Do we have to win a flag - in the Richo era?

[Bentleigh]

I really think we need to make our mission over the next two years to build a side good enough to win a grand final before richo retires. I'm not even talking about rewarding richo for loyalty and stuff. I am just saying richo is a 1 in every 25 years sorta power forward, we've probably only had 3 or 4 in our history. We have to take advantage now before its too late and we're left without a star big man in our forwardline.

It's very hard to win flags without gun KPP forwards.

With a Hall, Tredrea, Brown then your going to struggle I would think.

 

[Weaver]

Well Adelaide and West Coast are favourites and neither has a forward line let alone a gun forward.

Yes a gun forward is handy, but as Sydney proved you can always break the bank and get that guy in when you need him (Hall). West Coast should have given Carlton their first born for Fevola, they'd be unbackable favourites if they had.

Good forwards profit from dominant midfields.

If we build a midfield as dominant as WCE or Adelaide's we will win 16 games and be in the premiership mix even with Schulz, Hughes and Pattison as forwards.

 

[Kurtis G]

In two years you'd hope that Schulz would be close to being as dominate as Richo has been in the later stages of his career. Alot to ask that he controls the forward line as Richo did at the same age, especially in todays footy, Richardson was a very talented youngster, but I think Schulz will be a 500 goal kicker.

Personally I believe Richo will play for three more seasons. He wont be able to just give it up at the end of his two year contract.

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

If we build a midfield as dominant as WCE or Adelaide's we will win 16 games and be in the premiership mix even with Schulz, Hughes and Pattison as forwards.

Exactly,

As much as it would be nice for Richo to be part of any Tiger Premiership, he isnt a required piece in the puzzle. It's all about the midfielders.

Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Braun, Fletcher, Embley, Stenglein, Selwood, Waters, Armstrong.- its why they are favourites and a dominate team.

Coughlan, Tuck, Johnson, Hyde, Foley, Tivendale its why its so important that Deledio and Tambling come on... even still it doesnt compare

 

[Khan]

Exactly,

As much as it would be nice for Richo to be part of any Tiger Premiership, he isnt a required piece in the puzzle. It's all about the midfielders.

Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Braun, Fletcher, Embley, Stenglein, Selwood, Waters, Armstrong.- its why they are favourites and a dominate team.

Coughlan, Tuck, Johnson, Hyde, Foley, Tivendale its why its so important that Deledio and Tambling come on... even still it doesnt compare

Idealy

Coughlan, Tuck, Johnson, Hyde, Foley, Newman, Deledio and Tambling. But you are right at this parsec doesnt compare with the WC

 

[Kurtis G]

Sort of compares if you look two years into the future with Deledio and Bling.

Thing is Eagles have Judd and Kerr, absolute guns, total stars and excellent players, so what? Most clubs have one or two elite players. I'll tell you what, just backing up what PRR said, they then have Cousins. COUSINS! A natural leader and a Brownlow winner, theres three, then add the other players PRR mentioned. Embley is an X-factor. Bigger vodied midfielder who can be a match up nightmare and can kick some nice goals. Fletcher and Stenglein are guns. Unfortunatly for them they arent considered up with the top three in their team because they play in the same team. If they were in Victoria or somewhere else they'd be rated alot higher.

We dont have to worry about not having a key forward for our premiership side because if Richo is gone we have Schulz and the other young fellas. And even if we dont, we can always trade our first two picks for a gun forward as we will be in the position to do so by that time.

Peace out.

 

[ata40]

It would be good to reward Richo with a flag, but time may be against this.

Our run/carry game is not overly reliant on a KPP taking contensted marks. If anything Richo is a bit of an enigma in this sort of set-up. Richo's license to actually roam especially wide into flanks makes him harder to read and very hard to rove to. Schultz runs cleaner lines and as such has a better percentage of bringing the likes of Krakeur,Tambling and Hydes into play.

I believe that Delidio may be our future KP forward. His athletic prowess really suits the modern gameplan.

 

[tomthetiger]

Interesting: In two years I'd expect our best four midfielders (discluding any recruitments this or next year) to be Tuck, Coughlan, Deledio and Tambling. If Deledio and Tambling can improve to be anything like Adelaide or West Coasts best, then our top 4 altogether will be one of the best in the comp. However, we really need a decent second tier midfield: Hyde etc need to step up. Then we need to pick up 2 very good midfielders again in the next 2 years to make the top4, a top6.

