footydraft updated

[TheSooner]

I didn't say I wouldn't take a key forward and I've read on here Dowler's a leading forward, which we do have with Waite, Fev, Deluca, O'Hailpin and Fisher.

We need a CHF/CHB like Kennedy who can contest or an onballer/defender like Hurn.

Waite - more a utility/flanker
Fev - genuine, but inconsistent fast leading medium forward
Deluca - can he play at all? Either way certainly no leading forward
O'Hailpin - can he play at all? Heaps of talent, but just as much to learn. Fisher - more a flanker
Hartlett - can he play at all? Hasn't ever displayed any decent signs of playing forward.

Part of the problem with Carlton supporters (and I'm one) is that they are delusional about our stock (or lack therof).

 

[Blind Fred]

Why is Birchall being linked with the Crows? It won't happen - not at picks 16 or 17 anyway. Bode may interest them with a later pick (48) but you can forget Elliott. Looking at a possible top 20, I reckon they will be hoping Pfeiffer or Varcoe are still available but the way it's looking someone like Swallow, Douglas or Thomas also could be there for the taking. If the main big blokes like Kennedy, Ryder and Clark are all gone, I can't see anyone else of this type good enough for these picks. So midfielders will be the go.

 

[Effes]

Our forward line is still a big deficiency IMO...........no one there who can take a contested mark

It is quite easy for teams to zone players off to cut off the space from a leading forward like Fev. Waite doesn't have the smarts to play as a key forward......Fisher is still too light and with his bodyshape can he put on much more muscle?

 

[HBF]

Kennedy has a very serious shoulder injury. He will most likely require a full reconstruction and will miss as much time if not more than Dowler.
Hurn is a very good player, but arguably the most over rated player in these draft boards.

I can't believe I am reading Carlton people argue that they have enough key forwards.

All in all Dowler is amongst the best 3 Key forwards in the draft pool and the only local boy. He has kicked almost 100 goals in two seasons at TAC cup level and averaged almost 10 marks a game. Assuming his diagnosis is positive then why wouldn't they consider him?

When did this happen?

 

[Hu$$ey]

Our forward line is still a big deficiency IMO...........no one there who can take a contested mark

It is quite easy for teams to zone players off to cut off the space from a leading forward like Fev. Waite doesn't have the smarts to play as a key forward......Fisher is still too light and with his bodyshape can he put on much more muscle?

Isn't that what Dowler is??

And, Fisher is a very good contested mark in my opinion.

 

[Effes]

Dowler took some contested marks in the first game of the championships....one was a real speccy on the southern wing so he does have the ability to take contested marks

 

[Silvagnis]

Hartlett - can he play at all? Hasn't ever displayed any decent signs of playing forward.

So you're writing him off as a lesser chance to be a player than a guy with a broken pelvis?

Part of the problem with Carlton supporters (and I'm one) is that they are delusional about our stock (or lack therof).

I'm not delusional about Carlton's stock, but why has Kennedy suddenly dropped and Dowler rocketed up to four on Footydraft when they both have injuries? And Dowler's is way more serious than a bung shoulder IMHO.

I hope Carlton aren't worried about possible go home factor with the interstate players in this draft and basing a decision on this.

Our forward line is still a big deficiency IMO...........no one there who can take a contested mark

That's why we should go for Kennedy if he's available.

 

[BatteredBulldog]

The Bulldogs have pick 59 not the Swans.

 

[Effes]

That's why we should go for Kennedy if he's available.

I agree

 

[Sezzac1]

I didn't say I wouldn't take a key forward and I've read on here Dowler's a leading forward, which we do have with Waite, Fev, Deluca, O'Hailpin and Fisher.

We need a CHF/CHB like Kennedy who can contest or an onballer/defender like Hurn.

When was the last time YOU saw Kennedy play CHB or read a review of him playing CHB.

Cypher I admire your loyalty but frankly you believe everything you read here on BF. I would suggest that about 1% of people here on BF have ever seen Kennedy play down back. (has he ever done so?) If you are part of that 1% please tell us all where it was and how he went. Even in the U18 champs he basically played HFF most of the time.

In the WAFL Seniors he also played HFF. In the WA Colts I am told by those who were there he played FF and CHF.

