Fall and Fall of Big Bash

[big_e]

I don't think the talent pool is deep enough to add another team. The standard of cricket is already pretty questionable with some of the grade cricketers and "international stars" on display.

The submission is largely about improving cricket in the ACT - they say they punch above their weight already (10% of contracted players are from the ACT, apparently), but it makes it harder for Canberrans to make cricket their focus when facilities are so poor, and so they either leave the Territory or give up. Having equal membership status brings in more money for that purpose. And having BBL and first-class teams in the ACT will further drive the sport in the territory, which brings more players into the pool. It's basically the same argument as was used for Tasmania's entry into the AFL.

There are enough players out there. Take Matt Kelly for instance - takes two wickets in last year's final, and then doesn't play at all this season. Another team gives more opportunities to new players coming through the ranks - AJ Tye had been rolling around grade cricket for years, and within two years of playing his first game for the Thunder, he's playing for Australia.

It's hard to find any metric to justify an argument about "the standard of cricket", but it's worth noting that there's a window for the test players to play BBL for the next two seasons, which will improve the talent pool.

 

[akkaps]

It's hard to find any metric to justify an argument about "the standard of cricket", but it's worth noting that there's a window for the test players to play BBL for the next two seasons, which will improve the talent pool.

There needs to be some standard to the cricket. The more BBL teams you add the more shit the league it’s going to be.
And you already have already have situation where players are leaving this competition early to play in other comps

The Comets can take the renegades.

 

[happy_eagle]

One way of analysing the depth of talent would be to identify the worst 2 players in each lineup. This would give you an idea of the bottom 10% talent wise in the BBL. Then consider whether or not the competition can handle that threshold going lower than it already is.

Perth - Hobson , Eskinasi
Adelaide - T.Kelly , Nielsen
Brisbane - J.Brown , Bryant
Hobart - Jewell , Owen
Sixers - D.Hughes , J.Davies
Thunder - Gray, Hatcher
Stars - Handscomb, Rogers
Renegades - Wells, F.O'Neill

 

[Teen Wolf]

No need to even up the number of sides. Nine teams means eight games - four home and four away. Does away with a lot of the fixturing issues we currently have with teams playing three teams twice. And, if my maths is correct. it's the same number of regular season games.

That's four less regular season games, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but one less Melbourne and Sydney derby would be a deal breaker for CA.

I don't see a realistic way of adding teams without increasing the number of games and/or retaining uneven fixtures.

 

[big_e]

One way of analysing the depth of talent would be to identify the worst 2 players in each lineup. This would give you an idea of the bottom 10% talent wise in the BBL. Then consider whether or not the competition can handle that threshold going lower than it already is.

Perth - Hobson , Eskinasi
Adelaide - T.Kelly , Nielsen
Brisbane - J.Brown , Bryant
Hobart - Jewell , Owen
Sixers - D.Hughes , J.Davies
Thunder - Gray, Hatcher
Stars - Handscomb, Rogers
Renegades - Wells, F.O'Neill

That's a very short-term way of thinking about it, though. It's more about thinking five to ten years ahead, even twenty - what does the player pool like like then?

That's four less regular season games, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but one less Melbourne and Sydney derby would be a deal breaker for CA.

I don't see a realistic way of adding teams without increasing the number of games and/or retaining uneven fixtures.

Good point re derbies, didn't think of that.

 

[big_e]

There needs to be some standard to the cricket. The more BBL teams you add the more s**t the league it’s going to be.
And you already have already have situation where players are leaving this competition early to play in other comps

The Comets can take the renegades.

As Teen Wolf pointed out, Melbourne and Sydney derbies are a key part of the BBL, so to move one of those teams would be a net negative on the competition.

And in the long term, more teams means more professional cricket contracts for Australian kids, which means more kids wanting to pursue the sport rather than football (or anything else, but mainly football). Which will improve the overall standard in the long run.

Players leaving for other comps is a very minor detail in the grand scheme of things.

 

[akkaps]

As Teen Wolf pointed out, Melbourne and Sydney derbies are a key part of the BBL, so to move one of those teams would be a net negative on the competition.

And in the long term, more teams means more professional cricket contracts for Australian kids, which means more kids wanting to pursue the sport rather than football (or anything else, but mainly football). Which will improve the overall standard in the long run.

Players leaving for other comps is a very minor detail in the grand scheme of things.

