Do Fitzroy deserve a VFL team

[Collingwoodity]

Read the Deed of Arrangement (reproduced in full on the Fitzroy board) check with ASIC and look at what Associate Justice Nemeer Mukhtar had to say about the merger in 2009 when Fitzroy and Brisbane took the matter to the Supreme Court of Victoria.

I'm also a shareholder of the Fitzroy Football Club and have been since 1986. I'm still a shareholder of the very same club. I'm not a shareholder of the Brisbane Lions.

Fitzroy lost their AFL licence in 1996 and Brisbane Bears rebranded. The Brisbane Lions were formed in 1987.

The Deed of Arrangement states that:

b) on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will transfer to Brisbane Bears all tangible and intangible assets associated with its Club Operations (including all memorabilia) and pay to Brisbane Bears all available moneys by repayment of the Loan advances made under clauses 4.2(b) and 4.2 (d).


One would assume that the tangible assets to include premiership cups and the intangible assets to include the right to claim goodwill and ownership of the history of the Fitzroy Football Club?

If Fitzroy Football Club wanted to apply for an AFL licence what would the official name be and could they claim ownership of their pre-1997 history?

 

[Roylion]

The Deed of Arrangement states that:

b) on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will transfer to Brisbane Bears all tangible and intangible assets associated with its Club Operations (including all memorabilia) and pay to Brisbane Bears all available moneys by repayment of the Loan advances made under clauses 4.2(b) and 4.2 (d).

The Deed of Arrangement also states

Definitions (page 5)

"Merged Club" means Brisbane Bears which will conduct the combined Club Operations of Fitzroy and Brisbane Bears following the Merger;

2. ARRANGEMENTS (page 6)

Except as provided in this Deed, nothing in this Deed will be construed or interpreted to mean that Brisbane Bears will assume any liability for the debts or obligations of Fitzroy or that the Brisbane Bears will have any input in the ongoing management of Fitzroy after the Merger Date.

6. BRISBANE BEARS' CHANGE OF NAME (page 10)
Brisbane Bears shall arrange for a general meeting to be held at which a special resolution will be proposed to change the company name of Brisbane Bears to Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club Limited and Brisbane Bears shall use its best endeavours to obtain such approval.

(page 10)
after the end of the 1996 Season and on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will cease its Fitzroy Operations, terminate the membership of its Appointee of AFL (appointed pursuant to AFL's constituent documents and surrender its AFL Licence and release AFL from all claims connected with its AFL Licence and such termination and surrender.

(page 10-11)
a) The "Merged Club" (i.e the Brisbane Bears Football Club) will trade as Brisbane Lions Australian Football Club and subject to the passing of the special resolution referred to in clause 6, the Merged Club (see Definition of 'Merged Club' above) will be re-named Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club Limited

One would assume that the tangible assets to include premiership cups and the intangible assets to include the right to claim goodwill and ownership of the history of the Fitzroy Football Club?

Fitzroy had no premiership cups. They have since been commissioned and are owned by the Brisbane Lions. The AFL (and hence the Brisbane Lions) have a legal right to celebrate and commemorate Fitzroy's VFL-AFL history.

Fitzroy Football Club playing in the VFA is the guardian of all three eras of the Club's history. (VFA, VFL-AFL and VAFA). They and the Brisbane Lions share the promotion and commemoration of Fitzroy's VFL-AFL history. Brisbane do that within the confines of the AFL competition.

For example the Fitzroy Football Club has trademarked the FFC logo. Even though the FFC logo was used in the VFL-AFL, the AFL does not own that slice of Fitzroy's brand. Fitzroy can, and does, use that logo as part of its own marketing and there's nothing the AFL can do about it. Not that they really want to either.

If Fitzroy Football Club wanted to apply for an AFL licence what would the official name be and could they claim ownership of their pre-1997 history?

They own their own history now. Brisbane and the AFL may share it, but they can't take it away from the Fitzroy Football Club.

The Fitzroy Football Club, currently competing in the VAFA are legally (established in the Supreme Court of Victoria in 2010), (they currently are as they started...an amateur football representing the suburb of Fitzroy at the Brunswick Street Oval) and morally, the very same club as the Fitzroy that competed in the VFL-AFL for one hundred years.

They have their own board of directors and club constitution (from their AFL days), their own shareholders (from 1986), their own members and their own revenue streams distinct from the Brisbane Lions. They also have their own players (four teams, seniors, reserves, thirds and U/19s as well as a women's team) and their own home ground (which is their original home ground). Not to mention Fitzroy still own much of their IP that they had in the AFL, including the FFC logo.

