The mind truly boggles.
If we're going to have to 'get rid of a team', i'd much, much rather the Demons and Kangaroos to stay in the competition, allowing the Swans to start their own little NSWFL.
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Financial Crisis : At last 2 Melbourne teams fold?
- Thread starter Memories
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The mind truly boggles.
If we're going to have to 'get rid of a team', i'd much, much rather the Demons and Kangaroos to stay in the competition, allowing the Swans to start their own little NSWFL.
Why in the hell would the Hawks want to relocate to Tassie??? We are now one of the wealthiest clubs in Victoria. Maybe YOU should think about relocating there instead..We have NEVER gone begging to the AFL for a hand out, unlike some AFL clubs..We have done it the hard way!!! I can assure you that the HAWKS will NEVER relocate to Tasmania or anywhere for that matter..End of discussion..Worry about your own club, and let other clubs worry about themselves..
Some people have long memories. I would've once rated clubs the same way by saying clubs were either safe, on the brink, or need to reloacte or take some sort of drastic action to survive. No longer can we rate clubs in this way. Hawthorn a few years ago were in the cellar and considering a merger with Melbourne. Where are they now? Massive profts, a well run club and a premiership on field. This translates to more membership in following years.
For a club to either relocate or fold, they would need to have major issues, further advanced than any of the clubs currently have (as far as we're aware). In the past we've seen clubs that have been in trouble and pulled themselves out (Richmond, Footscray, Hawthorn, Melbourne, St Kilda). All have survived and propered in a way although you could argue that Melbourne haven't really recovered.
At this point in time, Collingwood, Essendon, Geelong are safe. One bad investment and some mismanagement of off field issues, and the tide can change (see Carlton FC). Once a powerhouse, on field now have a bright future, but continuously tangled in talk of fraud, debt etc. But also a club that can fight and live through it all
For a club to either relocate or fold, they would need to have major issues, further advanced than any of the clubs currently have (as far as we're aware). In the past we've seen clubs that have been in trouble and pulled themselves out (Richmond, Footscray, Hawthorn, Melbourne, St Kilda). All have survived and propered in a way although you could argue that Melbourne haven't really recovered.
At this point in time, Collingwood, Essendon, Geelong are safe. One bad investment and some mismanagement of off field issues, and the tide can change (see Carlton FC). Once a powerhouse, on field now have a bright future, but continuously tangled in talk of fraud, debt etc. But also a club that can fight and live through it all
How can we be interstate? Incase u missed the memo the game is now called the AFL not the VFL.
To the OP, are u serious? Can u remember when the hawks were goin to merge with melbourne because they were about to collapse?? And who just won the premiership.
If any team were to fold it should be the dockers.
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i say merge the bulldogs and demons, to create a spot for gold coast. and just wait for the kangaroos to collapse which leaves a spot for west sydney or tassie
Good on ya Memories, you have had your arse handed to you on a plate so many times on this site but you just keep trying
Very poorly disguised troll.
Let's not be too harsh on Memories.
30 rounds in a season is an absolute impossibility. AFL is a high endurance sport, and probably one of the most physically demanding professional sports in the world. The most you'll have is the abolishment of a pre-season cup and the season extended to 24 rounds.
Your intention to expand the AFL should be applauded. We all want the best for our game, but we need to be realistic as well and understand the facts.
The Northern Territory has a population of 200,000. There is no way it will ever have a team. Instead, it is a lucrative territory for existing clubs to recruit exciting Aboriginal players.
I think if you read the expansion forum (why isn't this thread in the expansion forum btw?), you'll find most people agree that Tasmania needs a team, and QLD, NSW need a 2nd team.
The reasonable argument has been that we can't accomodate a competition with more than 18 teams.
First, as mentioned before, the players simply can't play AFL for more than six months a year. More teams means more rounds, we can't have that.
Second, as you mentioned, financially (particularly as we may be possibly entering a depression that may last another decade) we can't support more than 18 teams.
The AFL has experienced a boom for two decades, and has had the extra cash rolling in to keep poor Victorian clubs afloat.
However, like all things in the world, including our economy, the booms do turn into busts eventually. The AFL cannot be paying for poor clubs forever, and at the same time, hope to export our game to not only across the country, but beyond our borders (we're building a stadium in China now).
