Discussion Each clubs greatest player of all time

[Bobby_]

Dick Reynolds if Essendon went back over their history. Coleman is like Peter Hudson at Hawthorn, Hudson would've broken all the records had he not done his knee also. So you go one what happened over a career and three Brownlow's says a fair bit.

The Brownlow medal should not be the precursor to what is great and what is not though. I can appreciate where you are coming from.
Garry Hocking very nearly won a couple of Brownlow's had he not let his temper get the better of him in 93 & 95 but no one would argue he'd sit comfortably behind Ablett Snr when ranking them.

 

[Slax]

The Brownlow medal should not be the precursor to what is great and what is not though. I can appreciate where you are coming from.
Garry Hocking very nearly won a couple of Brownlow's had he not let his temper get the better of him in 93 & 95 but no one would argue he'd sit comfortably behind Ablett Snr when ranking them.

Maybe, but the rest of Reynolds stats speak for themselves and as good as Coleman was in his short career, Reyonlds still out does him as you need to take it over a career.

7 x B&F
4 x Premiership Captain-Coach
320 Games
3 Brownlow medals

For those still trying to say Coleman was better then was Peter Hudson better than Leigh Mathews? because basically it is the same argument because Hudson's average goals per game was higher than Coleman's

 

[Bobby_]

Maybe, but the rest of Reynolds stats speak for themselves and as good as Coleman was in his short career, Reyonlds still out does him as you need to take it over a career.

7 x B&F
4 x Premiership Captain-Coach
320 Games
3 Brownlow medals

For those still trying to say Coleman was better then was Peter Hudson better than Leigh Mathews? because basically it is the same argument because Hudson's average goals per game was higher than Coleman's

Coleman only played 98 games and already won his teams B&F, 2 x premierships (in which he booted 10 goals).
Peter Hudson couldn't even make it on the bench in the team of century as the AFL went with Coleman at full forward instead.

I'm not disputing Dick Reynolds as a preferred choice but your downplaying Coleman's career somewhat. Those who saw his career rate him above Ablett Senior and I'm guessing they say that because his game closely resembled Ablett's in terms of smaller size (185cm) but a tour de force with their marking prowess.

 

[Pavlovs Cat]

Pretty good choices. West Coast was really hard for me, the main reason I went for Matera was loyalty and obviously was no where near as controversial as Cousins was, that said however Cousins as a player is probably one of the better midfielders to ever play the game. If he hadn't have had such a negative impact on his club (despite the obvious premiership) he probably would have a spot in my list.

Matera was a good choice. Brilliant player who left poor old Toby in his wake in 1992. But Cousins was an absolute machine, assisted or not I'm not qualified to judge. One thing I remember about him was that he just ran and ran and ran until he was puking his guts out. During that horrible loss (for us a great day for Eagle kind) I recall that Judd was out (might be wrong as I have tried very hard to forget this game) and we spent all day long just smashing into him. He kept getting up and kept running and winning the ball. When we were all over them he was a willing warrior who just kept going and eventually after Moons went down the rest of the Eagles came with him. For me he's the best Eagle regardless of his unfortunate circumstances today.

 

[Pavlovs Cat]

I'd have Shaun Burgoyne instead of Wanganeen, agree with everything else - great list.

Interesting call this. I reckon Wanganeen played better football for Port than Burgoyne did. I think Burgoyne has taken his game to another level at Hawthorn because of the way his coach utilises his skills. Port supporters might be better qualified to support or refute my claim but they might have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to Burgoyne, they still boo him pretty hard all these years later.

 

[telsor]

Depends how you view 'greatest' I suppose.

Most influential to the club as a whole.. Jack Dyer.
Best on field, both skills and leadership. Royce Hart. In a great era for the club, he was considered to be clearly the best player at the club. It's probably not a coincidence that Richmond faded as injuries started to impact him more and more.

A few of you mentioned Bartlett...He was a very good player and played a lot of games, but didn't have the extra influence/leadership/whatever to be considered 'the greatest'.