Kennedy has been hyped more than most in 2005. His draft camp was crap and his U18 Champ performances were so-so. His AA selction was very questionable. The kid can play but so can alot of others. If you think Kennedy is a better contested mark than Dowler you obviously haven't seen much U18 footy.

 

[Crow-mosone]

I'm not delusional about Carlton's stock, but why has Kennedy suddenly dropped and Dowler rocketed up to four on Footydraft when they both have injuries? And Dowler's is way more serious than a bung shoulder IMHO.

um. that's not a real reflection of the stock of either player.

 

[Ysaye]

When was the last time YOU saw Kennedy play CHB or read a review of him playing CHB.

Cypher I admire your loyalty but frankly you believe everything you read here on BF. I would suggest that about 1% of people here on BF have ever seen Kennedy play down back. (has he ever done so?) If you are part of that 1% please tell us all where it was and how he went. Even in the U18 champs he basically played HFF most of the time.

In the WAFL Seniors he also played HFF. In the WA Colts I am told by those who were there he played FF and CHF.

Kennedy has been hyped more than most in 2005. His draft camp was crap and his U18 Champ performances were so-so. His AA selction was very questionable. The kid can play but so can alot of others. If you think Kennedy is a better contested mark than Dowler you obviously haven't seen much U18 footy.

I agree with what Sezzac is saying. I haven't seen Dowler play, but I have watched Kennedy, Ryder, Clark (and Swallow) for East Freo. Ryder stands out as the best talent of those four, and to be honest, if you asked me which one would I take if I needed to fill a KP out of those three (before reading here that Clark was soft) I would have said Clark.

From the few games that I have seen, Kennedy is a really decent KP prospect. Most likely he could be plugged in anywhere along the spine and do reasonably well. He also would have been ready to go had he not had his shoulder injury. I think the fact that he is "ready to go" was pulling him up the order a bit too much.

If I had an early draft pick (1-6) I would want to get more than just a really solid player. If Dowler is as good as I am reading (Especially in terms of contested marks) then it makes sense that they would pick him with 4 (If they wanted a KP player and not the best player), unless his injury has permanently damaged his ability to play.

Also, I can't see Freo letting Swallow go by our pick ten (as suggested in the update), even if we didn't pick him last year. Actually, I can't see him going past Essendon either - would have thought he was the right fit for them (Best player Swallow/Clark comparison IMO you would go with Swallow).

 

[macca69]

Why is Birchall being linked with the Crows? It won't happen - not at picks 16 or 17 anyway. Bode may interest them with a later pick (48) but you can forget Elliott. Looking at a possible top 20, I reckon they will be hoping Pfeiffer or Varcoe are still available but the way it's looking someone like Swallow, Douglas or Thomas also could be there for the taking. If the main big blokes like Kennedy, Ryder and Clark are all gone, I can't see anyone else of this type good enough for these picks. So midfielders will be the go.

Have heard that Adelaide rate Birchall quite highly, around top 10 I think, which isn't surprising given Craig loves tall athletes. Although not sure they will pick Douglas, if Varcoe is available then they prob;y would pick him.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Our forward line is still a big deficiency IMO...........no one there who can take a contested mark

It is quite easy for teams to zone players off to cut off the space from a leading forward like Fev. Waite doesn't have the smarts to play as a key forward......Fisher is still too light and with his bodyshape can he put on much more muscle?

Fisher is still light but he already takes contested marks. If he adds on a bit more bulk, he will be nigh on unstoppable. With some Blues fans arguing that we could do with another forward, I'd like to know how they will feel with these gun forwards catching a cold inside 50 or coming down to half back to get their kicks while our midfield struggles and our defence cops a flogging. I'd rather see us build evenly through the lines than stockpile forwards who want to be traded every year because they are starved of opportunities.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I'd rather see us build evenly through the lines than stockpile forwards who want to be traded every year because they are starved of opportunities.

I agree with this. People tend to look at current problems with their team now, rather than problems they may have in the future due to the young talent they currently have.

 

[YAKUZA]

Be prepared for Essendon to take a real smoky at pick 51 that i doubt anyone on here has yet heard of, thats if he's still there!

