that costs FA.
Celluar phones - I haven't seen a person using them during play that I can remember
but a lot of people use them for meeting. I don't see the problem.
Again, what sort of fan were they polling when that beauty got determined?

 

[cos789]

This is not a short-term solution.

Understatement of all time. Still in the very early stages.

We don't need a super-mega stadium right now.

Agreed, we don't, but a 70k capacity stadium would be a beautiful solution to the present chronic need.

Capacity can be expanded.

Stadim building is worse than most construction where extensions cost considerably more and cause considerably more disruption than building straight out.

 

[cos789]

I also take it you haven't seen the most recent state budget.

I'm glad you brought that up, because when the government tried to screw 150,000 people with solar panel leagal contracts for $50 million over ten years a leaked cabinet paper shwed the Liberals budgeting for an extra $4.7 billion in income over the next period.
The government gets obly one chance to get this right so let's pray they don't cheap out yet again.

 

[cos789]

10000 people is an extra $130M.

That's not a lot of money in terms of budget projection increases for the next period.

that's a lot of loot for maybe 1 event per year.

What one event ?
Probably 2 derbies.
Possibly matches against in form big four.
Definitely any final matches.
That's Australian Football.
This stadium is being built wrt to tectangular sports so then there's
all the huge RU, rl and soccer matches to be held as well.

 

[Rob]

60,000 seats is more than enough for 95% of the events that are going to be held there.

It does seem extremely likely that West Coast will be able to fill a 60,000 seat ground for every home game before the season starts. If Freo win a flag then they will come bloody close to as well.

Given that, on what possible grounds are you saying it would be 'more than enough'?

 

[seanoff]

It does seem extremely likely that West Coast will be able to fill a 60,000 seat ground for every home game before the season starts. If Freo win a flag then they will come bloody close to as well.

Given that, on what possible grounds are you saying it would be 'more than enough'?

Subi holds 43500, wce in the past 5 years have got to an average of 38000 at best. Down to 32000 when not going so well.

My maths isnt that scratchy, so thats 22000 - 28000 short of a 60000 seater.

The wait list is 20k, so just about capacity.

WCE will do well to average around 50k. They know this, they will have communicated this to the stadium planners.

Maybe the first yr. there'll be some sort of spike with the new toy, then it will settle down. Also with that many seats, the wait list might actually clear itself as people decide that they have some hope of going without a membership.

You are getting carried away. 50k average puts you in the very elite of world sport.

 

[Rob]

Subi holds 43500, wce in the past 5 years have got to an average of 38000 at best. Down to 32000 when not going so well.

My maths isnt that scratchy, so thats 22000 - 28000 short of a 60000 seater.

The wait list is 20k, so just about capacity.

WCE will do well to average around 50k. They know this, they will have communicated this to the stadium planners.

Maybe the first yr. there'll be some sort of spike with the new toy, then it will settle down. Also with that many seats, the wait list might actually clear itself as people decide that they have some hope of going without a membership.

You are getting carried away. 50k average puts you in the very elite of world sport.

Dude, almost all WCE home games are sellouts. i.e every seat in the stadium has been bought by someone. It also means that there are people that want to buy a ticket and can't, because the stadium is too small. They have a season ticket waiting list of about 10,000, each person able to buy up to 4 tickets. If we conservatively say they'd buy 2 each, that means that a 60,000 seat stadium would be full before the season starts, and then some left over on the waiting list. Amazingly, ticket prices over here are the most expensive in Australia. If we had MCG prices the Eagles would probably average 70,000+ but for capacity restraints.

Play them in a 20,000 seat stadium and they'd probably average 16,000. That doesn't mean they don't need a bigger ground. You really have no idea how big they are over here. Even Freo are a big club in Australian sport terms, probably the top 5 in terms of support.

I can completely understand why they are building it to 60,000, but it's highly likely that there could be well over a dozen games a year that will sell out.

 

[Admiral Byng]

I think there is a valid point to some members dropping their membership with the new stadium. If they have a membership but only attend for say half the games because of other commitments, they might see value in dropping their membership and just buying casual tickets for the few games they want. Even with a 60,000 seater there is still likely to be seats available for the casual buyer, as opposed to practically none at Subi.

 

[cos789]

I think there is a valid point to some members dropping their membership with the new stadium. If they have a membership but only attend for say half the games because of other commitments, they might see value in dropping their membership and just buying casual tickets for the few games they want. Even with a 60,000 seater there is still likely to be seats available for the casual buyer, as opposed to practically none at Subi.

It is a valid point to suggest some members drop their membership if the perception is that seats are readily available. It's equally valid to point out that this will not be a huge number and members will be hesitant to relinquish their priority seats for a chance at lower quality seats since there wont be that much additional seating available..
It is more than valid to point out that there will be a huge amount of new interest in memberships because of the absolute superiority of the new stadium over that of Subiaco. Subiaco has very few good viewing seats. Subiaco stadium is narrowest at the wings with very little seating in fact one wing would hardly be considered a "stand" at all. With the level of hype about the quality of the new stadium I can see a huge increase in demand above present memberships and waiting lists.

 

[budge27]

Will be interested to see if they offer a stadium membership similar to a MCC or WACA membership. Would be great to go to anything played at the stadium and not worry about a ticket. Subi Oval could never offer this sort of deal due to its size but I reckon you could have say 5,000 seats allocated to this type of scenario at the new ground.

