Everyone agrees Carey is the best forward of the last 10 years... but...

[bomberbilly]

According to alot of posters on here I thought Brown from brisbane was the best. Not only now but possibly the best player ever, yet I didnt see his name on the stats sheet posted.?

i dont think hes been consistent enough for even a whole season. His best is still to come id say. Injury free I think he will be scary. hes not the best over the last 10 years.

 

[Johnson#26]

AAARRRRRRGHGHHHGHGHGHHG CAN AT LEAST ONE OF YOU BASTARDS READ THE f'ING OP!!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I still count Plugger. He scored tons in 1996 and 1998.

 

[Andrew Mc]

With all due respect, that was Eddie McGuire, you can hardly blame Plugger for that one.

I was going to mention that - Plugger was ahead of the times in his summation of Eddie.

 

[Syd]

Most Goals (1993-2005)
                       Goals    Games  Ave                              Goals    Games  Ave
Matthew Lloyd	ES	754	209	3.61	Barry Hall	SK/SY	417	179	2.33
Saverio Rocca	CW/KA	699	238	2.94	Fraser Gehrig	WC/SK	410	213	1.92
Matthew Rich	RI	645	216	2.99	Warren Tredrea	PA	409	179	2.28
Wayne Carey	KA/AD	615	212	2.90	Chris Grant	WB	403	253	1.59
[COLOR="Red"][B]Tony Lockett	SK/SY	571	118	4.84[/B][/COLOR]	Stewart Loewe	SK	402	181	2.22
Tony Modra	AD/FR	567	157	3.61	Phillip Matera	WC	389	179	2.17
David Neitz	ME	534	265	2.02	Jeff Farmer	ME/FR	386	199	1.94
Alastair Lynch	FI/BL	528	206	2.56	Paul Hudson	H/W/R   377	193	1.95
[COLOR="red"][B]Jason Dunstall	HW	467	101	4.62[/B][/COLOR]	Michael OLoug	SY	374	222	1.68
[COLOR="red"][B]Gary Ablett	GE	444	81	5.48[/B][/COLOR]	Peter Everitt	SK/HW	362	238	1.52

Heres a Top 20.

Only Lloyd, Rocca, Richardson, Neitz, Hall, Gehrig, Tredrea, Grant, Farmer, O'loughlin and Everitt are still playing.

Nice averages from the "old timers".

Counting on 4-5 goals week in, week out surely has the Lockett\Dunstall\Ablett trio on top still.

Totals don't make for an accurate comparison given the differing lengths of time played over that decade.

 

[crazy_big_al]

Tredders

 

[mbaset]

well lloyd kicked 60 goals playing in a bottom 4 team and on top of that a broken arm, dont give me that bull******** about him not scoring goals if he had played with richmond. there is also a 4 year difference between richo and lloyd.

 

[Horj]

well lloyd kicked 60 goals playing in a bottom 4 team and on top of that a broken arm, dont give me that bull******** about him not scoring goals if he had played with richmond. there is also a 4 year difference between richo and lloyd.

Lloyd also has a positive uplifting effect on his team mate hence the captaincy a great player isnt all goals and marks, they are team players who no matter what will give their best and seek to inspire their team mates through their example. Richo throws the towel in, screams at his team mates and just generally destroys his team mentally. I know who id prefer at the Power

 

[Cyclops]

Cyclops, given our discussions not long re the abilities of Mick Martyn, is it not a fair indication of his standing that he took on and beat pretty much every bloke in this thread at one time or another, most more than once?

No.

Honestly I'm not stirring or trolling, but I always thought the fella wasn't any great shakes. Pagan fashioned him into a useful vessel but he was still just a mud man. I'm thinking of Kevin Walsh and shuddering at the same time.

You saw more of him and know better, but to my limited view he was an ordinary fella.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Still kicked 6 that day though and probaly performed better than Carey on that day as well!

did he win the game... did he swing it the Swans way... this is what I have been told he did numerous times... surely he did in the biggest game of his career???

 

[Rooboy 96]

where the f**k have you been for the last 15 years??? In the stands my friend leading the way with the team song after each of our triumphs and and consoling my fellow fans @ our tragerdies.

Glory to the might St's!

so you count home and away wins as triumphs???

I call that "easily pleased"...

 

[thehoff]

Most Goals (1993-2005)
                       Goals    Games  Ave                              Goals    Games  Ave
Matthew Lloyd	ES	754	209	3.61	Barry Hall	SK/SY	417	179	2.33
Saverio Rocca	CW/KA	699	238	2.94	Fraser Gehrig	WC/SK	410	213	1.92
Matthew Rich	RI	645	216	2.99	Warren Tredrea	PA	409	179	2.28
Wayne Carey	KA/AD	615	212	2.90	Chris Grant	WB	403	253	1.59
Tony Lockett	SK/SY	571	118	4.84	Stewart Loewe	SK	402	181	2.22
Tony Modra	AD/FR	567	157	3.61	Phillip Matera	WC	389	179	2.17
David Neitz	ME	534	265	2.02	Jeff Farmer	ME/FR	386	199	1.94
Alastair Lynch	FI/BL	528	206	2.56	Paul Hudson	H/W/R   377	193	1.95
Jason Dunstall	HW	467	101	4.62	Michael OLoug	SY	374	222	1.68
Gary Ablett	GE	444	81	[B]5.48[/B]	Peter Everitt	SK/HW	362	238	1.52

Only Lloyd, Rocca, Richardson, Neitz, Hall, Gehrig, Tredrea, Grant, Farmer, O'loughlin and Everitt are still playing.