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Drum,Dempsey & White and not a KP in sight
Interesting and highly unlikely.
Not sure if we would use #8 on a kid who,s prime position is on a HBF.We have bigger holes to fill.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Footyman, I know you have a rather gigantic job on your hands, but I can't see us taking 3 key defenders. Yeah, we're a bit light on for them, but that's probably a bit of overkill.

Can we expect profiles on some of the QLD guys being filled out soon?

Good reading as always.

 

[worthy]

Ryder - KPP/Ruck
Kennedy - KPP
Higgins - Mid - Good skills, smart
Muston - Mid - Could be anything
Oakley-Nicholls - Fast with x factor

I'd take that
Lock it in Eddie

 

[Silvagnis]

When was the last time YOU saw Kennedy play CHB or read a review of him playing CHB.

I admit I haven't seen him play, but if it's good enough for you to agree with respected posters who have him going first or in the top four of their phantom drafts.
Why should I take their opinion for less than face value?

I admire your loyalty but frankly you believe everything you read here on BF.

I don't believe everything I read on here because only an idiot would do that.

In the WAFL Seniors he also played HFF. In the WA Colts I am told by those who were there he played FF and CHF.

So you didn't see him play himself? You shouldn't believe everything you hear.
As you would have been told Ryder has played ruck in the WAFL, but it's hard to see him taking that into the AFL with Goodes having battered from pillar to post.
So can I assume Ryder will have to play KPP despite being a ruckman?

Kennedy has been hyped more than most in 2005. His draft camp was crap and his U18 Champ performances were so-so. His AA selction was very questionable. The kid can play but so can alot of others. If you think Kennedy is a better contested mark than Dowler you obviously haven't seen much U18 footy.

I didn't say Dowler was a better contested mark and I'm of the opinion Carlton's forward line isn't as bad as our midfield, rucks and defence.I don't think Carlton can take the risk and draft a player that has a busted pelvis as high as four.

 

[blumfieldisback]

i dont think adelaide will go for richard douglas, they tend to go for home grown talent and i think varcoe might be in there radar. On the other hand they do need key position forwards and they lost fergus watts for a draft pick.

 

[Embers]

If we got Andrew Swallow id be thrilled, although I couldnt see him cracking a game for a few years atleast.

If Eagles let Bower slip ill eat my hat, more chance of Carlton winning the flag then that happening. I dont know why you think we will get Grae Grant.

Josh Kennedy has always had shoulder problems so it aint much of a big deal and he is still the best KPP in the draft by a mile, he wont play defence though if thats what people think. I seen him play defence he always looks really lost. Kennedy + Dowler two best KPPs in draft with injury problems.

Oakley Nicholls and Dale Thomas shud swap and thatd be right, Freo wil take him for sure, he is exactly what they need, no way Brisbane wud take Nathan Jones either.

One thing that does stand out is the drop off in quality past pick 15, Swallow v Higgins is a no contest really. Past pick 30 you really are wasting your time this year.

 

[blumfieldisback]

I think amore likely scenario is that essendon will go for a kpp player who they can shape into a backman, but is capable of going forward much like lucas, except more body on body like. Then with pick 19 and if he is still there they might take the chance on varcoe, if they are going to get heff and campo in the psd they can afford to wait on this kids injury to heal, most first year players dont have huge impacts on clubs. Judd had injury problems or queries so did hodge, given time injuries are forgotten but the quality of player remains.

 

[Bee Vee]

Our forward line is still a big deficiency IMO...........no one there who can take a contested mark

It is quite easy for teams to zone players off to cut off the space from a leading forward like Fev. Waite doesn't have the smarts to play as a key forward......Fisher is still too light and with his bodyshape can he put on much more muscle?

Very true.
Carlton is the longest kicking team per possession in the AFL.
They also have the second highest average of inside 50 entries per possession in the AFL.

The structural weakness is the lack of a big body in the forward corridor to capitalise on the rapid ball movement and take a pack mark.
Forget Whitnall, Fisher or Waite. They can all play the floating forward role well but none of them have the size to compete consistently in a pack situation.
As for Hartlett, he seems far more accomplished down back. I'd like to know which games he's shown something up forward.
Leave him in the backline where he's shown composure and seems comfortable.

I'm not saying we should take Dowler but he is 195cm, has good draft camp results, good contested mark and he has his family/friends in Melbourne to support him, he's as good an option as any.

 

[tige19]

its crap Footyman