 

[Calcium Man]

Interesting: In two years I'd expect our best four midfielders (discluding any recruitments this or next year) to be Tuck, Coughlan, Deledio and Tambling. If Deledio and Tambling can improve to be anything like Adelaide or West Coasts best, then our top 4 altogether will be one of the best in the comp. However, we really need a decent second tier midfield: Hyde etc need to step up. Then we need to pick up 2 very good midfielders again in the next 2 years to make the top4, a top6.

Then we have polo, who is looking good to turn into a stenglien or kirk type player. Danny boy will be another good midfielder cum forward. Then hopefuly JON steps up. plus if guys like foley, white and howat come one it will be a solid midfield. plus theres casserly.

It makes Selwood like a good choice for this draft.

 

[Kurtis G]

It would be good to reward Richo with a flag, but time may be against this.

Our run/carry game is not overly reliant on a KPP taking contensted marks. If anything Richo is a bit of an enigma in this sort of set-up. Richo's license to actually roam especially wide into flanks makes him harder to read and very hard to rove to. Schultz runs cleaner lines and as such has a better percentage of bringing the likes of Krakeur,Tambling and Hydes into play.

I believe that Delidio may be our future KP forward. His athletic prowess really suits the modern gameplan.

Robert Murphy type? Interesting call. It could work, but we have players such as Pettifer and Meyer who can step up as more athletic forwards, putting Deledio up there would be wasting his talent, although I would like to see him spend more time up there like last season, especially when he cant break the tag.

 

[Truetiger]

It would be good to reward Richo with a flag, but time may be against this.

As i would of liked to reward Wayne Campbell and Matthew Knights with a flag. As good as it would of been not everything can end on wonderful Fashion.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Well Adelaide and West Coast are favourites and neither has a forward line let alone a gun forward.

Why aren't West coast totally dominating? Look at their midfield:

Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Braun, Fletcher, Embley, Stenglein, Selwood, Waters, Armstrong

On paper, possibly the greatest midfielder ever? Maybe only WCE early 90s and Brisbane 2001-2003 compares.

Why didnt they win last year? Why arent they on top this year? Because they have no gun forward.

As for adelaide, well I have my doubts about their gameplan and their weaknesses, west coast really shellacked them. I think adelaide wont make the grand final this year to be honest, and if they do they wont win. But that aside, they have a gun forward anyway: Ricciuto! What he lacks in height he makes up for in strength and explosive leadng.

 

[The White Tiger]

Why aren't West coast totally dominating? Look at their midfield:

On paper, possibly the greatest midfielder ever? Maybe only WCE early 90s and Brisbane 2001-2003 compares.

Why didnt they win last year? Why arent they on top this year? Because they have no gun forward.

As for adelaide, well I have my doubts about their gameplan and their weaknesses, west coast really shellacked them. I think adelaide wont make the grand final this year to be honest, and if they do they wont win. But that aside, they have a gun forward anyway: Ricciuto! What he lacks in height he makes up for in strength and explosive leadng.

Its way too early to compare them to Lions they havent acheived anything yet. I'd have to agree more with weaver, a gun forward is great but relying on one guy is frought with danger, and look at the ladder again, they are equal top with adelaide on wins.

 

[Tyger]

West Coast may not have a gun forward but the big Q has turned out to be quite useful. Any forward with ability to play AFL can't help but kick goals when the ball is continually pumped inside 50 by a gun mid field.

 

[Wally Matera]

I dont know if we will need him to win us a premiership, but what l do know is that there is no one l want more to be involved in the mighty tigers winning the flag.

Can you imagine the big fella collecting his premiership medal, the tiger faithful would be going mental!

Good luck to the big number 12!

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

There is a huge difference between a useful forward and a gamebreaker. A gamebreaker with a gun midfield delivering it down his throat will kick 100 goals a year on a regular basis. A useful forward is pretty much limited to 50-70.

Anyway, I'm not saying a good midfield isnt important. But that alone cannot win you a premiership. Now we dont have a gun defender, nor gun small forwards (browny excepted). We really only have one recognised superstar since browny snapped his leg in three. We have only had 1 superstar since 1993. Its Richo, and if we want to win a premiership we need to do it now, our midfield is maybe 1 classy part time midfielder short (akermanis or someone else) of being good enough to win a premiership. We have pacy players, hard nuts, silky skills players, ball winners, taggers, and the best thing is they mostly under 25. Think about all the possible midfield options in the next few years: Coughlan, Polo, Johnson, Tuck, Foley, Deledio, Joel Bowden, hartigan (?), Howat (?), hyde, meyer, raines, oakley-nicholls, tambling, white and even pettifer.