Just MORE eveidence to suggest Gary Ablett was the Greatest forward to ever play that game. Look at his average when playing at Fullforward. No-one (even the great Tony Locket) comes close!

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEABLETT!
Heres a Top 20.

 

[rick James]

Lloyd also has a positive uplifting effect on his team mate hence the captaincy a great player isnt all goals and marks, they are team players who no matter what will give their best and seek to inspire their team mates through their example. Richo throws the towel in, screams at his team mates and just generally destroys his team mentally. I know who id prefer at the Power

Richo is one of the least egotistical players I reckon you'll find from what I observe. The bloke pretty much bleeds for his club, and he had many many oppurtunities to pick the team he played for and named his price. He's always stuck with his club out of loyalty imo. Lloyd DOES appear to be a good team player though, I wouldn't say inspiring though.

 

[MarkT]

did he win the game... did he swing it the Swans way... this is what I have been told he did numerous times... surely he did in the biggest game of his career???

Like Carey? C’mon, how’s Carey’s GF record? He could have won the game in the first half in 1998. Carey played a couple of blinders in prelims against Geelong. Up to then his finals record was so poor a North mate of mine used to call him Glendenning. For a player of his standing and apart from those 2 games his finals record was pedestrian.

You laud the career of Carey based on his H&A games but dismiss the bloke who kicked more goals than any player that ever lived?

 

[Horj]

Richo is one of the least egotistical players I reckon you'll find from what I observe. The bloke pretty much bleeds for his club, and he had many many oppurtunities to pick the team he played for and named his price. He's always stuck with his club out of loyalty imo. Lloyd DOES appear to be a good team player though, I wouldn't say inspiring though.

I have no doubt that he lives for his club. Unfortunately i cant seem to forget the image of screaming at his midfield then turning his back on them and sulking in the goal square only to then miss a goal from 10 meters out then proceeding to vent his frustrations on the midfield again. He is a good player but is no better than lloyd. Where Lloyd has it over richo is mentally

 

[Bloods]

did he win the game... did he swing it the Swans way... this is what I have been told he did numerous times... surely he did in the biggest game of his career???

He got us off to a flyer. The bloke was on one leg and still managed to kick 6. Not a bad performance as far as I'm concerned. I can't remember Carey 'swinging' too many Grand Finals either.

 

[War Nerve]

did he win the game... did he swing it the Swans way... this is what I have been told he did numerous times... surely he did in the biggest game of his career???

I never said he did?

But he did get us off to a flyer but i guess that amounts to nothing cause it didn't change the result.

There's no doubt in my mind if lockett played in 3 gf's like carey he would've won a norm smith medal.

 

[franjon]

Stats are important but the main thing is the way a player can swing a loosing performance into an outsanding comeback.

Lockett can do that Carey cant.

Locketts an enforcer Carey dances around the hard issues.

Lockett leads Carey follows.

Long live St Kilda.

You are a ********ER

 

[Rooboy 96]

Like Carey? C’mon, how’s Carey’s GF record? He could have won the game in the first half in 1998. Carey played a couple of blinders in prelims against Geelong. Up to then his finals record was so poor a North mate of mine used to call him Glendenning. For a player of his standing and apart from those 2 games his finals record was pedestrian.

You laud the career of Carey based on his H&A games but dismiss the bloke who kicked more goals than any player that ever lived?

I was merely responding to these statements...

Stats are important but the main thing is the way a player can swing a loosing performance into an outsanding comeback.

Lockett can do that Carey cant.

Locketts an enforcer Carey dances around the hard issues.

Lockett leads Carey follows.

Long live St Kilda.

Did I at anytime say Carey played a great match turning game in the 1996 Grand Final and Lockett was a w@nker??? NO... what Carey did do was play four solid quarters more then a lot of players on both teams did that day... if anyone was the match turner it was either...

King for his sliding tackle...
Freeborn's 2nd quarter goals...
or McKernan's lift in the ruck after quarter time...

so by not questioning the statements above should I take it you agree that Carey could not swing a game ???
Carey danced around the hard issues (WTF that means) ???
Carey could not Lead ???

 

[Rooboy 96]

He got us off to a flyer. The bloke was on one leg and still managed to kick 6. Not a bad performance as far as I'm concerned. I can't remember Carey 'swinging' too many Grand Finals either.

the one we won... there was no need for him to swing them... you are just bitter that we got him for $15000 from you guys... cry to someone that cares...