 

[ljamest36]

Matera was a good choice. Brilliant player who left poor old Toby in his wake in 1992. But Cousins was an absolute machine, assisted or not I'm not qualified to judge. One thing I remember about him was that he just ran and ran and ran until he was puking his guts out. During that horrible loss (for us a great day for Eagle kind) I recall that Judd was out (might be wrong as I have tried very hard to forget this game) and we spent all day long just smashing into him. He kept getting up and kept running and winning the ball. When we were all over them he was a willing warrior who just kept going and eventually after Moons went down the rest of the Eagles came with him. For me he's the best Eagle regardless of his unfortunate circumstances today.

You're right, he was a champion player there is no taking that away from him.

 

[Bobby_]

Matera also changed up his game in later years. He spent a lot of time across half back flank and was quite brilliant there as well.
Both Cousins and he were instrumental in finals.

 

[footyfan1978]

Feel free to butt in and give your own opinion, you'd know your own club far better than I do.
Adelaide- Andrew Mcleod
Brisbane Lions and Bears-Micheal Voss

Cannot think any more deserving players of title.
Dareen Jarman was pretty good for Crows but a lot less game for them than McLeod.
Dangerfield best might even top both of them but McLeod is the more popular choice among Crow fans themselves as he was a one club player.

Carlton- Bruce Doull (not sure how popular that decision will be)

Have not seen a better defender in football. Was a truly amazing player. However I will still think Alex Jesaulenko the greatest player in our clubs history. His skills were amazing in his prime and came to the game late. I think only Gary Ablett Senior can rival him for allround skill in all the players or video footage I seen of footballers in history on film of game.

However Jezza over his career played midfield, forward and back. He was a champion in every area. Think he took best mark I ever seen on video against Richmond. (50 to 51 second mark above)
The goals I seen him kick on highlights from before my time on grainy black and white television look incredible for his balance and skill. Cyril Rioli of now has similar cat like balance on his feet. 10 goals in state match against South Australia on Adelaide Oval against other greats in their prime of Leigh Matthews, Gary Dempsey, Malcolm Blight, Phil Carman, Barrie Robran and company that spoken about as all time greats too highlights to me just how damn good he was. I wish I born a decade earlier to see it all myself. Still love seeing some of his freak goals in 1970 and 72 grand finals on grand final eve marathon shows. Those that went to games in his prime were lucky bastards.
I did actually see his last two years when he played as a captain-coach around age 32 to 34. Well past his best then but still took a bit of a speccy for St.Kilda in early 1980s at age 34.
John Nicholls must have been great but this guy looked the allround champion of skill and application.

Collingwood- Bob Rose
Essendon- Dick Reynolds
Fitzroy- Kevin Murray
Fremantle- Matthew Pavlich
Geelong- Gary Ablett Sr.
Gold Coast- Gary Ablett Jr.
GWS- Callan Ward
Hawthorn- Leigh Matthews
Melbourne- Ron Barassi Jr.
North Melbourne- Wayne Carey
Port Adelaide- Gavin Wanganeen
Richmond- Jack Dyer
St Kilda- Robert Harvey
South Melbourne/Sydney Swans- Bob Skilton
West Coast- Peter Matera
Western Bulldogs- Edward James "Ted" Whitten

Of the other clubs I reckon Scott Pendlebury best Collingwood player I seen in my time. Got no idea how good Bob Rose was. Better I guess for his name to be famous in their clubs history.

Essendon, Dick Reynolds. Yep.
Fitzroy. Gary Wilson was very special rover. Can only assume Kevin Murray must have been even better.
For mine though Haydn Bunton Snr sounds like he is numero uno for Fitzroy.

Geelong - GOD. Yep.
Gold Coast - Son of him. Yep
GWS - Dylan Shiel I think will surpass him for this first phase of their club history.
Hawks- Matthews - Yep.
Melbourne - Barassi the most famous name but hard to imagine he was better than Robert Flower. Flower was poetry and silky skill in one.
Either one of them very worthy I feel.
North- Carey, Blight or Keith Grieg. Take your pick.
Port - Wanganeen. Robbie Gray could catch him if 2 or 3 more seasons of elite standards achieved.
Richmond - Kevin Bartlett without question. One of best rovers, turned forward pockets to play the game.
St. Kilda - Winmar, Lockett and Harvey of more recent decades. Baldock and Stewart were apparently brilliant from 1960s and early 70's.
Lockett for mine. Best full forward I seen.
South/Swans - Laurie Nash, Bob Skilton, Paul Kelly or Adam Goodes
My guess is Skilton was an all time great rover of the game. Nash sadly never see any footage but if stories are true would not surprise he was better than Royce Hart and Carey as a key position player.
West Coast - Matera probably, Judd next. Take your pick really.
Bulldogs - Whitten or Doug Hawkins. The Bont will give it a fair shake by end of his career.