If we got Aker, our forwardline would then also look quite imposing (browny, pettifer, richardson, deledio and aker rotating, schulz, patto and prospects limbach and hughes) Our backline is screwed for talls, thats our major hurdle. But that can be solved with a polak or someone decent. Although we have to act now because our backline is not gonna look any better in 2 years time: kellaway will be retired, gaspar will be retired, hall will be delisted, leaving us with 2 unproven players thursty and mcguane or someone. Not good. So yes, we need to make a charge for the premiership in 2008 IMO.

 

[Calcium Man]

Im not exactly sure why we would be worried over our forward line??

Shulz will be a very good full forward.

Brownie will still be running around.

Hughes looked alright when he got a run earlier in the season.

And i can see Tambling, Meyer, Deledio and JON all rotating thru the half forward line.

McGuane and Limbach could be anything yet.

A player like Gumbleton would be great as a CHF but putting together an awesome midfield with the semblence of forward line has worked for both Adelaide and WC and i think we will have a decent forward line in a few years.
With a good midfeild the ball will continually get pumped in there giving us more opportunity and protecting our backman.

It would great to win a flag for richo but he isnt crucial to us winning one.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Way too much faith in Schulz around here. He'll be lucky to play 150 games and kick 250 goals i reckon. Jeff Hogg-esque at best.

Brownie will still be running around, but hes not a key forward. And hes got what? 3 years-4 years.

Hughes is still too young to say. Ditto McGuane and Limbach.

Tambling, Meyer, Lids and JON, all good small forward options but ideally that will be our midfield (lids and bling in the centre, meyer and jon on the wings). I am talking superstar key forward here.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Way too much faith in Schulz around here. He'll be lucky to play 150 games and kick 250 goals i reckon. Jeff Hogg-esque at best.

Brownie will still be running around, but hes not a key forward. And hes got what? 3 years-4 years.

Hughes is still too young to say. Ditto McGuane and Limbach.

Tambling, Meyer, Lids and JON, all good small forward options but idealy that will be out midfield (lids and bling in the centre, meyer and jon on the wings). I am talking superstar key forward here.

Unless, JON gets to 190 cm and 90 kg, then he could possibly play as a fast key forward like tarrant but better.

 

[1980GFVideo]

I wonder how Richo felt about the five year plan talk given his age.

He would have known that while the club had to be bold with youth and bite the bullet for two or three years it was probably going to be at the expense of him playing in a premiership. The best he can hope for is watching in the stands with some links to the players out there.

Given his injuries and the number of CHF like contests he is involved in down forward, he could only have two years and it might not be his decision.

Then again he was never close in his career. the closest he came was if Northey remained after 1995. Even then we didnt have a premiership team just alot of good solid triers who lacked the class to get back in a match once the scoreboard pressure hit.

Unfortunate but true. He will be remembered a bit like Robbie Flower from Melbourne - without the class of Flower.

 

[Calcium Man]

I would say diversity would be the key to a forward line, especially in todays game. It makes it hard for the defenders to read.

Look at Collingwoods forward line i wouldnt say Rocca or Tarrant are good forwards but neither are in Richo's class, than they have Didak a poor mans brown, Davis a pretty good crumber but not the best in the league. Yet most arguably they have the best forward line in the league.

Sydney, while having hall, also have a real diverse forward set up with o'lachlan and o'keefe, N. Davis and sumtimes goodes pushing forward. The other team with close to the best forward line.

Well we dont know what schulz will become, so what happens there is anybodys guess. I think he will be pretty good player personally, but you might be right too.

Hughes will be our tarrant equivilant tho a better set shot i hear. Brown is a clever forward, Pettifer is another important cog up forward. Lids, tambling, meyer and JON will rotate off the HFF, they cant be inthe midfield the whole time and others will step in there, Tuck, Cogs, Polo, White, Foley, Raines and Howat (hopefully) and then casserly is still yet to get a shot and who knows what we will get in this years draft. So it would be nice to have a brilliant KPP forward but i think we will have a very functional forward line.

