Essendon 2000 has to be the greatest Team of all Time?

[Fadge]

Lions great dynasty, won when it mattered, but lost a lot across the 4 years they made grand finals, best big game team? Yep, most dominant, I'd say no.

No doubt Brisbane were a great team, but we're talking about teams that lost 2 of 44 consecutive games (Geelong), 3 of 40 games (Essendon), and 2 of 35 games (Collingwood).

 

[Sphynx]

Lions great dynasty, won when it mattered, but lost a lot across the 4 years they made grand finals, best big game team? Yep, most dominant, I'd say no.

Depends on your classification. The OP didn't delineate

Finals results count for a factor of x 10 vs meaningless H&A matches imo.


The Lions side is the most dominant of my lifetime, regardless of whether Geelong, Hawthorn or Essendon won a few extra matches during the regular season.

 

[Sphynx]

No doubt Brisbane were a great team, but we're talking about teams that lost 2 of 44 consecutive games (Geelong), 3 of 40 games (Essendon), and 2 of 35 games (Collingwood).

What did they all have in common that the Brisbane side didn't?

They couldn't get it done in the finals in back to back years, all splurted and faulted when the Brisbane side didn't.

I'd say it sets them apart from them, not the others ahead personally.

Brisbane resting players and losing a few H&A games means bugger all in the scheme of it. They were far more intimidating and dominant in finals than any other above, the fact they were an interstate team only made it greater, as sides had to travel to the GABBA prior to the GF.

 

[citizen-erased]

Depends on your classification. The OP didn't delineate

Finals results count for a factor of x 10 vs meaningless H&A matches imo.


The Lions side is the most dominant of my lifetime, regardless of whether Geelong, Hawthorn or Essendon won a few extra matches during the regular season.

If finals = 10x factor
Dons 2000 played the top 4 across 3 finals for +225pt differential
Lions 2001 played the same, but for +153

so 2000 EFC is 1530pts better than 2001 lions

 

[tigland]

that Essendon 2000 season was def one of the best. Only loss was by a kick and average winning margin was huge.

Also think the Carlton 95 team was one of the best i have seen as well. That season was extraordinary. If i remember the 2 loses were in back to back weeks early in the season and by massive margins. Outside of that they were untouchable that year.

 

[Boppo]

2000 Bombers changed the way footy looked.

 

[boncer34]

My goodness, what an entertaining read going on between you two.

Thanks

 

[Shane Heard]

If finals = 10x factor
Dons 2000 played the top 4 across 3 finals for +225pt differential
Lions 2001 played the same, but for +153

so 2000 EFC is 1530pts better than 2001 lions

And in that 1530 is a bucket load of snags from Lloydy, Hird, Scotty, Mercuri, Caracalla and the supreme goal sneak himself..Blumfield.

Every week our games would be over by mid 2nd qrt and the cascade of goals would rain down on our victims as they all completely gave up after halftime.

Because..we were just so very very freaking good.

It was Perfect football. Supreme team synchronicity with lashings of aggressive, bone crunching violence that rattled all that faced us.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

I forgot the Cats actually lost 3 times in 2011, not two. Regardless, it's not about if this team played that team Even then, The Bombers would probably still beat them. That's debatable but no reason as to why the Bombers wouldn't beat them.

They lost one game all year and that was by under a goal. Smashed every team in the finals and their percentage was out of this world.

If Geelong 2008 won the flag, which is the most important thing at the end of the day. Then they'd be in the discussion. But they're not. They didn't win. We belted them by over 80 points mind you. The Hawkers got them when it was big boy time. Didn't lose by all that much around round 17 or so either.

Collingwood 2011 was good but we lost 3 times to the Cats. Nope. Smashed in our last two games against Geelong.

Hawthorn 2013 - A great team just 3 losses all year. They deserve to be in the discussion, but still not on Essendon's level. In the finals The Catters and Dockers both pushed them. It would have been a tight game but the Dons shaded it. Still Essendon's season as a whole is clearly better.

 

[Shane Heard]

I forgot the Cats actually lost 3 times in 2011, not two. Regardless, it's not about if this team played that team Even then, The Bombers would probably still beat them. That's debatable but no reason as to why the Bombers wouldn't beat them.

They lost one game all year and that was by under a goal. Smashed every team in the finals and their percentage was out of this world.

If Geelong 2008 won the flag, which is the most important thing at the end of the day. Then they'd be in the discussion. But they're not. They didn't win. We belted them by over 80 points mind you. The Hawkers got them when it was big boy time. Didn't lose by all that much around round 17 or so either.

