Driving an elbow into a player who's on the ground - should it get weeks?

[Leather Poisoning]

Want to get a sense of what others think about this. I'm angry about it but clearly biased - happy to admit it. And I know Nick Watson is a massive antagonist as well.

There was also an incident in the WA derby where Big Treacy had someone leaning their elbow into his throat and the dude looked panicked.

There's a big increase in taunting and trash talk to players on the ground (especially if someone's been caught HTB). Reckon this might be one the AFL should actually look at reeling in.

 

[Cyclonus]

Not ideal.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Play like a grub, get treated like a grub.
Hardly surprising.

 

[Vintage]

Conduct unbecoming, 1 week

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Play like a grub, get treated like a grub.
Hardly surprising.

Not sure I've seen Watson do that to anyone if you're trying to say it's valid retaliation

 

[KissKiss]

I didnt see what happened before this so cant comment on that. But dropping elbows or leaning on the face/neck area with the elbow/forearm should lead to a straight ban. Absolutely not a football act and should be cracked down on.

Wouldnt be surprised if the AFL just went with a fine though.

 

[1970crow]

Not a good look, could have caused injury, I'd be guessing the old 'potential to cause' will rear its head again and Max will miss a game or 3. Is the gut punch a week - intentional, medium and body. Could be as bad as 4 all up if the pushing head into ground contact is deemed high impact.

 

[Paul Kersey]

He had a fair meltdown. Imagine he was being sledged all day and snapped.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Not a good look, could have caused injury, I'd be guessing the old 'potential to cause' will rear its head again and Max will miss a game or 3. Is the gut punch a week - intentional, medium and body. Could be as bad as 4 all up if the pushing head into ground contact is deemed high impact.

It'll probably end up as misconduct which generally just ends up as a fine.

Considering that's where the AFL has gone with stomping on an opponent in the past.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Not sure I've seen Watson do that to anyone if you're trying to say it's valid retaliation

No, I’m saying he plays like a grub.

At nearly every contest that he competes in he exaggerates / initiates / stages for contact etc. in an attempt to draw free kicks.

In other words, he plays like a grub.

When this happens the game will continue to inch closer to that of soccer.
It takes a game that is difficult to officiate as it stands and makes it more difficult and confusing for those that are trying to do so.

The more confusing the game becomes the more frustrating for those the play it, officiate it & watch it. This frustration leads to action like you describe in your initial post.

Do you believe it to be coincidence that two players (Watson & Giinivan) that have this inherent in their games are the two that draw this response from fans & opposition players?

If you haven’t seen that, then we’re watching two different games.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

No, I’m saying he plays like a grub.

At nearly every contest that he competes in he exaggerates / initiates / stages for contact etc. in an attempt to draw free kicks.

In other words, he plays like a grub.

When this happens the game will continue to inch closer to that of soccer.
It takes a game that is difficult to officiate as it stands and makes it more difficult and confusing for those that are trying to do so.

The more confusing the game becomes the more frustrating for those the play it, officiate it & watch it. This frustration leads to action like you describe in your initial post.

Do you believe it to be coincidence that two players (Watson & Giinnivan) that have this inherent in their games are the two that draw this response from fans & opposition players?

If you haven’t seen that, then we’re watching two different games.

I believe that players like Watson and Ginnivan taunt the opposition constantly. I get that.
But unlike say, a Toby Greene who actually dishes out some nasty hits here and there - the two hawthorn shit stirrers are really just triggering players with anger issues.

When the response is so far in excess of the act - it's the guy dropping the elbow that should be blamed, not the guy who grabs a jumper and gets under his skin. It's not like Watson was lying on the ground pretending to be elbowed - so ducking for free kicks etc isn't that relevant here anyway

 

[Jim Prideaux]

I believe that players like Watson and Ginnivan taunt the opposition constantly. I get that.
But unlike say, a Toby Greene who actually dishes out some nasty hits here and there - the two hawthorn shit stirrers are really just triggering players with anger issues.

When the response is so far in excess of the act - it's the guy dropping the elbow that should be blamed, not the guy who grabs a jumper and gets under his skin. It's not like Watson was lying on the ground pretending to be elbowed - so ducking for free kicks etc isn't that relevant here anyway

So gut punching a completely different player then attacking Watson afterwards is all Watson fault?

