Essendon has now recieved the interim ASADA Investigation Report

[Dangerous54]

Presuming ess players took a banned substance, some will be playing VFL. Does the VFL have the right to ban any players? I'm thinking that by the letter of the rules they could, but in reality are unlikely to be out of sync with AFL.

 

[Chameleon75]

Armstrong never tested positive, although Usada had people testify against him.

Yet Ian Thorpe did, but that was insufficient evidence for asada.

Don't know why people continue to put faith in these organisations when there's no integrity with anti doping.

 

[GreatBradScott]

I did, got Ford forums, but it was only posted this afternoon.

Mine says posted 1 day ago, post was within the last 24 hours on BF.

 

[jenny61_99]

Mine says posted 1 day ago, post was within the last 24 hours on BF.

Yes but when you look at the post - and yes, I signed up for the bloody ford forum to see it - it said it was posted this afternoon.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Yes but when you look at the post - and yes, I signed up for the bloody ford forum to see it - it said it was posted this afternoon.

that thread seems to run reverse chronologically too which is weird, might affect the google link time stamp

 

[hoianbulldog]

Actually he did. They re-tested old samples; there were also the suppressed positive results early on

Ok, didn't realise he'd been picked up on back tests.

 

[60sbomber]

could be.

The post is pretty convincing but it could also be part of the PR machine to keep bomber fans happy for the next couple of weeks.
As it is pretty open ended in regards to how the AFL will deal with them

Especially the part where they said the club was prepared to pay a fine of up to 3M but no more. I mean.... doesn't that mean they have accepted some guilt.
And, if guilty. what kind of a administration would keep the man accountable for the program keep their job after a $3 million dollar fine for infractions in relation to the program?

Nah, you're missing the point. The story that is being floated is that the big issue has been the invoicing of EFC for illegal substances, and their presence on EFC premises, eventhough they may not have been given to the players.

That is, Dank getting stuff for his private practice on the club account. This is potentially what triggered the whole thing, and EFC might not have been able to say much, as it would amount to accusing Dank of criminal behavior.
It fits with the initial announcement by EFC in February ("shock" etc at what was going on, uncertainty as to what exactly had been given to the players). Also, fits with Dank trying to claim he gave Hird hexarelin (to try to explain why he bought it on EFC account and yet didn't give it to players).

The acceptance of a $3m fine would be an admission that the governance was bad.

By the way, there were a few "iffy" things about the insider's post. He said a few things that were unlikely to be contained in an ASADA report, for mine.

 

[jenny61_99]

Nah, you're missing the point. The story that is being floated is that the big issue has been the invoicing of EFC for illegal substances, and their presence on EFC premises, eventhough they may not have been given to the players.

That is, Dank getting stuff for his private practice on the club account. This is potentially what triggered the whole thing, and EFC might not have been able to say much, as it would amount to accusing Dank of criminal behavior.
It fits with the initial announcement by EFC in February ("shock" etc at what was going on, uncertainty as to what exactly had been given to the players). Also, fits with Dank trying to claim he gave Hird hexarelin (to try to explain why he bought it on EFC account and yet didn't give it to players).

The acceptance of a $3m fine would be an admission that the governance was bad.

By the way, there were a few "iffy" things about the insider's post. He said a few things that were unlikely to be contained in an ASADA report, for mine.

How do you explain the pharmacological experimental culture of the club at that time? Something isn't adding up.

 

[interestedoz1]

Does anyone find it frustrating that after being told to wait for the report, the report finally is released and we STILL don't have any idea what is in it?

Is this not a tax payer funded report? How about even a brief summary?

 

[LanceRomance]

How do you explain the pharmacological experimental culture of the club at that time? Something isn't adding up.

this point is often glossed over

 

[hugorune]

could be.

The post is pretty convincing but it could also be part of the PR machine to keep bomber fans happy for the next couple of weeks.
As it is pretty open ended in regards to how the AFL will deal with them

Why? There's no upside to building up bomber fans' hopes than dashing them when a highly punitive sanction (as yet not telegraphed) is imposed. It's possible that it's mischief making of some sort, but you'd like to have more faith in human nature than that.

I think we're not far away off from the end, though, something that most Bomber fans will be happy about, notwithstanding any sanctions on the club, assuming that they are not excessive and out of proportion to our offences.

 

[LanceRomance]

Why? There's no upside to building up bomber fans' hopes than dashing them when a highly punitive sanction (as yet not telegraphed) is imposed. It's possible that it's mischief making of some sort, but you'd like to have more faith in human nature than that.

I think we're not far away off from the end, though, something that most Bomber fans will be happy about, notwithstanding any sanctions on the club, assuming that they are not excessive and out of proportion to our offences.

They have been doing it for the last 6 months.

 

[hoianbulldog]

An finding of Insufficient evidence would lead me to one of two conclusions.

1. ASADA cocked up and EFC have threatened to go ballistic in court if players are sanctioned. Insufficient evidence is an out for everyone.

2. Actually I don't have a second.

I can live with the all clear from asada, but they would need to back it up by clarifying many points.

Insufficient evidence stinks to high heaven.

 

[The_Wookie]

As the governing body ASADA's job is to provide authoritative consistent advice. They absolutely can not just tell one person one thing and another person something else. They must be clear and consistent.

The police can't say the law is one thing to one person, the opposite to someone else and then arrest one of them for breaking it.