The likely and most commonly heard scenario is that within the next decade, two Victorian clubs will have to make way.
We don't yet understand the severity of the economic crisis, and predictions are it will get worse. The AFL is about to invest heavily into Queensland, NSW and the international market.
TV networks, given the current economic climate, will not pay $1billion for TV rights, unless another player (such as ESPN) comes into the fray and helps fork out the bill in a Foxtel-Ten-Seven type deal.
TV remains the AFL's main source of revenue. If that revenue steadies, so will the AFL's budget.
The AFL can't expect itself to grow in wealth and strength while the rest of the economy shrinks. It's false thinking.
And I seriously doubt the AFL's ability to continue its current policy of investing millions in the development of the game worldwide, and still fork out yearly rescue packages for impoverished clubs.
We can do this now because the AFL can afford it. But don't expect the AFL to have hundreds of millions of spare cash under its belt forever.
The obvious target will be Victoria's weakest clubs. The day the AFL realises it can't spend, spend, spend, it will, unfortunately, cull some Vics. All the more reason why clubs like Melbourne, NM and WB have a serious sense of urgency in their desire to get their act together.
30 rounds in a season is an absolute impossibility. AFL is a high endurance sport, and probably one of the most physically demanding professional sports in the world. The most you'll have is the abolishment of a pre-season cup and the season extended to 24 rounds.
Your intention to expand the AFL should be applauded. We all want the best for our game, but we need to be realistic as well and understand the facts.
The Northern Territory has a population of 200,000. There is no way it will ever have a team. Instead, it is a lucrative territory for existing clubs to recruit exciting Aboriginal players.
I think if you read the expansion forum (why isn't this thread in the expansion forum btw?), you'll find most people agree that Tasmania needs a team, and QLD, NSW need a 2nd team.
The reasonable argument has been that we can't accomodate a competition with more than 18 teams.
First, as mentioned before, the players simply can't play AFL for more than six months a year. More teams means more rounds, we can't have that.
Second, as you mentioned, financially (particularly as we may be possibly entering a depression that may last another decade) we can't support more than 18 teams.
The AFL has experienced a boom for two decades, and has had the extra cash rolling in to keep poor Victorian clubs afloat.
However, like all things in the world, including our economy, the booms do turn into busts eventually. The AFL cannot be paying for poor clubs forever, and at the same time, hope to export our game to not only across the country, but beyond our borders (we're building a stadium in China now).
The likely and most commonly heard scenario is that within the next decade, two Victorian clubs will have to make way.
We don't yet understand the severity of the economic crisis, and predictions are it will get worse. The AFL is about to invest heavily into Queensland, NSW and the international market.
TV networks, given the current economic climate, will not pay $1billion for TV rights, unless another player (such as ESPN) comes into the fray and helps fork out the bill in a Foxtel-Ten-Seven type deal.
TV remains the AFL's main source of revenue. If that revenue steadies, so will the AFL's budget.
The AFL can't expect itself to grow in wealth and strength while the rest of the economy shrinks. It's false thinking.
And I seriously doubt the AFL's ability to continue its current policy of investing millions in the development of the game worldwide, and still fork out yearly rescue packages for impoverished clubs.
We can do this now because the AFL can afford it. But don't expect the AFL to have hundreds of millions of spare cash under its belt forever.
The obvious target will be Victoria's weakest clubs. The day the AFL realises it can't spend, spend, spend, it will, unfortunately, cull some Vics. All the more reason why clubs like Melbourne, NM and WB have a serious sense of urgency in their desire to get their act together.
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So there in lies the true docker fan.............no true passion and no HEART........
