Review Essendon 16.7.103 decimated Colliwobbles 5.9.39

[Jade]

Frost really is a bog average player isn't he?

 

[bomberman500]

I think the first one was even better. In the 2nd quarter, Frost takes off in defence and runs like 25 m without bouncing, but somehow the umpire doesn't call. Frost realises he's stuffed up and freaks out, then proceeds to kick it straight to Fletcher who is surrounded by Essendon players without a Collingwood player near him.

Frost (and Lambburger for that matter) remind me of Homer Simpson jumping the gorge
"I'm gonna make it! This is the greatest thrill of my life, I'm king of the world"
- Then proceed to butcher it

 

[BrunoV]

Frost really is a bog average player isn't he?

Where does this shit come from?

He's a 195cm, 22 year old 18 game veteran whose got some serious pace and shows an ability to intercept and beat a direct opponent (even if his means are questionable - he's getting away with it).

He'll likely be a 200 game key defender for the Pies. If he was a young key defender at Essendon I'd be thrilled.

 

[Essendonia]

Frost really is a bog average player isn't he?

I don't think he's ever got BOG...let alone most weeks!

 

[BrunoV]

View attachment 68129

Coach and 5 players on other lists while Collingwood has been in a three year holding pattern in which they've failed to take advantage of a list that should have created a premiership dynasty and have made questionable gains in terms of the evolution of their list (using the picks secured by trading out quality premiership players).

I never thought that I'd view Buckly as being good for football.

 

[Essendonia]

Where does this shit come from?

He's a 195cm, 22 year old 18 game veteran whose got some serious pace and shows an ability to intercept and beat a direct opponent (even if his means are questionable - he's getting away with it).

He'll likely be a 200 game key defender for the Pies. If he was a young key defender at Essendon I'd be thrilled.

Agree, there is a bit to work with. Obviously, work in progress.

 

[Jade]

Where does this shit come from?

He's a 195cm, 22 year old 18 game veteran whose got some serious pace and shows an ability to intercept and beat a direct opponent (even if his means are questionable - he's getting away with it).

He'll likely be a 200 game key defender for the Pies. If he was a young key defender at Essendon I'd be thrilled.

If he was a young defender at Essendon he wouldn't be getting a game.

At 22 years of age most decent defenders were well ahead of this kid. He was drafted late because he wasn't the equal of his peers.

So when I say he's bog average, I mean he's bog average.

Now, it's possible he can have some sudden spurt in performance and jump up several levels (it happens), but right now he's a 22 year old key defender of limited ability - a bog average player.

 

[BrunoV]

Yeah I suppose you're right Cale Hooker, Darren Glass, Matthew Scarlett, Dustin Fletcher, Luke McPharlin, Michael Johnson and Ted Richards, to name a few, were all dominating games at 22 with 18 games under their belts.

Frost is exactly where the clear majority of KPDs who end up being quality players were at the same age and/or with the same level of experience.

 

[Jade]

Yeah I suppose you're right Cale Hooker, Darren Glass, Matthew Scarlett, Dustin Fletcher, Luke McPharlin, Michael Johnson and Ted Richards, to name a few, were all dominating games at 22 with 18 games under their belts.

Frost is exactly where the clear majority of KPDs who end up being quality players were at the same age and/or with the same level of experience.

For a start most first class KPDs have been in the system for a few years by the time they hit 22. And they are there because they were identified early as talented players.

Hooker, Glass, Scarlett, Talia, Fletcher, McPharlin, Johnson, Mackenzie - all MILES better than Frost at 22.

Richards - probably not.

Pies will have to get lucky to get a top flight defender out of him because, at the risk of repeating myself, he's bog average.

Its kind of like the Carlton folk that keep telling me that their youth might develop into good players. Yeah sure, they might - but it'd be bloody lucky and nothing to do with solid recruiting.

 

[BrunoV]

Yes I get it. He ran too far without bouncing the ball he is a spud.

Don't try dressing it up into something it isn't. Or if you're going to do it stick to things you can remember or know something about so you can bluff.

There is no way any of those players I've mentioned are miles ahead. Lloyd, for example, has spoken about looking forward to playing on Scarlett in the early years. The best thing that could be said about Hooker, a forward, was that he was a long term project.

Saying that Frost is behind players because he hasn't been in the AFL system and then using it as some sort of guide to limit the potential for development totally ignores the careers of Hibberd, Crameri, Ambrose and Baguley being the players you should be most familiar with.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Frost really is a bog average player isn't he?

