Enough beating around the bush, do you want Norf to fold?

[royals1922]

Why? Because life is harsh mate and the harsh reality of the AFL is there are too many Victorian clubs - 10 clubs from one state in a national competition doesn't make sense, weather Victoria is footy's heartland or not.
It's a sad fact that sooner or later anywhere from one to five of the current Victorian teams will cease to exist in their present form. Weather they're bullied into merging, relocating or folding by the AFL or the Commission simply allows natural attrition (given the over-saturation of the Melbourne market) to take it's toll remains to be seen, but either way a number of clubs are for the chop and right now Norf seems to be the most vulnerable.

Who knows? Perhaps we may all be surprised and it'll be Melbourne, Bulldogs, St.Kilda, or even Hawthorn who goes first. Nothing's for certain.
It is however a rather unsavory fact that every Melbourne-based club which "dies" effectually makes my club's chances of surviving on it's own two feet somewhat stronger. Cull the weak to protect the strong, law of the jungle and all that. If Hawthorn's chance of survival becomes... oh I dunno let's say 10% more likely as a result of Norf "dying" then I'm sorry to say it's a transaction I would make in a heartbeat.

Ultimately I don't give a damn about your club, I only care about my own. You won't see many Bigfooty posters admit that, but I'll bet many of them feel exactly the same way. It's a dog-eat-dog world pal and only The Hawks matter to me. Maybe that's cruel but I'm just being honest.

Fair call from a Hawks supporter but I don't share your view. keep on punching Bosk.

 

[LETSGOKANGAS]

The Bulldogs have been poorly run, poorly supported and largely unsuccessful during their years in the VFL/AFL.
Despite that, I believe their long-term prospects are better than Norf's due to their strategy of drawing support from Melbourne's western suburbs (hence the name change) which is one of the highest population growth areas in the country I believe. If the Doggies get their shit together and the western suburbs get behind them, their future will be assured. If not... they'll wind up being one of the next clubs to go after Norf.

Right now I would say only Geelong, Collingwood & Essendon are assured of surviving on their own terms for the foreseeable future. Carlton, Richmond & Hawthorn also seem pretty secure for the present at least. St.Kilda, Bulldogs, Melbourne & Norf are the clubs that will be under the pump the soonest.

As I've said countless times, 10 Victorian teams is too many. 4 or 5 would be ideal but even 7 or 8 would relieve the pressure on the remaining clubs enormously.
Before you all commence jumping up and down and waving your spears in the air here's one more thing to consider - in an 18 team competition, statistics suggest your club has only a 1 in 18, or 5.5% chance of winning the premiership each year. Reduce that number however, and in a 10 team competition your chances of a flag rise to 10% each year, almost double. Fewer teams would also mean more star players at every club and a higher standard of play across the league.

Too much money to be made. It will never be a 10 team comp.

 

[bontshow]

Can I ask you a serious question? What are your views on the bulldogs? They have received more in "handouts" from the AFL, have about the same number of members as NM, and are (currently) worse on field.

I have never seen you once criticise them and am genuinely interested in why that is the case.

Despite that, I believe their long-term prospects are better than Norf's due to their strategy of drawing support from Melbourne's western suburbs (hence the name change) which is one of the highest population growth areas in the country I believe. If the Doggies get their shit together and the western suburbs get behind them, their future will be assured. If not... they'll wind up being one of the next clubs to go after Norf.

Nailed it.

North are doing very well in both Hobart & Ballarat, if either of those two places becomes a permanent fixture for you I think you'll be fine. Whilst Tassie wants their own side and Ballarat has no AFL ready stadium, you are at risk.

WB are like GC & GWS, strategic growth areas for the AFL, we just have an 87 year head start.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I don't want North to fold. I like North.

I do, however, want a few of their w***er supporters to be somehow transported to an alternate timeline where North are just about to fold.

 

[Northworth]

Do you Norf supporters ever tire of being victims?

"Why are you always picking on us?! What about the Bulldogs hey?! They're poor too you know! See! See how bad they are?!?! Look at their debt! Where's your thread on them hey?! Oh that's right, it's because we're the Kangaroos, poor us, the world is against us, wah wah wah..."

Thanks for your contribution
As said earlier, I was referencing a Bosk comment that he directed to griff - so I thought the comparison between NM-WB was relevant
I appreciate that you don't and also notice that you did not refute the fact that our clubs are similarly poised.