 

[hardway]

Ugly incident! If players are being suspended 3 weeks for tackles. This action warrants a heavy penalty.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

How am elbow into the neck/jaw of a player is seen as “body contact” and not high by the MRO is just incompetence.

Shows how screwed our system is that this is a fine but tackles and accidents are a week+.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Just a fine.
Bit angry about this one. He punched Moore in the stomach and the elbowed Watson in the head while he was on the ground.

Just a fine.

Am I alone in thinking this is completely inadequate?

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Just a fine.
Bit angry about this one. He punched Moore in the stomach and the elbowed Watson in the head while he was on the ground.

Just a fine.

Am I alone in thinking this is completely inadequate?

You're alone in thinking that it's not media driven

 

[hawkman]

Crazy that Michalanney and Watson get the same punishment out of that incident

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

I believe that players like Watson and Ginnivan taunt the opposition constantly. I get that.
But unlike say, a Toby Greene who actually dishes out some nasty hits here and there - the two hawthorn shit stirrers are really just triggering players with anger issues.

When the response is so far in excess of the act - it's the guy dropping the elbow that should be blamed, not the guy who grabs a jumper and gets under his skin. It's not like Watson was lying on the ground pretending to be elbowed - so ducking for free kicks etc isn't that relevant here anyway

Don’t condone the action in this circumstance (Treatment that Watson received)
There appears to be a definitive correlation to the overall conduct of the players mentioned and response of the opposition.
It’s been happening before Ginnivan was a Hawks player.
Plenty of players get up the opposition, if you want to seperate this from the staging then so be it. From my perspective I don’t believe you can.
Play like a grub, get treated like one.
If you can’t draw the line then I believe you’re looking through rose coloured glasses

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Don’t condone the action in this circumstance (Treatment that Watson received)
There appears to be a definitive correlation to the overall conduct of the players mentioned and response of the opposition.
It’s been happening before Ginnivan was a Hawks player.
Plenty of players get up the opposition, if you want to seperate this from the staging then so be it. From my perspective I don’t believe you can.
Play like a grub, get treated like one.
If you can’t draw the line then I believe you’re looking through rose coloured glasses

I said in the opening post I'm biased here and am trying to see if I'm off the mark here.

But your approach of "play like a grub, get treated like one" sounds like you're okay with this. Well, firstly you say you don't condone the action here, but later you say you don't think the action can be considered separate to the 'grub' element.

Think you're playing both sides of the fence here

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Heeney got more for his accidental backhander than what Michaelanne got for punching one guy intentionally and elbowing another guy in the head.

 

[hardway]

Heeney got more for his accidental backhander than what Michaelanne got for punching one guy intentionally and elbowing another guy in the head.

The game is a mess from top to bottom. Hate to think what Sicily would’ve got for the exact same action.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

I said in the opening post I'm biased here and am trying to see if I'm off the mark here.

But your approach of "play like a grub, get treated like one" sounds like you're okay with this. Well, firstly you say you don't condone the action here, but later you say you don't think the action can be considered separate to the 'grub' element.

Think you're playing both sides of the fence here

I’m saying there’s proportionate responsibility for the actions of each party.
Nothing more nothing less.
Bias considered, response to one of the individuals (Ginnivan) was occurring before your personal bias could be considered.
Hence my reference to proportional responsibility,
My bias would lie in disliking players that consistently display exaggeration in contest to draw free kicks.
Both the individuals being discussed sit as outliers to their peers in this regard.
That cannot be disputed

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

I'm not at all surprised it wasn't looked at - nothing the AFL does surprises me anymore - but I also would have defended MRP if they came in with 3, or even 4 weeks. Possibly the worst thing I've seen a player do on field this year.

You have to factor in the 'modifications' - IMO he deserved 3+ for what he did - so after the MRP modifications a fine is probably fair.

No name player (+1), hits a Hawk (-1), on a Sunday (-1) twilight (-1) game, with no media commentary (-1).

Now, if the same incident was Sicily (+1), hitting a Pie/Blue/Swan/Cat (+1), on a Friday Night (+1), with media sensationalism (+1) - we'd be looking at Bid Bad Bustling Barry Hall v Staker round 2 type suspension.

 

[Purple Suit]

There’s footage of this incident at the end of “On the couch”. It doesn’t look as bad close up from the side angle. I think he gets pushed forward from the players behind rather than jumping on his face with his elbow and it’s over very quick.

The top down angle makes it look worse than it is imo.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

So going the ground and pound is a fine. Okey dokey.