If Fitzroy were to re-enter the AFL, they'd re-enter as "Fitzroy". Probably not as the "Lions" as that moniker has been appropriated by the Brisbane Bears. They'd find another one... "Reds" (ss opposed to the Carlton Blues), "Gorillas", "Maroons" or maybe even a brand new one. Fitzroy Leopards? "Fitzroy Bears?" Who knows.

 

[Viceregal]

"Fitzroy Bears?" Who knows.

Having the Brisbane Lions and the Fitzroy Bears in the competition would certainly be ironic!

... and confusing to the public (they would have to stop calling Brisbane 'the bears' when they are trying to be trollish)

Edit - Oh and please don't pick a koala as your bear type - it doesn't really work...

 

[killer]

all they got was 7.5 players and Coburg's dumbells

 

[Roylion]

Having the Brisbane Lions and the Fitzroy Bears in the competition would certainly be ironic!

... and confusing to the public (they would have to stop calling Brisbane 'the bears' when they are trying to be trollish)

Edit - Oh and please don't pick a koala as your bear type - it doesn't really work...

Agree on that last bit.

The Fitzroy Bears?

or the Fitzroy Leopards having something like this

or something like this....

 

[Mobbs]

Edit - Oh and please don't pick a koala as your bear type - it doesn't really work...

Generally agree too, although leagues are replete with representations from fauna which hardly strike fear into the passer-by, yet it still can work. Refer Swans, Kookaburras, Cats ... and would you believe Swallows!

Koala - I'm gonna tear you to shreds you weenie swan. Then I'm ... what? What are you doing?
Swan - Shutup and put on this this algae mask.

 

[JOHNNY GASTEV]

25 years today since Fitzroy folded What division does Fitzroy play in the VAFA these days? If Preston could be reformed after Carlton dumped them why couldn’t the Roys be in the VFL? The club could be called the maroons/reds depending on colours and put a small lion badge somewhere on the jumper. Just a thought

 

[Mobbs]

25 years today since Fitzroy folded What division does Fitzroy play in the VAFA these days? If Preston could be reformed after Carlton dumped them why couldn’t the Roys be in the VFL? The club could be called the maroons/reds depending on colours and put a small lion badge somewhere on the jumper. Just a thought

Fitzroy is in Premier B (the 2nd tier). Not sure they want to be in the VFL. They kindah like the VAFA!

 

[Heardy_101]

Maybe ask Brisbane if they'll rebrand their VFL side as Fitzroy.

 

[fumbler]

Fitzroy is in Premier B (the 2nd tier). Not sure they want to be in the VFL. They kindah like the VAFA!

I yes they’re a long way off and also imagine the costs involved in traveling to Aspley etc.

 

[Roylion]

25 years today since Fitzroy folded

Is it?

If Preston could be reformed after Carlton dumped them why couldn’t the Roys be in the VFL?

Costs of travel and ground facilities are two major reasons.

 

[Mobbs]

Fitzroy are a footy club and play in a footy league.

The VFL, while once a footy league, is now a bucket of mutated vomit. There is no footy there. Just perverted machinery full of shudders where the AFL touched it.

 

[Freomaniac]

Fitzroy are a footy club and play in a footy league.

The VFL, while once a footy league, is now a bucket of mutated vomit. There is no footy there. Just perverted machinery full of shudders where the AFL touched it.

fair enough

 

[EBERT THE KING]

VFL will look totally different next year. Cant see any of the interstate clubs being part of it.

I think it should be:

North Melbourne
Footscray
Richmond
Geelong
Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Sandringham
Casey
Coburg
Preston
Williamstown
Box Hill
Fitzroy

Its too hard to start VFL Clubs from scracth so given the strong history of Fitzroy, this will give them a leg up already.

It should be a completely separate entity to the VAFA Fitzroy club.

 

[Roylion]

It should be a completely separate entity to the VAFA Fitzroy club.

How? Will we have two Fitzroy Football Clubs?

The VAFA Fitzroy is THE Fitzroy Football Club (once in the VFA, VFL and AFL)

 

[fumbler]

VFL will look totally different next year. Cant see any of the interstate clubs being part of it.

I think it should be:

North Melbourne
Footscray
Richmond
Geelong
Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Sandringham
Casey
Coburg
Preston
Williamstown
Box Hill
Fitzroy

Its too hard to start VFL Clubs from scracth so given the strong history of Fitzroy, this will give them a leg up already.

It should be a completely separate entity to the VAFA Fitzroy club.

