Rumour Farran Ray, Matthew Bate

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josh the gent

josh the gent

The Pieman
Veteran Pieman Winner
Sep 25, 2008
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AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Day Two of trade week, Windles whispers...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/saints-field-offers-for-gram/story-fn69a32t-1226163554972

Two players mentioned with the Bulldogs are apparently

  • Farren Ray - we all know the history, our number 4 pick overall in 2003, then traded to St Kilda at the end of 2008 (for a third round to second round pick upgrade - which we used on Jordan Roughead). He is twice the player now that he was when he left us, however out of contract at St Kilda and they have big salary cap issues already so would probably come pretty cheap...
  • Matthew Bate - Melbourne's pick 13 in 2004. 192cm lead-up forward fanta pants, who has 90 goals in 90 games. 2009 was his best year, kicking 27 goals in 20 games, but form fell away last year, and fell out of favour altogether in 2011. Totally out of favour at Melbourne, and would cost very little.
Depending on the cost, I am for both deals. Both players have 6+ years of footy left in their tanks, and both would offer quite a bit to our current structures, while costing very little I would think.

Estimated costs:

Farren Ray - probably would cost our second round pick (which is 36 in a fairly shallow draft).
Matthew Bate - probably cost our 4th round to be totally honest. Might even be able to swap him for Hill, you never know...

What do you all think?
 
Ray is not twice the player, he is exactly the same average player that has played a role in a structure, is also on too much coin hence why Saints keen to offload him to reduce salary cap.

Bate is VFL player as has the turning circle of a road train, not what is required for a leadup AFL forward nowadays with not being able to add any pressure, stick with Grant for this role.

No to both.
 

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Both of these players have suspect disposal by foot and we know Ray has dodgy disposal under pressure.

I understand opportunistic trades - if we can pick them up very, very cheap.

But I think Id rather take a punt on a mature age VFL player with good disposal who could benefit from becoming a professional athlete rather than take a professional athlete such as these guys who have poor disposal and pretty much always will.

There is the possibility that Ray could be developed as a run-with midfielder, and we could try to turn Picken into an all-rounder rather than a hard tag. I generally dont like hard tags in the team, because you are 'a man down' offensively in the midfield, and when the matchup doesnt work, it REALLY doesnt work.

However Ray as a 'defensive minded' inside midfielder could work.
 
Griffs_Revenge said:
Bate is VFL player as has the turning circle of a road train, not what is required for a leadup AFL forward nowadays with not being able to add any pressure, stick with Grant for this role.
Click to expand...
Don't think Bate will come to bulldogs, he isn't a true forward and if we upgrade Panos, Bate will never get a game
I wouldn't mind having Ray back at bulldogs, think we could use him as a midfielder- half back
 
Also - No and No

We have traded for older players a bit over the past few years (rightly so we were a genuine Premiership chance) , now I'm more for list development from drafting.
 
Nope, nada, nien to both.

We dont need another Farren Ray type player as we already have an abundance of them in the mix.. Why add more mid sized running players when we clearly need a few KPP's

As for Bate, from what Ive seen he isnt all that impressive. We need to develop the youth we have, and aim for 2 or 3 KPPs.
 
the saints would take the dogs 2nd pick for ray without a doubt...not sure the dogs would offer that though...more likely an upgrade or 3rd pick...
 
I don't think we could have Bate and Barlow on the same list. Ok to have one of them as depth players but would rather use that list spot on a speculative player. No problem with Ray coming back only if cheap
 
Is the saints person we would have to deal with the bloke from Hawthorn? If it is reading what others have said about this gentleman we would not be getting Ray for a bargain price.
 

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cooee bulldogs said:
Is the saints person we would have to deal with the bloke from Hawthorn? If it is reading what others have said about this gentleman we would not be getting Ray for a bargain price.
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Chris Pelchen. Given he offered picks 37 and 66 for Josh Hill last year, I don't think he always drives such a hard bargain!!

BTW, rumour has it that the Saints are 500k over the salary cap for next year, unless they make trades now, so they don't really have much of a bargaining position. Ray could even go for free potentially...
 
If we can get Ray cheap enough without having to give to much away I say yes. He's shown he can play a role and thats what every club needs including ours. That said I'm happy for Dalrymple to chance his arm in the draft.... We don't need Bates!!
 
WT?
Ray - is NOT twice the player, same player, just older/wiser. NO
Bate - only if super cheap, seemed to always play well against us. MAYBE.
 
Ray has shown he can follow instructions and is alot tougher now. I'm not against it.

I always thought Bate was a decent player, can take a mark and kick a goal, obviously something wasn't right with him this year.

If they are cheap then ok
 
kookadog said:
Ray has shown he can follow instructions and is alot tougher now. I'm not against it.

I always thought Bate was a decent player, can take a mark and kick a goal, obviously something wasn't right with him this year.

If they are cheap then ok
Click to expand...

Ray has a high salary at the Saints, probably not worth the money he would demand.

Not adverse to getting Bate cheap as depth, trade the late Hudson pick from the Lions back to Melbourne for him.
 
I've always liked Bate so I'm open to the idea, of course it all depends on cost etc. He's only 24 still so if he does come good for us he'd still be around for our next tilt at the flag.
 

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Rumour Farran Ray, Matthew Bate

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