Updated Easey St Murders Collingwood * ARREST MADE

[Pure_Ownage]

I think if he was there likely he wasn’t alone.

Especially at his age.

 

[ms finch]

They've got the semen sample which they've presumably tested with modern techniques, and quite possibly other DNA evidence from the bodies and the general crime scene, given the murderer tried to clean it up.

He knew they had him when they asked for a DNA sample, he agreed, but then fled to Greece from where he couldn't be extradited.

Imo.

I hope they have other DNA. If they preserved things from the crime scene they should hopefully have been able to get other DNA with more modern techniques.

He could also explain his running due to being involved in the crime but not the actual murderer or just being guilty of the post mortem SA.

This is not, like I said, what I necessarily believe, but it's far from an open and shut case in court.

 

[Cataholic]

I hope they have other DNA. If they preserved things from the crime scene they should hopefully have been able to get other DNA with more modern techniques.

He could also explain his running due to being involved in the crime but not the actual murderer or just being guilty of the post mortem SA.

This is not, like I said, what I necessarily believe, but it's far from an open and shut case in court.

That's just sad, and would reflect poorly on our judicial system.

He should be thrown into a volcano for the postmortem SA for starters.

He knew one of the victims, was a known delinquent, was found with a bloodied knife, left a semen sample at the scene, fled overseas when asked for a DNA sample, but is somehow innocent?

Please.

 

[ms finch]

That's just sad, and would reflect poorly on our judicial system.

He should be thrown into a volcano for the postmortem SA for starters.

He knew one of the victims, was a known delinquent, was found with a bloodied knife, left a semen sample at the scene, fled overseas when asked for a DNA sample, but is somehow innocent?

Please.

The judicial system is set up to ensure protections for the innocent, which necessarily means that much of the process protects the accused and that there is a high standard of proof. It also means that there are circumstances in which a person who has committed the crime will not be found guilty because the evidence simply doesn't get over the necessary thresholds. There is a saying - better that ten guilty people go free than one innocent person be convicted. Not that the system always protects the innocent anyway.

All I'm saying is that there is a threshold problem with this evidence. He may well be convicted on it or they may well have more that ensures his conviction. But it's far from the strongest case I've seen.

 

[Cataholic]

The judicial system is set up to ensure protections for the innocent, which necessarily means that much of the process protects the accused and that there is a high standard of proof. It also means that there are circumstances in which a person who has committed the crime will not be found guilty because the evidence simply doesn't get over the necessary thresholds. There is a saying - better that ten guilty people go free than one innocent person be convicted. Not that the system always protects the innocent anyway.

All I'm saying is that there is a threshold problem with this evidence. He may well be convicted on it or they may well have more that ensures his conviction. But it's far from the strongest case I've seen.

Yes, there is that saying.

But I'd venture the excuses we create as a society are now seeing more like 15 guilty people go free than one innocent person.

Our judicial system, and social response, is so geared to finding reasons to mitigate the offence that the victims become secondary.

Imo.

 

[ms finch]

Yes, there is that saying.

But I'd venture the excuses we create as a society are now seeing more like 15 guilty people go free than one innocent person.

Our judicial system, and social response, is so geared to finding reasons to mitigate the offence that the victims become secondary.

Imo.

I personally fully support focusing on protection for innocent people. If you convict an innocent person you've destroyed the life of someone and done nothing to help the victims because the perpetrator has not faced any accountability. I don't think that, overall, we are much better at judging guilt or innocence than we have ever been. In major crimes, I think that we are catching and convicting more people because of the advances in forensic evidence, but that where we are lacking evidence we still get it wrong too often and far too many innocent people go to prison.

Mitigating factors are usually about reducing the charges or the sentence rather than actual guilt. For example, in the murder of Eurydice Dixon, the perpetrator was guilty and the defence tried to argue that his autism was justification for a reduced sentence. In that particular instance it wasn't accepted, but that's an example of it relating to the sentence rather than guilt. I agree we have gone way too far with our acceptance of mitigating factors.

 

[moncon]

I can imagine him and his mates doing a couple of lines of speed to get revved up before going out on a burglary spree. Speed was cheap and easy to get in those days.

 

[ms finch]

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday about this and he suggested PCP/Angel Dust as a potential drug that could have influenced the brutality of the murders. I didn't think it was around really in the 70s, but it turns out it was the opposite - it was big in the 70s and 80s.

PCP

Scientific Name:Phencyclidine or 1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)Other Common Names:Angel Dust, Peace Pill, Wack, Hog, Lovely, Ele

www.cmm.com.au

 

[GrayRanga]

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday about this and he suggested PCP/Angel Dust as a potential drug that could have influenced the brutality of the murders. I didn't think it was around really in the 70s, but it turns out it was the opposite - it was big in the 70s and 80s.

PCP

Scientific Name:Phencyclidine or 1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)Other Common Names:Angel Dust, Peace Pill, Wack, Hog, Lovely, Ele

www.cmm.com.au

There's no evidence supplied to date that the alleged suspect was under the influence of drugs, so where is this coming from?