Port, Werribee and Frankston fold do they?

I made a map on a different page but i think that the VFL should just be a AFL Reserves minus WA, SA, QLD and NSW.
Then have the VFA return, but since Casey and Melbourne unmerge as well as Box Hill Hawks and Sandringham and Saints it would be:
Box Hill
Casey
Coburg
Port
Preston
Frankston/Sandringham
Williamstown
Werribee

Maybe Fitzroy? and Maybe Prahran? or leave it at 8 for a few years to build the rivalry back up

How? Will we have two Fitzroy Football Clubs?

The VAFA Fitzroy is THE Fitzroy Football Club (once in the VFA, VFL and AFL)

And you have to be where you are most comfortable.
No use trying to be bigger if you don't have to.

 

[Mobbs]

There's just no point in trying to downgrade. Fitzroy are already in a comp that has soul.

 

[JOHNNY GASTEV]

How? Will we have two Fitzroy Football Clubs?

The VAFA Fitzroy is THE Fitzroy Football Club (once in the VFA, VFL and AFL)

Personally I’d move the amateur club up, they have a list and a following. Heavily involving ex AFL/VFL players could create some serious interest from disgruntled ex Fitzroy/Brisbane lions fans. Just putting my 2 bobs worth in.

 

[Viceregal]

How? Will we have two Fitzroy Football Clubs?

The VAFA Fitzroy is THE Fitzroy Football Club (once in the VFA, VFL and AFL)

Personally I’d move the amateur club up, they have a list and a following. Heavily involving ex AFL/VFL players could create some serious interest from disgruntled ex Fitzroy/Brisbane lions fans. Just putting my 2 bobs worth in.

Perhaps they don't *want* to play in the VFL ... perhaps they don't *want* to put themselves in pole position to be screwed over by the AFL's focus on their competition development over the health of the game ... certainly there would be some legacy support (and not just from disgruntled btw) but really totally up to the Fitzroy Football Club to decide if that is something they want or feel it is a toxic 'promotion'

 

[Carn the Roys!]

Fitzroy are a footy club and play in a footy league.

The VFL, while once a footy league, is now a bucket of mutated vomit. There is no footy there. Just perverted machinery full of shudders where the AFL touched it.

I've generally thought the fairest option in 1996 if the AFL were dead set on having to knife a Melbourne based club (as if that's solved the crazy imbalance in the AFL that still exists 25 years later), would have been to buy out Fitzroys AFL Licence and allow them to continue in their own right in the VFL. The saddest part of the way things went down was the way it split the community around the football club.

But, having seen seen what the AFL have done to the once proud VFA over the last quarter of a decade it's obvious that it wouldn't have been a perfect option.

Since Fitzroy FC merged with the Fitzroy Reds and started playing again in the VAFA a lot has been done to rebuild what was lost including the Brisbane Lions doing a great job of honoring Fitzroys history and building a relationship with the modern FFC (and producing a stead stream of 'retro' Fitzroy merch for me to wear). In a normal football season Brunswick Street Oval is a vibrant hub of the local community with huge junior and senior football clubs keeping the sport alive in Fitzroy. We also have groups like the Fitzroy-Brisbane Lions Historical Society and informal online communities like this and the many facebook groups the keep the club alive.

It might not have worked out perfectly for us. But we haven't been left with nothing. People who care about Fitzroy still have a lot to focus on, we don't need the VFL, and we certainly don't need a fake artificially created team calling themselves Fitzroy in the VFL.

 

[Marcel Proust]

The Deed of Arrangement states that:

b) on or before the Merger Date, Fitzroy will transfer to Brisbane Bears all tangible and intangible assets associated with its Club Operations (including all memorabilia) and pay to Brisbane Bears all available moneys by repayment of the Loan advances made under clauses 4.2(b) and 4.2 (d).


One would assume that the tangible assets to include premiership cups and the intangible assets to include the right to claim goodwill and ownership of the history of the Fitzroy Football Club?

If Fitzroy Football Club wanted to apply for an AFL licence what would the official name be and could they claim ownership of their pre-1997 history?

Make it a phoenix club, AFC Wimbledon style.

I'm sure many non lions fans would pay memberships...

 

[Mobbs]

Personally I’d move the amateur club up, they have a list and a following. Heavily involving ex AFL/VFL players could create some serious interest from disgruntled ex Fitzroy/Brisbane lions fans. Just putting my 2 bobs worth in.

Strange that some fans need to be spoonfed a reason to be interested, rather than following a natural love.