 

[Bentleigh]

Interesting: In two years I'd expect our best four midfielders (discluding any recruitments this or next year) to be Tuck, Coughlan, Deledio and Tambling. If Deledio and Tambling can improve to be anything like Adelaide or West Coasts best, then our top 4 altogether will be one of the best in the comp. However, we really need a decent second tier midfield: Hyde etc need to step up. Then we need to pick up 2 very good midfielders again in the next 2 years to make the top4, a top6.

Then we have polo, who is looking good to turn into a stenglien or kirk type player. Danny boy will be another good midfielder cum forward. Then hopefuly JON steps up. plus if guys like foley, white and howat come one it will be a solid midfield. plus theres casserly.

It makes Selwood like a good choice for this draft.

 

[Bentleigh]

Why aren't West coast totally dominating? Look at their midfield:

On paper, possibly the greatest midfielder ever? Maybe only WCE early 90s and Brisbane 2001-2003 compares.

Why didnt they win last year? Why arent they on top this year? Because they have no gun forward.

Well, thats abit unfair.

WCE came within a kick of the flag last season.

Why aren't West coast totally dominating? - because football is a sport where its very hard to win all 22 games. To come top 2, comforably is enough.

Look at their midfeild - Judd & Kerr are still pups, Cousins and Braun are the old men at 28, Fletcher, Stenglein, Embley and the rest still have their best football ahead of them.

If you look at their list: http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-west-coast-eagles?year=2006&sby=9

Its amazingly young. Even if you look at their KPP players, they are all early 20's.

As for adelaide, well I have my doubts about their gameplan and their weaknesses, west coast really shellacked them. I think adelaide wont make the grand final this year to be honest, and if they do they wont win. But that aside, they have a gun forward anyway: Ricciuto! What he lacks in height he makes up for in strength and explosive leadng.

Using the WCE game sort of upsets you WCE arugment.

Tell Raines Ricciuto is a gun

 

[Bentleigh]

There is a huge difference between a useful forward and a gamebreaker. A gamebreaker with a gun midfield delivering it down his throat will kick 100 goals a year on a regular basis. A useful forward is pretty much limited to 50-70.

Not any more mate - times have changed.

Even the gun forwards stuggle to kick 50 goals these days. 70 is the new 100.

Anyway, I'm not saying a good midfield isnt important. But that alone cannot win you a premiership. Now we dont have a gun defender, nor gun small forwards (browny excepted). We really only have one recognised superstar since browny snapped his leg in three. We have only had 1 superstar since 1993. Its Richo, and if we want to win a premiership we need to do it now, our midfield is maybe 1 classy part time midfielder short (akermanis or someone else) of being good enough to win a premiership. We have pacy players, hard nuts, silky skills players, ball winners, taggers, and the best thing is they mostly under 25. Think about all the possible midfield options in the next few years: Coughlan, Polo, Johnson, Tuck, Foley, Deledio, Joel Bowden, hartigan (?), Howat (?), hyde, meyer, raines, oakley-nicholls, tambling, white and even pettifer.

If we got Aker, our forwardline would then also look quite imposing (browny, pettifer, richardson, deledio and aker rotating, schulz, patto and prospects limbach and hughes) Our backline is screwed for talls, thats our major hurdle. But that can be solved with a polak or someone decent. Although we have to act now because our backline is not gonna look any better in 2 years time: kellaway will be retired, gaspar will be retired, hall will be delisted, leaving us with 2 unproven players thursty and mcguane or someone. Not good. So yes, we need to make a charge for the premiership in 2008 IMO.

Fair point.

I'll raise the question again: do we need to win the flag in the next 2 or 3 seasons if we are to have a realistic crack any time soon?

I remember Wallace saying something similar, any then concluding we might have to wait for the following era.. "when Deledio is 24/25".

I know people like talking about 2009, but its going to be very hard without: Richo, J Bowden, Johnson, Brown, Gaspar, Simmonds and co. all being on their last legs at that stage.

 

[Maquis de Saad]

Not any more mate - times have changed.

Even the gun forwards stuggle to kick 50 goals these days. 70 is the new 100.



Fair point.

I'll raise the question again: do we need to win the flag in the next 2 or 3 seasons if we are to have a realistic crack any time soon?

I remember Wallace saying something similar, any then concluding we might have to wait for the following era.. "when Deledio is 24/25".

I know people like talking about 2009, but its going to be very hard without: Richo, J Bowden, Johnson, Brown, Gaspar, Simmonds and co. all being on their last legs at that stage.

Question still doesnt make sense..