For many of us,our clubs colours pump through our vains,and the three reseason you offer up would NEVER be enough to give up or walk away ala 1996,i fought tooth an nail....and would do it AGAIN................AND I WOULD NEVER SUGGEST TO ANY OTHER SUPPORTER TO JUST "GIVE UP"REMEMBER............THIS COMP WAS BUILT BY OUR TEAMS AND ITS SUPPORTERS................NOT THE MEXICANS
THATS THE FACTS
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In 10 years I hope we have the following:
Victoria:10 teams
Western Australia:4 teams
South Australia: 3 teams
New South Wales: 2 teams
Queensland: 2 teams
Tasmania: 1 team
Canberra: 1 team
23 teams, 22 rounds of footy. Every team plays each other once. Each year each team alternates its fixture so they play every team home and away over a 2 year period. Hopefully in 10 years rugby and soccer dies of in Australia and most kids play and follow footy
Victoria:10 teams
Western Australia:4 teams
South Australia: 3 teams
New South Wales: 2 teams
Queensland: 2 teams
Tasmania: 1 team
Canberra: 1 team
23 teams, 22 rounds of footy. Every team plays each other once. Each year each team alternates its fixture so they play every team home and away over a 2 year period. Hopefully in 10 years rugby and soccer dies of in Australia and most kids play and follow footy
Couldn't have an extra team in WA, two is max. The third one wouldn't survive.In 10 years I hope we have the following:
Victoria:10 teams
Western Australia:4 teams
South Australia: 3 teams
New South Wales: 2 teams
Queensland: 2 teams
Tasmania: 1 team
Canberra: 1 team
23 teams, 22 rounds of footy. Every team plays each other once. Each year each team alternates its fixture so they play every team home and away over a 2 year period. Hopefully in 10 years rugby and soccer dies of in Australia and most kids play and follow footy
Same with SA (Port struggling badly as it is). West Sydney and Gold Coast could work, Canberra doesn't have the population and i'm sure we all want to see a Tassie team.
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Thanks mate
If I may add further to say that I'm a former Tasmanian and a saints supporter. If I moved back with a "tasmanian hawks" entity (for example) I would probably have a soft spot for them but I would not and could not support a relocated team financially or indeed morally. The only good thing about it would be more afl games.
Melbourne and North Melbourne simply shouldn't be in the AFL. Both are relics of the old suburban competition and are have no place being in the national competition.
In 10 years I hope we have the following:
Victoria:10 teams
Western Australia:4 teams
South Australia: 3 teams
New South Wales: 2 teams
Queensland: 2 teams
Tasmania: 1 team
Canberra: 1 team
23 teams, 22 rounds of footy. Every team plays each other once. Each year each team alternates its fixture so they play every team home and away over a 2 year period. Hopefully in 10 years rugby and soccer dies of in Australia and most kids play and follow footy
23 teams is clearly not an option. The standard would drop significantly
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WA could easily have a 3rd team. Both clubs pretty much sell out every home game and have 40,000+ members. In 10 years hopefully rugby crowds continue to decline and footy becomes more popular in nsw and qld
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- #68
Diehard supporters.... hilarious. If my team had no future hope in regards to being a team, why delay the inevitable? A real, intelligent supporter knows when to give up. Meanwhile brain dead 2x4s keep getting nailed.
Here's a clue, if your team is failing because no one supports it there is a reason for it. If that reason can't be fixed it's time to move on like most of the supporters of your club.
I will keep supporting Fremantle until they are no more, however I could understand others wanting us to fold if that was the case. We won't though simply because we have a lot of money now to last out 10 bad years, and there is only 2 of us in WA. If we were in Melbourne we would be much worse off and quite likely could have folded already.
The fact is all the talk about Freo is just theoretical, the talk about North, Bulldogs and Melbourne is REAL. Face reality you guys. Move on to another team or move on to soccer.
Here's a clue, if your team is failing because no one supports it there is a reason for it. If that reason can't be fixed it's time to move on like most of the supporters of your club.
I will keep supporting Fremantle until they are no more, however I could understand others wanting us to fold if that was the case. We won't though simply because we have a lot of money now to last out 10 bad years, and there is only 2 of us in WA. If we were in Melbourne we would be much worse off and quite likely could have folded already.
The fact is all the talk about Freo is just theoretical, the talk about North, Bulldogs and Melbourne is REAL. Face reality you guys. Move on to another team or move on to soccer.
WA could easily have a 3rd team. Both clubs pretty much sell out every home game and have 40,000+ members. In 10 years hopefully rugby crowds continue to decline and footy becomes more popular in nsw and qld
Rugby League crowds only decreased by about 160 people from 2007 to 2008
NRL Average Crowds
2000 - 14,366
2001 - 13,256
2002 - 13,084
2003 - 14,469
2004 - 14,671
2005 - 16,468
2006 - 15,600
2007 - 15,750
2008 - 15,591
Rugby League will never die in NSW/QLD. It may decline (depending on many different factors) but it will never die.