The day of the murder was a typical Melbourne Summer's day, (I was sweltering in a hired woolen suit attending my sister's wedding). Windows and doors would have been open to the breeze and only fly wire screens (if fitted) offering the only a barrier to people entering a house

I'm going to suggest that if he was under the infuence if a disinhibiting drug of choice, he would have consumed more than a few beers to slate his thirst in a warm Saturday evening and him entering the house was a crime of opportunity

 

[ms finch]

There's no evidence supplied to date that the alleged suspect was under the influence of drugs, so where is this coming from?

The day of the murder was a typical Melbourne Summer's day, (I was sweltering in a hired woolen suit attending my sister's wedding). Windows and doors would have been open to the breeze and only fly wire screens (if fitted) offering the only a barrier to people entering a house

I'm going to suggest that if he was under the infuence if a disinhibiting drug of choice, he would have consumed more than a few beers to slate his thirst in a warm Saturday evening and him entering the house was a crime of opportunity

I posited a few days ago that one of the thoughts I had about this was that the perpetrator might have been under the influence of something given the frenzied, brutal nature of the crime and, if they have arrested the correct person, his age. I don't think it's really any different to any other theory posited about this case, given how little information we have about what might have happened. It is just a train of thought.

 

[Cataholic]

I personally fully support focusing on protection for innocent people. If you convict an innocent person you've destroyed the life of someone and done nothing to help the victims because the perpetrator has not faced any accountability. I don't think that, overall, we are much better at judging guilt or innocence than we have ever been. In major crimes, I think that we are catching and convicting more people because of the advances in forensic evidence, but that where we are lacking evidence we still get it wrong too often and far too many innocent people go to prison.

Mitigating factors are usually about reducing the charges or the sentence rather than actual guilt. For example, in the murder of Eurydice Dixon, the perpetrator was guilty and the defence tried to argue that his autism was justification for a reduced sentence. In that particular instance it wasn't accepted, but that's an example of it relating to the sentence rather than guilt. I agree we have gone way too far with our acceptance of mitigating factors.

I don't think the use of a drug / psychotic episode should be a defence.

If someone CHOOSES to bend their mind with the use of a drug they are then also responsible for their actions whilst under its influence.

Imo.

But I digress. The use of a drug or drugs is purely hypothetical at this point in this case.

It'll be interesting to learn how solid a case the police have against PK, and if its damning, how he tries to weasel out of it.

He's already tried fleeing his responsibility.

 

[ms finch]

I don't think the use of a drug / psychotic episode should be a defence.

If someone CHOOSES to bend their mind with the use of a drug they are then also responsible for their actions whilst under its influence.

Imo.

But I digress. The use of a drug or drugs is purely hypothetical at this point in this case.

It'll be interesting to learn how solid a case the police have against PK, and if its damning, how he tries to weasel out of it.

He's already tried fleeing his responsibility.

I've never said it was a defence to anything or even a mitigating factor, and nor have I seen a comment from anyone else that it would be a mitigating factor. It is a possible component of what happened is all, in the same way as it is possible there was more than one person, that they had a pre-existing relationship, that it was a burglary that escalated. Why do you keep harping on this point in response to me?

Most things being discussed in this case are hypothetical or theoretical. Most things discussed on this entire board are hypothetical or theoretical. It would be a very pointless forum if people were confined to only what was known 100%.

 

[Cataholic]

I've never said it was a defence to anything or even a mitigating factor, and nor have I seen a comment from anyone else that it would be a mitigating factor. It is a possible component of what happened is all, in the same way as it is possible there was more than one person, that they had a pre-existing relationship, that it was a burglary that escalated. Why do you keep harping on this point in response to me?

Most things being discussed in this case are hypothetical or theoretical. Most things discussed on this entire board are hypothetical or theoretical. It would be a very pointless forum if people were confined to only what was known 100%.

My apology.

My comments were intended as general conversation and expansion of my thoughts on that particular hypothesis, not as a direct argument to you personally.

I'll leave it here.

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday about this and he suggested PCP/Angel Dust as a potential drug that could have influenced the brutality of the murders. I didn't think it was around really in the 70s, but it turns out it was the opposite - it was big in the 70s and 80s.

PCP

Scientific Name:Phencyclidine or 1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)Other Common Names:Angel Dust, Peace Pill, Wack, Hog, Lovely, Ele

www.cmm.com.au

The murders were brutal yes, but he also got away with it for 50 years. If he had some sort of drug induced psychotic break, I don't really see how he returns home, free of blood, or anything like that, and does not arouse any suspicion. Unless his psychosis just magically ended the moment he had stopped brutally murdering two people. Doesn't really sit right. I think the rape charge also goes against drug induced psychotic break.

 

[RichmondVFA]

The psychosis/drug blackout part might explain the frenzy but is it possible to snap out of that and calmly wash up and leave without attracting too much attention.

Initially I was wondering whether DNA could be 100% pinpointed to an actual person. Could his defence muddy the waters and say it could have been another family member?

 

[RichmondVFA]

Try and muddy the waters that is. Some stuff I've read since thinking that seems to indicate that today's testing should be able to narrow down to exact family member.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

That's just sad, and would reflect poorly on our judicial system.

He should be thrown into a volcano for the postmortem SA for starters.

He knew one of the victims, was a known delinquent, was found with a bloodied knife, left a semen sample at the scene, fled overseas when asked for a DNA sample, but is somehow innocent?

Please.

At his age it's much more likely he was an accomplice and without knowing who the 2nd person is its almost impossible to know whether he actually killed them or just was an accessory.