Collingwood 2011 was good but we lost 3 times to the Cats. Nope. Smashed in our last two games against Geelong.

Hawthorn 2013 - A great team just 3 losses all year. They deserve to be in the discussion, but still not on Essendon's level. In the finals The Catters and Dockers both pushed them. It would have been a tight game but the Dons shaded it. Still Essendon's season as a whole is clearly better.

I think people forget just how good Lloyd was that year as a 23 year old gun forward kicking 109 goals another 40 odd misses.

No defender could stop him.

He’s a key reason why that side, that year, were so good as they were all on a mission to rectify the f-up of the 99’ pre lim final

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

I think people forget just how good Lloyd was that year as a 23 year old gun forward kicking 109 goals another 40 odd misses.

No defender could stop him.

He’s a key reason why that side, that year, were so good as they were all on a mission to rectify the f-up of the 99’ pre lim final

Lloyd
Lucas
Hird

Not to mention Caracella. He snagged 35.17 for the year. Little goal sneak. Also

Lloyd 109.60
Lucas 57.42
Hird 36.18
Mercuri 32.19
Blumfield 27.20
Alessio 24.13
Moorcroft 23.9

That's some serious fire power. Even Dusty nailed 14 goals for the season. That's saying something.

 

[HairyO]

does the Hawks who were on Peds be discounted in there three peat? do the Blues in 95 get discounted because they were paying over the cap? do the Pies teams get discounted because they were doing illegal substances?

all hyperbole, all unproven, all universally agreed that happened but here we are..

95 Blues was absolutely proven.

Dons and dodgy circumventing caps was also known but I believe inside the rules at the time which is why they changed.

Zero evidence on Hawks and doping as a system but I have no doubt individuals were doping across all the clubs in the league.

Like when Warne recovered from an injury meant to have taken twice the recovery time but the pill was something his mum accidentally gave him just that one time.

Doesnt mean the entire team did it.

 

[Pinnell]

Kouta doesn't do his knee and Blues win the 2000 flag. They had no answer to him (see last q 99')

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Essendon 2000 are really hard to evaluate because, IMO, the league just got a heap weaker.

Carlton, for example, were an aging team that finished 6th the year before (and lucked into a grand final after getting belted in the first week of finals). Rolled out essentially the same team in 2000, and were clearly second best and miles ahead of the pack until Koutoufides injured his knee (and a bunch of other older guys hit the wall). That was an ordinary team, yet the only team in touching distance.

Melbourne ended up in the GF after going 14-8. They had a good year, but had been 14th the year before, and dropped to 11th the year after.

It was just a weird transition season in between two eras. North, Adelaide, the Bulldogs, even St Kilda had all been very good over the previous 4-5 years but were just coming to the end of their run. The next era of good teams: Brisbane, Port, Collingwood - were all a year or two away.

There's no doubt that Essendon team were exceptional, and would have been competitive, if not premiership favourites, in any season before or since. Their dominance was definitely a reflection of the state of the competition, though.

That's sort of fair enough, however Essendon should have won 1999 (and North in 1998) and through most of 2001 looked like winning but Brisbane picked up in the final third or so of the season and deserved it in the end.
I still regard Essendon 2000 as the best single year I've seen, who perhaps ended up down a flag or even two on what they could have had, but can seen the "transition period" argument even if not really agreeing. I think they had the makings of a Brisbane style era but sometimes as well as being good enough you have to be lucky enough - and good enough at exactly the right time.

 

[Shane Heard]

Lloyd
Lucas
Hird

Not to mention Caracella. He snagged 35.17 for the year. Little goal sneak. Also

Lloyd 109.60
Lucas 57.42
Hird 36.18
Mercuri 32.19
Blumfield 27.20
Alessio 24.13
Moorcroft 23.9

That's some serious fire power. Even Dusty nailed 14 goals for the season. That's saying something.

Yep ..around 450 shots at the sticks between them. That’s a lot of loose players having pings and set shots from marks.

 

[citizen-erased]

Lloyd
Lucas
Hird

Not to mention Caracella. He snagged 35.17 for the year. Little goal sneak. Also

Lloyd 109.60
Lucas 57.42
Hird 36.18
Mercuri 32.19
Blumfield 27.20
Alessio 24.13
Moorcroft 23.9

That's some serious fire power. Even Dusty nailed 14 goals for the season. That's saying something.

ah, what a time.....

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

ah, what a time.....