They 'clarified' their advice on April 22. There is no record of them clarifying or modify their stance at any other time. They can not change their advice secretly, if anything changes they must take all reasonable steps to inform everyone of a change.

They advised one thing prior to April 22 and pretty much the opposite after.

Actually, WADA issued the statement on April 22 - specifically stating it had been banned since 2011. ASADA did not clarify their advice on April 22nd at all.

 

[GreatBradScott]

An finding of Insufficient evidence would lead me to one of two conclusions.

1. ASADA cocked up and EFC have threatened to go ballistic in court if players are sanctioned. Insufficient evidence is an out for everyone.

2. Actually I don't have a second.

I can live with the all clear from asada, but they would need to back it up by clarifying many points.

Insufficient evidence stinks to high heaven.

This. Can live with it, but would just like a very detailed explanation why.

 

[hugorune]

They have been doing it for the last 6 months.

Yes, but you're implying that the club knew that a punitive penalty would be handed down, and have been deceiving the supporters in an attempt to delay the worst of the reaction as long as possible. That doesn't match up with the picture that many others see. As far as the club are concerned, they have not cheated, they have instead been highly negligent and careless with regards to their oversight of individuals who were previously at the club. Many people choose to take them on good faith with that, as would seem reasonable to do. You're choosing otherwise, and casting aspersions on the integrity of a reputable professional club and many senior individuals at it. That's not surprising given that you are a supporter of a club that has a deep and bitter rivalry with Essendon, but time will tell whether your judgement is correct. As with mine, I suppose.

 

[Keys]

Why are people suddenly nervous and giving these rumoured penalties credibility?

It's basically what EFC supporters have been saying for months, and the whole time we've been told its delusional.

Is it no longer delusional?

The concern I have is it appears possible that essendon will get away with giving their players a banned substance(s) as part of a club sanctioned program with no more than a fine albeit a possibly substantial one

 

[LanceRomance]

Yes, but you're implying that the club knew that a punitive penalty would be handed down, and have been deceiving the supporters in an attempt to delay the worst of the reaction as long as possible. That doesn't match up with the picture that many others see. As far as the club are concerned, they have not cheated, they have instead been highly negligent and careless with regards to their oversight of individuals who were previously at the club. Many people choose to take them on good faith with that, as would seem reasonable to do. You're choosing otherwise, and casting aspersions on the integrity of a reputable professional club and many senior individuals at it. That's not surprising given that you are a supporter of a club that has a deep and bitter rivalry with Essendon, but time will tell whether your judgement is correct. As with mine, I suppose.

I haven't cast aspersions.

I have been highly suspicious.

In particular the rapid diversification into exotic supplements, sharp increase in frequency of injections, the shift to treatment offsite in alternative medicine clinics, emergence of unfamiliar suppliers, marginalization of traditional medical staff etc combine to create a disturbing picture of a pharmacologically experimental environment never adequately controlled or challenged or documented within the Club in the period under review.

 

[weevil]

Actually, WADA issued the statement on April 22 - specifically stating it had been banned since 2011. ASADA did not clarify their advice on April 22nd at all.

WADA clarified the situation regarding ASADA's pre April 22 advice.

 

[jhndos]

hexaralin?

There's never even been a suggestion they took it. But you go right ahead

There's also the sujestion "we dont know what was administered"

 

[Jimthegreat]

If true EFC have handled this very well, I don't think there is any doubt the players unwittingly took AOD and perhaps other substances but the 'clear us or go to court' mentality after Evans went down is paying off in spades..

A real court of law is only interested in justice and is highly unlikely to ban players as cheats when they were duped by biochemists that won't even be held accountable for their part in the whole mess

Unfortunately it'll be the CAS as any appeal will have to go through thee. A "real" court, as you put it, won't hear it when sport has it's own court. We know how hard line they are.

Players won't get suspended by ASADA/AFL anyway as they were duped. We'd all be happy with that.

Problem is if WADA appeals that decision in the CAS.

 

[hugorune]

The concern I have is it appears possible that essendon will get away with giving their players a banned substance(s) as part of a club sanctioned program with no more than a fine albeit a possibly substantial one

I think there are three key issues: who has the authority to determine whether it is banned, who has the responsibility to check, and with whom. It appears that there's been confusion and/or lack of clarity, and that's the root cause of this entire scandal, and why apportioning blame is a challenging affair.

 

[60sbomber]

people will understandably be very upset if the essendon source is correct

pretty much will mean RIP AFL integrity

No, not quite.

People will be upset all right. There will a few Essendon supporters asking questions of all those who jumped the gun and condemned Hird, based on Wilson's spiteful crusade against him.

RIP AFL integrity, my #@!*.
It is the integrity all the posters on these HT threads that will be called into question. I hope they have the guts to face the music and admit they were not only wrong, but they behaved like a lynch mob.
There will some serious scraping of egg off the face.

 

[jenny61_99]

Looks like Rines either IS Fogdog, or was supplying FogDog information over the last two months, or was using Fogdogs Twitter account over the last two months.

 

[60sbomber]

people will understandably be very upset if the essendon source is correct

pretty much will mean RIP AFL integrity

No, not quite.

People will be upset all right. There will a few Essendon supporters asking questions of all those who jumped the gun and condemned Hird, based on Wilson's spiteful crusade against him.

RIP AFL integrity, my #@!*.
It is the integrity all the posters on these HT threads that will be called into question. I hope they have the guts to face the music and admit they were not only wrong, but they behaved like a lynch mob.
There will some serious scraping of egg off the face.