 

[Jukesy85]

Adelaide: McLeod
Brisbane: Black
Carlton: Kernahan (Nicholls, Bradley, SOS not far off)
Collingwood: Coventry
Dons: Reynolds (just ahead of Coleman, Hird, and Hutchison)
Fitzroy: Bunton or Murray
Freo: Pavlich
Geelong: Ablett Sr
GC: Ablett Jr
GWS: Ward (Coniglio and Shiel definitely with the potential to take his place soon)
Hawthorn: Matthews (just ahead of Dunstall and Hudson)
Melbourne: Barassi
North: Carey
Port: Tredrea
Richmond: KB
St Kilda: Lockett (but I really love the play of Nick Riewoldt, when he ends his career definitely in the discussion)
South Melbourne/Sydney: Skilton
West Coast: Judd or Cousins (hate the eagles but both of these guys were incredible players)
Footscray: Whitten

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Carlton - Jesaulenko
Collingwood - G.Coventry
Essendon - Dick Reynolds
Fitzroy - Bunton
Footscray - Whitten Snr
Geelong - Ablett Snr
Hawthorn - Matthews
Melbourne - Barassi
Nth Melbourne - Carey
Richmond - Dyer
St Kilda - Baldock
Swans - Pratt
West Coast - Peter Matera
Adelaide - Ricciuto
Fremantle - Pavlich
Port - Tredrea

 

[Wallaby]

Just a few observations from a neutral (I will exclude my own club).

Essendon - there's a lot you could write here, but I'm glad that Jukesy85 above seems to have mentioned the Big 4. Hutchison always seems to get forgotten, but his record is fantastic.
Bulldogs - I know everyone says Whitten, but Gary Dempsey would surely be close. Yes, he only played about 200 games for the Dogs vs Whitten's 320, but he was the best ruckman in the comp for almost his entire career. Once he became first ruck for Footscray (age 20), he won 6 out of 9 B&Fs (Whitten won 5 in his entire career). The 3 years Dempsey DIDN'T win, he was still Footscay's leading Brownlow vote-getter (admittedly he played in an era when ruckmen seemed to get a great proportion of Brownlow votes). Then he went to North, and won THEIR B&F in his first year, and continued to play well for 5 more years. If he had stayed at Footscray, I think he definitely would have been rated higher than Whitten.
Melbourne. - Check Ivor Warne-Smith's record.
Collingwood is probably the hardest - there are probably 5-6 in the frame, with good arguments for all.

I think a lot of clubs have a senior or father figure, who as well as being a great player has also become the 'emblem' of the club as the greatest personality. Whitten, Reynolds, Dyer, Barassi, Kevin Murray etc. However, they may not be the greatest pure footballer from the club (but they are usually in the argument).

 

[footyman13]

Just a few observations from a neutral (I will exclude my own club).

Essendon - there's a lot you could write here, but I'm glad that Jukesy85 above seems to have mentioned the Big 4. Hutchison always seems to get forgotten, but his record is fantastic.
Bulldogs - I know everyone says Whitten, but Gary Dempsey would surely be close. Yes, he only played about 200 games for the Dogs vs Whitten's 320, but he was the best ruckman in the comp for almost his entire career. Once he became first ruck for Footscray (age 20), he won 6 out of 9 B&Fs (Whitten won 5 in his entire career). The 3 years Dempsey DIDN'T win, he was still Footscay's leading Brownlow vote-getter (admittedly he played in an era when ruckmen seemed to get a great proportion of Brownlow votes). Then he went to North, and won THEIR B&F in his first year, and continued to play well for 5 more years. If he had stayed at Footscray, I think he definitely would have been rated higher than Whitten.
Melbourne. - Check Ivor Warne-Smith's record.
Collingwood is probably the hardest - there are probably 5-6 in the frame, with good arguments for all.