I understand TW’s point. And it makes sense. Not too keen on having two Melbourne sides

The players leaving point is actually a big issue, because it reduces quality of the league. It’s been happening for years and CA have done nothing about it. The BBL has had n number of years to make Australia the key destination over the and you already have players leaving for other leagues mid way through. I haven’t seen players leave the Hundred, or the CPL, or ILT20 or the PSL or even the BPL to player in a different countries T20 league.

 

[happy_eagle]

I understand TW’s point. And it makes sense. Not too keen on having two Melbourne sides

The players leaving point is actually a big issue, because it reduces quality of the league. It’s been happening for years and CA have done nothing about it. The BBL has had n number of years to make Australia the key destination over the and you already have players leaving for other leagues mid way through. I haven’t seen players leave the Hundred, or the CPL, or ILT20 or the PSL or even the BPL to player in a different countries T20 league.

Do any of these have other leagues with fixture clashes ?

 

[big_e]

I understand TW’s point. And it makes sense. Not too keen on having two Melbourne sides

The players leaving point is actually a big issue, because it reduces quality of the league. It’s been happening for years and CA have done nothing about it. The BBL has had n number of years to make Australia the key destination over the and you already have players leaving for other leagues mid way through. I haven’t seen players leave the Hundred, or the CPL, or ILT20 or the PSL or even the BPL to player in a different countries T20 league.

There are plenty of potential options, which would make the problem be reduced.

1. Change the dates
2. Have direct recruiting instead of the draft - several BBL/ILT20 players have said in recent weeks that the reason they left early was because they had their ILT20 contract first, not due to $$$.
3. Pay more for playing the full season.
4. Recruit different players.


Incidentally, the draft was one way CA tried to alleviate the problem. Even though it didn't work, it's not correct to say they did nothing.

 

[akkaps]

Do any of these have other leagues with fixture clashes ?

Yes. The BBL, SA20, ILT20, and BPL all clash with each other, with the PSL starting before the end of the BPL and the ILT20. Also last year, the end of The Hundred overlapped with the start of the CPL.

There are plenty of potential options, which would make the problem be reduced.

1. Change the dates
2. Have direct recruiting instead of the draft - several BBL/ILT20 players have said in recent weeks that the reason they left early was because they had their ILT20 contract first, not due to $$$.
3. Pay more for playing the full season.
4. Recruit different players.


Incidentally, the draft was one way CA tried to alleviate the problem. Even though it didn't work, it's not correct to say they did nothing.

Then why don't you promote these ideas around the board more?

A suggest would be to do what the IPL do with their auction selections. For this season, there were over 1000 players than signed up. However then cut that down to 300 prior to the start of the auction. Maybe the BBL can cut down their list of 300+ players to around 40 potential players.

 

[sydney_gws]

I understand TW’s point. And it makes sense. Not too keen on having two Melbourne sides

The players leaving point is actually a big issue, because it reduces quality of the league. It’s been happening for years and CA have done nothing about it. The BBL has had n number of years to make Australia the key destination over the and you already have players leaving for other leagues mid way through. I haven’t seen players leave the Hundred, or the CPL, or ILT20 or the PSL or even the BPL to player in a different countries T20 league.

IL20 is a problem. A 10 year TV deal.
I think they have 1 local player a team, so they will tend to get the best England ,West Indies players for a while.
I don't know what answer is?
If go to 9 teams, could they have 4 overseas players?
It is hard to move away from 8 teams and the derbies in Sydney, Melbourne.

I think better pitches are needed in some cases, but would like to see boundaries a bit bigger so it is not easy to hit a six as it is on some grounds.
The rope is a long way in sometimes.

 

[JackOutback]

What’s the obsession with Melbourne and Sydney derbies? Not even the highest drawing games of the year. Scorchers and Strikers often draw bigger crowds.

 

[nobbyiscool]

What’s the obsession with Melbourne and Sydney derbies? Not even the highest drawing games of the year. Scorchers and Strikers often draw bigger crowds.

CA will spend the rest of its existence chasing that 85k that they had at the G for one of the pre-COVID derbies.

This whole thread about "the fall and fall" of the BBL retains life because we're an AFL forum, and the Melbourne teams are perennially shithouse.

It will continue to have life for as long as we have 2 Melbourne teams who are both garbage, because much as it might be fun for the local markets to see the Heat, Scorchers and Strikers be relatively successful, we actually need the "big market teams" to be successful. The competition isn't a success while we have the same smaller market teams (+ the 6ers) making finals every year.

 

[Teen Wolf]

What’s the obsession with Melbourne and Sydney derbies? Not even the highest drawing games of the year. Scorchers and Strikers often draw bigger crowds.

Depends on which derbies. The Scorchers have never had a H&A crowd bigger than the average MCG derby attendance.