 

[Northworth]

The Bulldogs have been poorly run, poorly supported and largely unsuccessful during their years in the VFL/AFL.
Despite that, I believe their long-term prospects are better than Norf's due to their strategy of drawing support from Melbourne's western suburbs (hence the name change) which is one of the highest population growth areas in the country I believe. If the Doggies get their shit together and the western suburbs get behind them, their future will be assured. If not... they'll wind up being one of the next clubs to go after Norf.

Right now I would say only Geelong, Collingwood & Essendon are assured of surviving on their own terms for the foreseeable future. Carlton, Richmond & Hawthorn also seem pretty secure for the present at least. St.Kilda, Bulldogs, Melbourne & Norf are the clubs that will be under the pump the soonest.

As I've said countless times, 10 Victorian teams is too many. 4 or 5 would be ideal but even 7 or 8 would relieve the pressure on the remaining clubs enormously.
Before you all commence jumping up and down and waving your spears in the air here's one more thing to consider - in an 18 team competition, statistics suggest your club has only a 1 in 18, or 5.5% chance of winning the premiership each year. Reduce that number however, and in a 10 team competition your chances of a flag rise to 10% each year, almost double. Fewer teams would also mean more star players at every club and a higher standard of play across the league.

Respect your right to this view. Thanks for addressing the question
It is the most reasonable post I think I have seen you make on this topic.

 

[Northworth]

For what my view is worth
- relocating/folding a melbourne based club does not result in people shifting alliances (moving ten supporter bases into 7-8). I think that it results in people no longer following a side and contributing funds to the pie. People like wona are the exception, not the rule. I know plenty of souths/fitz people who no longer follow footy

- the AFL's record breaking media rights deal was based on the current number of teams and the league, which is a fair indication of what the free market thinks of the competition as a whole

- most major football codes have teams with disparate supporter bases. We can't all be collingwoods/manchesters

- the AFL was very much on the nose with the wider football community with what they did to Fitzroy and tried to orchestrate for melb-hawthorn.

I actually think the clubs immediately at risk are the two new ones that have incredibly low supporter bases and will not withstand any prolonged period of lack of success - if they do not make the most of their initial draft concessions. I acknowledge that the AFL will keep propping them up but at some point, I can see the presidents losing patience with GC/GWS/AFL (I know, I know - you will say they are losing patience with NM... but it is my view that eddie and co take particular exception to the newbies)

Failing all of that, then I certainly agree that the teams next at risk are clearly NM, Melb and WB...

Melbourne have (due to supporter generosity) got their #### together so are certainly safe (but for the tanking shenaningans) but I would not say the same about the roos or the dogs. Both clubs have slightly different strategies

Happy to accept the western front strategy is a sound one for the doggies - but it is interesting that the likes of bosk et al have nothing to say about their debt/reliance on hand-outs.

Meanwhile, I would choose to maintain that JB's strategy for the roos has been based on
- sorting out shareholder issue (which no previous admin was able to achieve)
- redeveloping arden st (again, no previous admin achieved)
- investing in footy dept... which is happening
- paying down debt - which a modest start has occurred and A LOT more needs to happen
- managing the ethihad mess by pursuing a secondary market for low drawing crowds.

Plus - our on-field side is on the verge of a success. If the views of bosk et al are right and the 2012 outcome was propped up by a soft draw and a finals berth is not on offer in 2013.. so be it... I am actually reasonably confident that a finals win is on offer next year. Overrating Norf TM!

Anyway
carry on

 

[Starburns_]

As I've said countless times, 10 Victorian teams is too many. 4 or 5 would be ideal but even 7 or 8 would relieve the pressure on the remaining clubs enormously.
Before you all commence jumping up and down and waving your spears in the air here's one more thing to consider - in an 18 team competition, statistics suggest your club has only a 1 in 18, or 5.5% chance of winning the premiership each year. Reduce that number however, and in a 10 team competition your chances of a flag rise to 10% each year, almost double. Fewer teams would also mean more star players at every club and a higher standard of play across the league.

I reckon the AFL could easily sustain up to 8 in Victoria, but the squeeze still hasn't quite got here, 10 can function in the short-term. It'll be interesting to see how the AFL handle this situation in the future though.

I do, however, want a few of their Moo supporters to be somehow transported to an alternate timeline where North are just about to fold.

Mario already comes from another timeline, there's no other explanation for his loose grip on reality.

 

[Seedsman_]

He is struggling to justify himself. Just let him keep wavering about like an idiot.

You've summed him up nicely.

calm down princess its the bay and from a carlton supporter describing a failed collingwood priemership team .. No need to be hurt over it. Just mindless banter. But still, you didnt win. Was a throw away line.