The sign of a really good player is taking a mark/getting a free kick in the defensive goalsquare and then handballing to a static team mate behind you because your footskills are that putrid.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

I mean, he's essentially a poor man's Tom McDonald.

 

[Jade]

Yes I get it. He ran too far without bouncing the ball he is a spud.

Don't try dressing it up into something it isn't. Or if you're going to do it stick to things you can remember or know something about so you can bluff.

Oh for Christ sake grow up.

Here, a post on the Pies board made BEFORE the game (you know, before he ran too far hur hur hur)

Absolutely despise Macaffer, no doubt.
Frost I don't have any animosity towards, but I certainly think he's a very limited player.

So yeah - clearly I was heavily influenced by a single decision on the weekend.

There is no way any of those players I've mentioned are miles ahead. Lloyd, for example, has spoken about looking forward to playing on Scarlett in the early years. The best thing that could be said about Hooker, a forward, was that he was a long term project.

Saying that Frost is behind players because he hasn't been in the AFL system and then using it as some sort of guide to limit the potential for development totally ignores the careers of Hibberd, Crameri, Ambrose and Baguley being the players you should be most familiar with.

Yes because that's what I did. Because I completely ignored that older players can go on to have good careers.

Now, it's possible he can have some sudden spurt in performance and jump up several levels (it happens), but right now he's a 22 year old key defender of limited ability - a bog average player.

Or if you're going to do it stick to things you can remember or know something about so you can bluff.

Don't ever ****ing tell me what I do, or do not know about.

 

[BrunoV]

I mean, he's essentially a poor man's Tom McDonald.

Isn't Tom McDonald bordering on elite if he's not already there?

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Isn't Tom McDonald bordering on elite if he's not already there?

He's an ok stopper, nothing spectacular. McDonald makes Talia look damaging, and Frost makes McDonald look damaging.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Isn't Tom McDonald bordering on elite if he's not already there?

By poor man's McDonald, I mean that he beats his man illegally as opposed to legally, and is a 0.5/10 when his team has the ball, as opposed to a 1/10.

 

[bomberman500]

Not that I rate Frost but I rate the matchup against Daniher about a 50/50 split. Derp had 10 touches, 6 marks and kicked 1.1
Frost had 13 touches, 6 marks but 10 uncontested touches... these days with all that chip kicking around the backline trying to see if the switch is on some backmens stats are always a little inflated.
I'd assume Frost also had 2/3 clangers but cant find that statistic

 

[BrunoV]

He's an ok stopper, nothing spectacular. McDonald makes Talia look damaging, and Frost makes McDonald look damaging.

So we're now downplaying one of the few KPDs with the ability to go with Franklin and Nick Riewoldt (something EFC is not even close to having)?

 

[Ben the Gooner]

So we're now downplaying one of the few KPDs with the ability to go with Franklin and Nick Riewoldt (something EFC is not even close to having)?

Not really, I rate McDonald reasonably highly with the caveat that he should never be allowed to touch the footy.

My point is that Frost has none of the (extremely limited) attacking prowess that McDonald has, but also fails to beat his man within the rules.

 

[BrunoV]

Not really, I rate McDonald reasonably highly with the caveat that he should never be allowed to touch the footy.

My point is that Frost has none of the (extremely limited) attacking prowess that McDonald has, but also fails to beat his man within the rules.

I know I don't need to tell you, or anyone else really, but the same criticism was leveled at Hooker until this year (with the improvement in disposal being made in 2013).

 

[Ben the Gooner]

I know I don't need to tell you, or anyone else really, but the same criticism was leveled at Hooker until this year (with the improvement in disposal being made in 2013).

That's fine, but as it stands, Frost is a poor man's version of the current McDonald. That's all I'm saying.

McDonald improving doesn't change that one way or the other.

 

[scottmclaren]

He has some pace and should have been called twice in the final quarter

 

[mike14]

I know I don't need to tell you, or anyone else really, but the same criticism was leveled at Hooker until this year (with the improvement in disposal being made in 2013).

until this year? I still have a heart attack every time Hooker disposes of the footy

 

[table tennis]

Whilst bookers disposal has improved, its his decision making that has been of most benefit.

Used to give the ball to the wrong players, try and make the impossible passes etc.

Now plays within his skill set. That has made him crucial to our team defence.

 

[Doss]

until this year? I still have a heart attack every time Hooker disposes of the footy

No need really. His disposal is pretty solid now because he works within his limitations.

And it's actually got better regardless.