I think a lot of clubs have a senior or father figure, who as well as being a great player has also become the 'emblem' of the club as the greatest personality. Whitten, Reynolds, Dyer, Barassi, Kevin Murray etc. However, they may not be the greatest pure footballer from the club (but they are usually in the argument).

There's only ever been 12 clubs; ie. the 12 VFL teams. Here are their Best Ever:

Brian Kekovich - Carlton
Jason Croall - Collingwood
John Cassin - Essendon
Renato Serafini - Fitzroy
Ivan Rasmussen - Footscray
Spiro Malakellis - Geelong
Bohdan Jaworski - Hawthorn
Melbourne - Tom Flower
Gary Cowton - N. Melbourne
Bruce Tschirpig - Richmond
Stewart Gull - S. Melbourne
Mordecai Bromberg - St Kilda

 

[SgtSchulz]

Port would have to be either Ebert or Quinn.

If you ask Ebert he always says Bob Quinn.

 

[yyou]

Feel free to butt in and give your own opinion, you'd know your own club far better than I do.
Adelaide- Andrew Mcleod
Brisbane Lions and Bears-Micheal Voss
Carlton- Bruce Doull (not sure how popular that decision will be)
Collingwood- Bob Rose
Essendon- Dick Reynolds
Fitzroy- Kevin Murray
Fremantle- Matthew Pavlich
Geelong- Gary Ablett Sr.
Gold Coast- Gary Ablett Jr.
GWS- Callan Ward
Hawthorn- Leigh Matthews
Melbourne- Ron Barassi Jr.
North Melbourne- Wayne Carey
Port Adelaide- Gavin Wanganeen
Richmond- Jack Dyer
St Kilda- Robert Harvey
South Melbourne/Sydney Swans- Bob Skilton
West Coast- Peter Matera
Western Bulldogs- Edward James "Ted" Whitten

Simon Black for Brisbane
Alex Jesaulenko for Carlton
Chris Judd for west coast
Otherwise I agree

 

[The Blue Baggers]

There's only ever been 12 clubs; ie. the 12 VFL teams. Here are their Best Ever:

Brian Kekovich - Carlton
Jason Croall - Collingwood
John Cassin - Essendon
Renato Serafini - Fitzroy
Ivan Rasmussen - Footscray
Spiro Malakellis - Geelong
Bohdan Jaworski - Hawthorn
Melbourne - Tom Flower
Gary Cowton - N. Melbourne
Bruce Tschirpig - Richmond
Stewart Gull - S. Melbourne
Mordecai Bromberg - St Kilda

surely vinny catoggio for the blues !!

 

[Simon_Says]

I agree with most of your choices. My differents in bold.

love the inclusion of Ben Cousins, i don't know enough about the west Coast Football club, although i know that Matera and Mainwaring were also club greats. Cous or Judd for me, but i would Take Cousins

 

[Simon_Says]

norm smith as the greatest Melbounre player of all time?

 

[footyfan1978]

norm smith as the greatest Melbounre player of all time?

Robbie Flower....
before that probably Ronald Dale...

 

[footyman13]

surely vinny catoggio for the blues !!

Good one. Can't beat that Fro.

 

[Pedantic]

norm smith as the greatest Melbounre player of all time?

Greatest player, no. Although his playing record is sometimes overlooked due to his fantastic coaching achievements. I think he'd be a good answer for greatest "Melbourne person" though, involved in 10 of our 12 flags as either player or coach.

 

[windyhill]

From what Im told, Dick Reynolds, from what I've seen Simon Madden.

 

[A Rambling Mind]

Feel free to butt in and give your own opinion

What a list, great work.
Hard to argue against any of the nominees. I love Harvest but I would mount the case for Plugger as the greatest Saint.

 

[sydney eagle]

Fitzroy is a tough one Kevin Murray or Hayden Bunton Snr ?

 

[Len S]

Fitzroy is a tough one Kevin Murray or Hayden Bunton Snr ?

Bunton by many streets.All club historians will acknowledge this .Bill Stephen speaks of him in awe,as did my dad.The first of the ruck rovers,now midfielders, Bunton not only won 3 Brownlows, but 3 Sandovers,and had his career interrupted by the war.Also an outstanding swimmer and cricketer.