Geez you're doing it wrong. Mindless seems about right.

 

[Tazwegian]

Punter might be joining the North board. Maybe he will transition the move smoothly down to Tassie.

 

[Jean Claude Vas Deferens]

Absolutely not.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Yes they should fold, then we could take all their good players.
Hmmm, then again maybe they can stay. Don't want.

Coming from a flog that follows a team originating from a spud paddock, youve got some nerve. You stay in your own little world where you're chasing underage girls. I bet you wouldnt know the meaninf of club culture would you??

 

[ozzyoslo]

Not really. I'm a real football supporter, I'd hate to see any of the original founding clubs of the AFL killed.

I too dont want any club to fold but I won't stand for the dribble that oozes from the fingers of some flogs in here. Unfortunately the most is from the less than stronger positioned clubs Footscray, Melbourne, St Kilda and to a lesser extent Hawthorn.
We all know too well the Footscray has a huge job in front of themselves to get back to being respected on the football field again. There are just too many inexperienced players in their best 22 at the moment, very similar to where we were 3 yrs back. But I wouldnt begrudge them if they got back up in say 5 yrs time and give them full credit for doing it but they all know its alot of blood sweat tears and luck that gets them there if they do.
StKilda and Melbourne these 2 are in the same class.....basket cases where honestly I cant see why on heavens earth would anyone would want to follow them as theyre just perennial losers that implode and the drop of a hat.
Hawthorn learnt a valuable lesson that onfield success doesnt necessarily guarantee everlasting financial security when they found out in the 90's. It took a dictatorship of Kennett to right their ship, yeah sure kudos to the ol pratt and good luck to Hawthorn for putting up with him for so long til the ship was straightened.
To those wanting to pot us, your wasting your time we're one of the best value for your dollar teams going around, our spirit is alive and as strong as it will ever be. Save your focus for the AFL generated teams , the Crows,Eagles and now the Suns and West Sydney. Theyve had handouts from our clubs there in Victoria, without the support from those honest clubs working hard to stay liquid each season.
The purists of the game who want everything fair know too well its a long hard road back now where the TV dollar has wormed its way into the "norm" of the AFL. Its eating into the heart and soul of the competition where the teams with larger supporter base or those tipped to be a powerhouse success for the season get the better draws and the larger piece of the gate takings.
To be honest we shouldnt be potting each other, we should be potting the AFL.

 

[LETSGOKANGAS]

WB are like GC & GWS, strategic growth areas for the AFL, we just have an 87 year head start.

Which hasn't helped at all.

 

[Bosk]

To be honest we shouldnt be potting each other, we should be potting the AFL.

Agreed, only then we'd all be hanging shit on the same target every week and that would get old pretty quick.

I don't particularly like the way Vlad's pandered to the TV stations for cash but its clear he needs that dosh to finance the latest expansions into the QLD & NSW markets so that the league can make even more money from them down the track. The Commission's obviously been running the game purely as a business and not a sport for quite some time now, hence the sanitizing of the game to ensure the most marketable product possible.

As for me I would gladly go back to the "glory days" of 70s & 80s suburban Victorian footy in a heartbeat if the chance was there (please don't suggest I follow the VFL instead, its not the same thing and you know it) and in the context of the league of old having Norf around made perfect sense, nor would I want them to go anywhere. Unfortunately I don't see a place for Norf in the new shiny AFL of today, where seemingly history counts for nothing and its all about the $$ and nothing else.
That's unfortunate, but its reality and I'm not about to stick my head in the sand and pretend its not happening like many supporters of a certain club I could mention.

 

[Baldur]

Coming from a flog that follows a team originating from a spud paddock, youve got some nerve. You stay in your own little world where you're chasing underage girls. I bet you wouldnt know the meaninf of club culture would you??

You seem a little upset.

 

[Bosk]

I reckon the AFL could easily sustain up to 8 in Victoria, but the squeeze still hasn't quite got here, 10 can function in the short-term.

Only for as long as the TV revenue stays the same or keeps climbing, and I think we all know with the networks struggling as they are that won't be for much longer.

Unless of course you care to believe the bullshit about the AFL selling direct to the consumer via the NBN... is that the latest pipedream Norf fans are pinning their hopes on now?

Mario already comes from another timeline, there's no other explanation for his loose grip on reality.

Dude, Mario is from another ****ing planet. We should DNA test him because I swear that campaigner isn't human.

 

[Starburns_]

Save your focus for the AFL generated teams , the Crows,Eagles and now the Suns and West Sydney. Theyve had handouts from our clubs there in Victoria, without the support from those honest clubs working hard to stay liquid each season.