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- #70
Obviously, it's like saying the oil won't run out simply because we won't be able to find every single drop of it on the planet. Die is just a term to say rugby will get much less attention than it does today and it looks like it will happen.
Take away all the bias and rugby is more boring than AFL. However rugby is more entertaining than cricket, basketball, soccer or any of those sports so it will always have a small place.
Victorian clubs aren't struggling, they are in many ways significantly out-performing all other interstate clubs.
You have clean stadiums in the other states generating 10-12m per annum from home games because you don't have profiteering stadiums taking a significant chunk of the profits from the clubs.
If Melbourne, Bulldogs, North and St Kilda approached the state and federal government to build the stadium and if needed have a restraint of trade order by the supreme court which wouldn't allow the AFL to force us to play where we didn't want to play, the same right as interstate clubs have, then a 30k stadium which was sold as reserved seating would make anywhere between $800k to $1m per game and give those clubs the same kind of revenue enjoyed by interstate clubs.
Add $10-12m net to any "struggling" Victorian club and tell me what their bottom line would be like given most are struggling to get $2m net from existing stadium deals.
If these clubs got off their arses and fought for their rights all their futures would be secured, lets see how MCC and TD go with 40 odd fewer games.
You have clean stadiums in the other states generating 10-12m per annum from home games because you don't have profiteering stadiums taking a significant chunk of the profits from the clubs.
If Melbourne, Bulldogs, North and St Kilda approached the state and federal government to build the stadium and if needed have a restraint of trade order by the supreme court which wouldn't allow the AFL to force us to play where we didn't want to play, the same right as interstate clubs have, then a 30k stadium which was sold as reserved seating would make anywhere between $800k to $1m per game and give those clubs the same kind of revenue enjoyed by interstate clubs.
Add $10-12m net to any "struggling" Victorian club and tell me what their bottom line would be like given most are struggling to get $2m net from existing stadium deals.
If these clubs got off their arses and fought for their rights all their futures would be secured, lets see how MCC and TD go with 40 odd fewer games.
Ok then, what about when a team manages to get back on their feet, e.g Hawthorn who looked like they were going to merge or collapse, or North - last year they were about to go, now they're in a much better situation and the signs say they'll keep improving.
Also you say Victorian teams have such poor crowd attendances ext. well the reason there isn't a team in Tassie is because there isn't a suitable stadium (i think aurorais like 20,000 or something) , all but the very lowest attendance figures in melbourne get more than that. And as for Darwin, their stadium probably holds 10,000? i really don't know but it wouldn't be much.
Sorry that is completely beyond him. He wants to kill every team that is at the bottom.
If we killed every team who was struggling financially at a stage (when the supporters should have given up according to him) there would be no-
Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond, Melbourne, Hawthorn, St Kilda, North, Port, Sydney, Brisbane, Fremantle, Bulldogs.
The league would be down to Essendon, Adelaide and West Coast. What fun!
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- #74
I understand what you are saying but you are talking about a MELBOURNE club here. You do understand half the problems the melbourne teams keep having on a cyclical basis since at least the 80s is due to the NUMBER of melbourne teams?
Some "interstate" clubs have ups and downs with success, Port,Sydney,Lions being the biggest with Freo in the middle and clubs like WCE and Adelaide having high memberships nearly their entire existence. However none of these other clubs are really THAT bad off, even Port in it's bad time now is still doing pretty good compared to the melbourne teams.
I've already stated the darwin idea was silly, it was based on incorrect data so I removed that. So 7 teams in Melbourne/Vic means 3 need to go.
Hawks should thank their lucky stars that they are high right now, because the 2-3 lowest teams in regards to finances are going to struggle really bad and likely fold over the coming year or two. It could easily be them folding, but they got back on their toes and good for them.
Melbourne, Bulldogs and North have dwindling supporter bases. This is a fact. Why are people leaving them? I guess it's the cyclical melbourne effect. Either way, cull them all. Smart business. Of course the AFL won't do it now, it's hoping it happens before 2011. I feel sorry for all the supporters of those teams but the quicker you move on the quicker you can resume happiness.
30 weeks of regular season games?
Why not just line every player up and shoot them?
Why not just line every player up and shoot them?