Regardless, the TV and streaming figures for the four derbies dwarf all other fixtures, which is obviously the most important thing.

 

[010203]

I'm struggling to give a rats about who ends up winning this summer's BBL carnival. The BBL is a Mickey Mouse 'comp' and it's not just because many overseas players ship off before the finals. I'm prepared to acknowledge that the shorter season has revitalised the BBL but 8 teams playing 10 games is a farce.

 

[The 747]

What’s the obsession with Melbourne and Sydney derbies? Not even the highest drawing games of the year. Scorchers and Strikers often draw bigger crowds.

Potentially much bigger in Melbourne at least if they can sort these Vic teams out. Sydney biggest viewing market.

Like or not WA and SA are not that important to broadcasters, which is where the money is.

 

[akkaps]

Explosion of T20 leagues amid packed cricket calendar challenges BBL resurgence | Jack Snape and Josh Nicholas

Australia’s Big Bash League has seen a rise in average crowds but the threat of more lucrative short-form competitions looms large

www.theguardian.com

 

[The 747]

Explosion of T20 leagues amid packed cricket calendar challenges BBL resurgence | Jack Snape and Josh Nicholas

Australia’s Big Bash League has seen a rise in average crowds but the threat of more lucrative short-form competitions looms large

www.theguardian.com

I'm not so convinced that international stars are all that important TBH. Obviously big stars ie international players would attract some interest but playing Aussie young cricketers instead of not international standard 'stars' probably would attract interest as well if they promoted it.

 

[big_e]

I'm not so convinced that international stars are all that important TBH. Obviously big stars ie international players would attract some interest but playing Aussie young cricketers instead of not international standard 'stars' probably would attract interest as well if they promoted it.

Yeah. The article mentions Colin Munro, Sam Billings, James Vince, Harry Brook and Liam Livingstone. 99% of Australians would have no idea who any of them are.

 

[happy_eagle]

Yeah. The article mentions Colin Munro, Sam Billings, James Vince, Harry Brook and Liam Livingstone. 99% of Australians would have no idea who any of them are.

Ironically Liam Livingstone started off as a bit of a no name English import for the Scorchers, and it was his Big Bash performances that got him into the England side and IPL to the point where he is now a high profile recruit.

 

[JackOutback]

Yeah. The article mentions Colin Munro, Sam Billings, James Vince, Harry Brook and Liam Livingstone. 99% of Australians would have no idea who any of them are.

I think even casual fans know most of them. Harry Brook was part of the recent Ashes contest that gripped fans, Vince, Munro and Livingstone are proven BBL players over a period of time. Billings the least recognisable.

 

[largebus]

The point is getting the Steve Smiths and Mitch Marshes, which have much more name recognition with the average punter, playing in it more often is more important than whether internationals stay for finals or not.

 

[happy_eagle]

I think even casual fans know most of them. Harry Brook was part of the recent Ashes contest that gripped fans, Vince, Munro and Livingstone are proven BBL players over a period of time. Billings the least recognisable.

It also seems that outside of India, there aren't too many global cricket stars these days. Gone are the days of the box office West Indies stars like Gayle, Pollard, Russell, Bravo that would draw kids into games to watch.

Which current international players have that level of stardom to them. Ben Stokes maybe ? Closest we had this BBL was Quinton De Kock and he didn't have much of an impact.

 

[The 747]

Yeah. The article mentions Colin Munro, Sam Billings, James Vince, Harry Brook and Liam Livingstone. 99% of Australians would have no idea who any of them are.

Harry Brook is a star. The rest are not, they are just taking up a spot that could be used to develop Australian cricketers.

 

[big_e]

I think even casual fans know most of them. Harry Brook was part of the recent Ashes contest that gripped fans, Vince, Munro and Livingstone are proven BBL players over a period of time. Billings the least recognisable.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm comfortable with the quality of internationals. All those guys are good players but whereas my wife knows who Steve Smith is, she'd have no idea who any of those guys are - even though she's been to games where some of them have played.

This bit in the article is a nonsense, IMO:

One player agent, who requested anonymity, says the BBL simply can’t pay enough to attract the kind of international talent that would then drive higher international broadcast revenues.

“It’s a third-rate tournament for international players and the best of them will never come – and the broadcast fees will remain poor – unless and until we pay enough to justify those players travelling to Australia for over a month of ‘match play’ at a time of the year they’d prefer to either rest or get paid more to play,” the agent says.

Sure, there are good T20 players who don't come but IMO, the competition is doing just fine without them.