I hope you're trolling there because otherwise that is a monumentally stupid thing to say.

Only for as long as the TV revenue stays the same or keeps climbing, and I think we all know with the networks struggling as they are that won't be for much longer.

Unless of course you care to believe the bullshit about the AFL selling direct to the consumer via the NBN... is that the latest pipedream Norf fans are pinning their hopes on now?

True, but if Norf are lucky, there'll be one other rights deal after this one to get out from the bottom of the pile.

As for the NBN, I thought DOP was the only one talking about that as a foregone conclusion, surely he hasn't got the rest of them believing him?

Dude, Mario is from another ******* planet. We should DNA test him because I swear that silly isn't human.

Yeah, alternate reality fitted what was said, plus maybe there is an alternate reality where all his lunacy is actually genuine intellect.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Do you Norf supporters ever tire of being victims?

"Why are you always picking on us?! What about the Bulldogs hey?! They're poor too you know! See! See how bad they are?!?! Look at their debt! Where's your thread on them hey?! Oh that's right, it's because we're the Kangaroos, poor us, the world is against us, wah wah wah..."

There are some parallels between the two clubs, but the Dogs are perhaps less relevant to most football supporters to get mocking threads. Personally, I couldn't be less interested to start a "laugh at Bulldogs thread" however well deserved (it's easier to do a one line sig instead). Most North supporters are the same, on exposed evidence. On the other hand, there is a WB supporter who has started well over 50 threads attempting to criticise / mock North. We are obviously very relevant to the competition.

Of course, the parallels between the two clubs end where football really counts - grand finals and flags. For that reason, Footscray will always be way inferior to North.

 

[jacko57]

Agreed, only then we'd all be hanging shit on the same target every week and that would get old pretty quick.

Did you really just say that?????

 

[LuvtheKangas]

WB are like GC & GWS, strategic growth areas for the AFL, we just have an 87 year head start.

Didn't use it so well, do you?

 

[Leon]

There are some parallels between the two clubs, but the Dogs are perhaps less relevant to most football supporters to get mocking threads. Personally, I couldn't be less interested to start a "laugh at Bulldogs thread" however well deserved (it's easier to do a one line sig instead). Most North supporters are the same, on exposed evidence. On the other hand, there is a WB supporter who has started well over 50 threads attempting to criticise / mock North. We are obviously very relevant to the competition.

Of course, the parallels between the two clubs end where football really counts - grand finals and flags. For that reason, Footscray will always be way inferior to North.

Hahaha

You Norf fans are so laughable with your chips on your shoulders, victim complex and desperation for everyone to think you are a big and strong club.


"Wah wah, we are your rivals Essendon! You shut up with your arrogance and take notice of us!!!!!"

"Ha ha, we posted a profit this year! See! This means we are big and strong and will never incur financial difficulties again!"

"See how badly the Bulldogs everyone?! And you had the nerve to question our finances!!!"

"It's all Essendon's fault we are a small club with no supporters! They were big meanies to us in the 19th century and stole ALL our fans and ALL our players!! It's all Essendon's fault! They are scum! Wah! Wah!"

 

[Waynesworld]

Hahaha

You Norf fans are so laughable with your chips on your shoulders, victim complex and desperation for everyone to think you are a big and strong club.


"Wah wah, we are your rivals Essendon! You shut up with your arrogance and take notice of us!!!!!"

"Ha ha, we posted a profit this year! See! This means we are big and strong and will never incur financial difficulties again!"

"See how badly the Bulldogs everyone?! And you had the nerve to question our finances!!!"

"It's all Essendon's fault we are a small club with no supporters! They were big meanies to us in the 19th century and stole ALL our fans and ALL our players!! It's all Essendon's fault! They are scum! Wah! Wah!"

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Hahaha

You Norf fans are so laughable with your chips on your shoulders, victim complex and desperation for everyone to think you are a big and strong club.


"Wah wah, we are your rivals Essendon! You shut up with your arrogance and take notice of us!!!!!"

"Ha ha, we posted a profit this year! See! This means we are big and strong and will never incur financial difficulties again!"

"See how badly the Bulldogs everyone?! And you had the nerve to question our finances!!!"

"It's all Essendon's fault we are a small club with no supporters! They were big meanies to us in the 19th century and stole ALL our fans and ALL our players!! It's all Essendon's fault! They are scum! Wah! Wah!"

Cool meltdown, dude. Any chance of addressing the reality that I posted?

 

[bontshow]

Didn't use it so well, do you?

Not really.