 

[holybishop]

Will be interested to see if they offer a stadium membership similar to a MCC or WACA membership. Would be great to go to anything played at the stadium and not worry about a ticket. Subi Oval could never offer this sort of deal due to its size but I reckon you could have say 5,000 seats allocated to this type of scenario at the new ground.

Never. Ground members were always a cricket thing that came from England and was forced upon football due to playing footy at some of the cricket grounds. Closest thing may be like the Medallion Club they have at Docklands and that's more a corporate membership, not for the average fan.

 

[basashi]

Subi holds 43500, wce in the past 5 years have got to an average of 38000 (A) at best. Down to 32000 when not going so well.

My maths isnt that scratchy, so thats 22000 - 28000 short of a 60000 seater.

The wait list is 20k (B), so just about capacity.

WCE will do well to average around 50k. They know this, they will have communicated this to the stadium planners.

Maybe the first yr. there'll be some sort of spike with the new toy, then it will settle down. Also with that many seats, the wait list might actually clear itself as people decide that they have some hope of going without a membership.

You are getting carried away. 50k average puts you in the very elite of world sport. (C)

(A) Games at Subi have between 4 and 10k seats paid for and not used at each game. Using the game day attendance is, as you know, not relevant without acknowledging that. Due to the scarcity, lots of people do not dare relinquish their seat.

(B) The wait list is 20k..... now, of the extra 16k seats, do you think all 16k will be able to be sold to members or do you think the AFL will apply its usual ratio rule (the rule that currently stops WCE from selling 44k memberships)? I will give you a rough tip... of the 20k (2013 levels) people in the waiting list only about 12k will be offered a membership. That will leave 8k.... in current numbers.

(C) 50k average? Elite? Given that the population of Perth was 1897548 on 31 dec 2012, and the amount of interest in Aussie rules, you would have to agree that getting 50k per week to AFL games in Perth is p155weak. Subi, a 44k stadium with two teams and a population of 1897548 gives us only 23 seats per 1000 residents per week. The 60k stadium only lifts is to 31.... still 50 behind Melbourne's 82 seats per 1000 residents per week. With interest per capita roughly similar, we are operating on the same curve and in WA we seem to have selected (or had selected for us) the idea of operating at the high cost, low volume end of the curve. We will still have the lowest access per capita of the football states. Even if we got the third team and a 60k stadium, we are still starved of supply.

But would people go?

Consider the prices for home games of the MCG tenants...
- MCG members... $0
- 11 game unallocated club members... $17.28
- family of 4 members... $8.20
- adult walkups without any concession ... $20

Only after you factor in these people and (and several other classes of cheap membership) do you start to get a handful of people paying anywhere NEAR Perth prices.

That is why the average high school student in Perth has not been to and never will go to an AFL game. That is why teenagers in Melbourne can go to a game at the drop of a hat.

 

[Silent Alarm]

That is why the average high school student in Perth has not been to and never will go to an AFL game. That is why teenagers in Melbourne can go to a game at the drop of a hat.

This is such a massive point. I love going to the footy in Melbs because it's so casual. You get people there because they're footy fans, because their mates are going, for something to do before heading out on a Saturday night... some people gasbag and girls take photos of themselves all games. That's what I like. You can earn an average wage and still have the right to take your young bloke to the football and yell and carry on all afternoon – that's such a great part of footy culture and Perth misses out.

It's such a hassle to go to the footy in Perth. If you want to go to most games, you might as well get a membership. Then you have to think about who you can go with... for the entire season. So you have to go with the same people and organise games 10 months in advance. That's absolutely ludicrous for what's essentially entertainment. You should be able to ask your mate on Tuesday or your dad on Thursday and still get a seat.

The footy culture in WA could be so much better. Imagine how huge each derby would be if more people have a chance at actually getting a seat?

Western Australia's footy sides are so big. One million people per club, 100 years of it being the primary sport, lots of attachment, lots of shit-slinging, and now, a bit of bandwagoning and success. But even with poor results, the Dockers and Eagles don't have highly fluctuating crowds. The drop isn't that deep.

I would be surprised if the Eagles averaged less than 55,000 in 2018. They could fill that in 2013. You have to be realistic and expect they'll play finals once or twice at least in the next five years, so that's more fans and more excitement.

Freo will be pushing 50,000 averages by then as well. We have 43,000 members or something. So if 30,000 are Perth-based and we grow by 10,000 in five years, you'll still have at least 6,000 people coming from the country, for something to do, or because their away club is playing.

As someone else said, I can see why 60,000 was the agreed number. And to be honest, I'm surprised the government haven't lowered it even further. But this is a stadium for the next 50, 60 years, and 60,000 will be short-sighted in even a third of that time.

 

[basashi]

You can earn an average wage and still have the right to take your young bloke to the football

You should ask a mod to delete that bit for you. In Perth it will earn you a torch wielding mob, ready to tear your house down to smash you into a thousand pieces.

 

[Balance]

60 000 is a joke. Should be 80 000 minimum, Eagles could fill that if they're going well, which would probably be full house with 68-72 attending, let alone Derbies. This is the immediate future, look 30 years ahead and 80 000 probably won't be enough even for Freo!