 

[Z_K]

Up to then his finals record was so poor a North mate of mine used to call him Glendenning. For a player of his standing and apart from those 2 games his finals record was pedestrian.

94 V Hawthorn.

BOG. 32 touches from CHF V Langford. 10 Marks, 4 goals.

94 V Geelong:

BOG. 24 touches. Kicked a lazy 6.

95 V Richmond:

BOG. Won the game in a 5 minute burst. 22 touches. Kicked 5.


3 from 3 BOG's in all finals played.

We have done this before, and I could go on. And I will.



95 V WC:

Average.

96 V Carlton:

Average.


96 V Geelong:

BOG or damn close. 22 touches, 10 marks. Kicked 3.

96 V Brissie:

BOG. 24 touches. 14 Marks. Kicked 3.

96 GF:

23 touches. 9 Marks. Terrible apparently


97 V Geelong:

BOG, with half a shoudler. Kicked a lazy 7 in the wet. 10 marks.

97 V WC:

16 touches. Kicked 2.


98 V Essendon:

BOG. 24 touches. Kicked 5. 8 Marks.

98 V Melbourne:

Average. 14 touches. 7 marks.

98 GF:

18 touches. Poor.


99 V Port:

BOG. 24 touches, 11 Marks and kicked 6.

99 V Brisbane:

Standard. 17 Touches, kicked 3.

99 GF:

Standard. 17, kicked 3.


2000:

V Essendon. He couldn't run. Sh1thouse game.

V Hawthorn: 18, kicked 3.

V Melbourne. Ordinary. Kicked 3.


No-one performed better in finals in the 90's. He was BOG 8 times, and excellent in most. He had a few crap games, one of which a GF in which we should have won and he was beaten by an average footballer.

 

[MarkT]

so by not questioning the statements above should I take it you agree that Carey could not swing a game ???

Rooboy, why would you draw that conclusion? Carey was an all time great. His finals were a step below that at least and given you used this as a criticism of Locket I posted what I posted.

Just to annoy you though I’ll tell you something else for free:

Carey in finals = Ebert in the VFL.





Northbhoy I exaggerate at times, I’ll admit that. Nevertheless you can throw stats around and award your own BOG’s all you like but Carey, as one the great impact players of the modern era, did not impact many finals and particularly grand finals like a player of his calibre should have. Eg, he got 17 in 1999 you say but he played quite a bit in the middle IIRC. I’ve never said he was no good just not the player he was outside of the finals he played. He wasn’t anywhere near an 8 time finals BOG and he would have played 20odd finals.

This goes back to what I always say about North and their record under Pagan. As a long suffering Collingwood supporter I would have killed for 2 flags in the 90’s but armed with Carey, Archer, Stevens, Martyn (you rate him way higher than I do), McKernan, Schwass and others 2 flags was a poor return. Had Carey made the impact in finals he made in H&A matches that return would have been greater. Maybe it was Carey, maybe it was Pagans game plan and it’s reliance on Carey or maybe it was bad luck at the wrong time (the great Collingwood excuse!). The bottom line is North’s return was average in the circumstances and it only got to average by a virtual steal in 1999. As I said, I wish we were that average but it’s relative.

Carey is an all time great but not one of those players who rose to the finals occasion by and large. Hawthorn had a few and consequently won 5 flags in Brereton’s time at the club.

 

[dan.wg]

I'd say Carey isnt the best forward. Lockett has the goal kicking record and has won games off his boot. He must be the best forward ever. Ablett would come second for me because of his extreme flamboyance and talent. He could turn a game in an instant and was a very exciting player.

Whilst Carey had the technique, strength and goal kicking ability of a great forward. He did not have this mercurial talent that left everyone in awe.

Daniel

 

[Crow-mo]

says a carlton supporter...

are you saying that you think Lloyd is a better footballer than Kernaghan?

 

[Snuka]

Forget the stats for a second you guys...from watching footy in the last ten years, Carey, Ablett and Lockett have been the best forwards IMO. A lot of you blokes seem to base a lot of stats but I really just judge on what I have seen and these blokes were the greatest and we haven't seen any forwards like them since, although i'm sure they'll come along. Now, I'm not being a footy elitest, since i've only been watching it since the late 80's anyway, but it seems a lot of you forget just how good these guys were (Ablett really was GOD!). Even though they only played for half the decade. If you love the stats so much, just look at the averages, none of the others have got close since.

The post was about who's better than Carey in the last 10 years, but it really should've been who's better than Carey, Ablett and Lockett in the last 10 years because I'm assuming that was the idea, unless the real agenda was that Carey was better than these blokes (which I hope it wasn't).

In that case, Richo has a big claim on being the classiest, and Lloyd, just because of his prolific goal-kicking ability is close (and if the rest of the side played their part he could of helped himself to a few more flags). As far as influence on the competition (by that I mean taking a side to premierships while he has the right players around him, which Carey did) i'd say Lynch and Tredrea.

 

[bloodsports]

Not everyone agrees that Carey is the best forward of the last 10 years.