**** you've had some good success in the teams that you follow mate.


Championship calibre.

 

[citizen-erased]

* you've had some good success in the teams that you follow mate.


Championship calibre.

ive left Tottenham off there

Spurs and Dons keep me grounded in the world of sports

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

ive left Tottenham off there

Spurs and Dons keep me grounded in the world of sports

Haha.

Well you can't complain mate you guys have won many prems and I think The Spurs have had an ok time at it back in their day.

 

[citizen-erased]

Haha.

Well you can't complain mate you guys have won many prems and I think The Spurs have had an ok time at it back in their day.

ive only been on spurs for about 10-12 years.
i was a casual EPL viewer before then.

but can't complain with 90s thru 01 bombers plus Celtics, Milan and bayern in general

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

ive only been on spurs for about 10-12 years.
i was a casual EPL viewer before then.

but can't complain with 90s thru 01 bombers plus Celtics, Milan and bayern in general

Milan and Bayern mate that is like Batman and Robin.


Unbeatable.

 

[Oliver09]

Yep a very good team benefitting from a weak season competition wise.

Lions '01 were a much better team as the grand final proved. Also beat them in round 10 (if it bleeds) which kick started a 20 game winning streak.

So you should have beaten us that night. There were 10 players in the team that night that didn't play in the 2000 flag. Only one of those 10 players, Berwick, wasn't at the club due to retirement. We were hit really hard by injury in 01, players in and out all season but that understandably gets lost in the passage of time. We also had a bad run of injuries in 99, and 02 as well. Then of course the salary cap issues hit at the end of 02, something Brisbane didn't have to worry about with being allowed to spend an extra 10% on their playing group than Victorian clubs. 2000 was the only season we got a decent run at it and every team needs that to win a flag. You can do all the planning in the world but you need some luck.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Weak season nah. All this nonsense about it being a weak season is trying to take away Essendon's shine.

16-6 2nd placed Blues in 2000.

We topped the ladder last season finishing with a 17-5 record.

Back on topic The next best in 2000 teams had a 14-8 record. Well 2003 Port finished 18-4, We finished with 15-7, Brisbane 14-7-1, Sydney and Fremantle 14-8. What happened in that finals campaign? Port got belted again and The Lions beat us, again.

2002

Port 18-4
Brisbane 17-5
Adelaide 15-7
Collingwood 13-9

What happened? Who made the Grand Final? Brisbane and Collingwood. What happened to the 18-4 Port? Like the above. Adelaide 15-7, Gone.

Port topped the ladder again in 2004 and finally won it going 17-5. So whatever. The Blues went 16-6 in 2000 finishing 2nd and got walloped by The Bombers. If it's a weak season that year well we can go on and on finding all kinds of things.

Sydney had a 15-7 season in 2005 where Adelaide and The Eagles went 17-5 finishing 1st and 2nd, and who won? Records are very similar to that 2nd placed Carlton team.

2006

West Coast 17-5 top the ladder

The Blues team of 2000 were a very good side. Too much rubbish it about it being a weak season when in reality Essendon were head and shoulders above the rest and the rest of the comp weren't that different to any other year. And The Bombers took games off EVERYONE.

Geelong had a chance in 2008 but they couldn't handle the pressure. When it came down to a fight of life and death, Geelong simply couldn't handle Hawthorns punches nor could throw any significant one's to cause the Hawks any real damage.

Hawthorn pulverised them.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Cats 2008 were a great home and away team. One of the best ever there. But Premierships aren't won during the home and away season. Just ask West Coast 1991.

The Trophy cabinet called. They want their trophy back. But it was never theirs.

 

[faible]

So you should have beaten us that night. There were 10 players in the team that night that didn't play in the 2000 flag. Only one of those 10 players, Berwick, wasn't at the club due to retirement. We were hit really hard by injury in 01, players in and out all season but that understandably gets lost in the passage of time. We also had a bad run of injuries in 99, and 02 as well. Then of course the salary cap issues hit at the end of 02, something Brisbane didn't have to worry about with being allowed to spend an extra 10% on their playing group than Victorian clubs. 2000 was the only season we got a decent run at it and every team needs that to win a flag. You can do all the planning in the world but you need some luck.

From memory Hird was playing injured in 2001 GF (a quick google says he tore his groin in the Prelim), which definitely wasn't a help. People have largely forgotten just how good he was.

2003 he came back from that serious face injury and finished 3 votes off the Brownlow medal from 6 (5 to Buckley) less games.

Bloke could seriously play.