Discussion Fremantle's Jumper

[Stewart2Austin Reborn]

So, we've now reached the off-season and things are getting boring. So let's spice it up with some good old discussion.

When Fremantle changed their jumper (and logo) in 2011, there were mixed emotions. Some, like me, thought it looked classy and that it was a breathe of fresh air and signalled a new era. Others didn't.

As time has gone on, my feelings have slightly changed. I miss the anchor. I miss the red and green. They were iconic, and now they're gone. I understand they still use red and green in their training jumpers, but I'd like to see it on the field more often.

What do you think, FJAGD?

1995-2010 design.

Spoiler: click here to see some real life images

Pros:
Has an anchor, which looks great.
Makes use of green and red and the whole port and starboard thing on ships, so they actually mean something.

Cons:
A little cluttered.
Associated with bad times.
No decent clash jumper equivalent.

2011-present design

Spoiler: click here to see some real life images

Pros:
Clean looking, modern looking.
Adds a certain intimidation factor.
Sort of heritage.

Cons:
A little bland.
The clash version is very bland (not to me, but to most)
There's no red or green.

Purple haze

Spoiler: click here to see some real life images

Pros:
Has an anchor, which looks great.
Clean looking, modern looking.
Intimidation factor.

Cons:
No red or green.
A tiny bit bland.

 

[Groupie_]

1995-2010

Home (above) and away (majority green)

 

[El_Scorcho]

Their branding has been so much better with the new one.

Freo are currently at their best when it comes to branding. It's a shame the red and green had to go but there is no way to work it in without compromising a really good design.

 

[onthemoney]

I think with Port and Freo there's a case to be made that something more simple and traditional is a hit with the fans. Reckon they've both done really well with their re-designs.

Have Freo still got plans to change their song as well or were they shelved?

 

[SJ]

Their branding has been so much better with the new one.

Freo are currently at their best when it comes to branding. It's a shame the red and green had to go but there is no way to work it in without compromising a really good design.

It's not a shame really, no club should have four colours. Two is ideal, three an absolute maximum.

 

[Bryce_Jersey17]

I think, either keep the current or have the purple with white anchor.
I too loved the red and green symbology, so maybe just have those as the sleeves/cuffs?

 

[Silent Alarm]

As the Footy Jumper board's resident lifelong Freo fan, I'll have a fair bit to say here.

Firstly, the jumper you have as '1995-2010' is wrong. You've put the 2010 jumper and retroactively noted it as 'the' anchor jumper. I don't know why. You obviously got the photos from Mero's site, which clearly labels them by year. Plus, you've thrown in our first (and second best) white clash jumper as a Purple Haze. I don't get it.

When the change was rumoured, I was pretty disheartened. Green and red and an anchor was quintessentially Fremantle – it was a bit clunky, a bit different, and not the most intimidating thing in footy. I thought the chevrons signalled something dull. I actually never really understood the love for the Purple Haze... it always seemed a bit empty and soulless. The anchors exposed too much colour, or, made the design a bit unbalanced, it's hard to describe...

Now, I really like the chevrons. The three-chevrons are timeless. They aren't modern at all. Chevrons are as relevant in 2012 as they were in the 19th century. They're simple and plain and go well with every colour. I like how usable they are in marketing, and I really like how we've claimed it as our own: Plenty of other clubs have chevrons, but we are the only ones with three. It still has a degree of individuality about it.

The green and red was just for marketing. Purple was anointed as a colour because, in '94, it was the most underused colour in US sport. Green and red was rumoured to have plenty of inspirations, and much like a tacky backronym, the club kind of said "uh, yeah, I guess it has a sea theme" and "yeah that's right, Freo has a vibrant Italian heritage, it was all intentional!" I mean, it's pretty disappointing that we no longer have the criminally underused green, but since '96, we never really utilised it anyway.

From a branding perspective, red and green became an obstacle. You could tell manufacturers and designers kind of hated them. Working with four colours is hard. Polos, teamwear, and merchandising was always a bit awkward and cluttered. The refined colourway makes the membership packages look really cool. I mean, it's quite bold.

West Coast could learn a few things from us (the gall!). They could learn how to win derbies and to not be ferals, but they could also learn to minimise their colourway. If there's one thing I don't mind about the Eagles, it's their Wings: That (pretty obviously 80s) gold and blue is pretty striking. From their jumpers to their member lanyards, everything would be much more refined and obviously West Coast with just two colours... why they prefer the extremely bland, overused navy is beyond me...

In essence, the anchor was very 'Freo' and it had character. But the chevrons symbolises professional, sincerity, and intent. I can't, and don't, complain.

 

[Omegaville]

I voted for the current one - it works well.

With the colours, I'd have ditched red and green and kept purple, or ditched purple and kept red and green. (White's a given). So if purple had been chucked, it would need to be a totally different design than the chevrons.

 

[Ochre]

West Coast could learn a few things from us (the gall!). They could learn how to win derbies and to not be ferals...

Here we go.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Here we go.

What's a footy forum without a bit of piss taking?

 

[justlookingaround]

The green and red was just for marketing. Purple was anointed as a colour because, in '94, it was the most underused colour in US sport. Green and red was rumoured to have plenty of inspirations, and much like a tacky backronym, the club kind of said "uh, yeah, I guess it has a sea theme" and "yeah that's right, Freo has a vibrant Italian heritage, it was all intentional!" I mean, it's pretty disappointing that we no longer have the criminally underused green, but since '96, we never really utilised it anyway.

I found this out unintentionally... looking at pictures of lighthouses...
But I'm pretty convinced that the red and green stem from Fremantle's north and south mole lighthouses.

As for my opinion, they're both good guernseys, the anchor and the chevrons are both good nautical representations, and coming out of the 90s, I think the chevrons will stand the test of time.

And another thing... if there was no white separating the green and red from the purple on Fremantle's anchor guernsey... it.would.be.hideous.
So I think the anchor is what really held that jumper together, no love lost in dropping the red and green IMO.

 

[Smeagle]

I've said it all before, and Fremantle don't really warrant the time of day, but the the whole chevron thing was contrived spin from the outset. Old Fremantle never wore three chevrons, it's just the product of another Heritage Round convenient (read aesthetically palatable) compromise.
This was more than a jumper change, of course. It altered the whole branding, perception and - unfortunately - 'feel' of the football club. Well, at least for me.
To completely discard a bold, unique and very-Fremantle identity for some classic 21st-century faux heritage BS was a damn shame. Some people - most likely corporates and 'creatives' (see below) - would argue the Freo were prime candidates for a total rebranding, and we all know why; but something that sets us as Australian Rules aside from the rest is an optimistic, overcoming-adversity culture, ingrained perhaps in the emotional member-centricity of our clubs. It will be the same Fremantle FC (or will that be Cockburn...) that holds the NAB Cup aloft one day in the distant future. It's a tad sad for the first generation of fans there'll be no red or green ribbons.

'Dockers': I agree with (and, politics aside, it was kind of a contradictory thing to revert back to the founding nickname - cheesy but just... right).

Forced, try-hard logos; a boring, run-of-the-mill colourway; and turning your back on your roots, unsuccessful or otherwise: I do not.
And before you accuse me of being an West Coast supporter, the exact same applies to the Eagles 2000-.

Australian graphic designers - with all the resources, precedence and opportunity in the world - by and large really have no idea about sport. Fremantle 2011 was just exhibit ZZZ in a string of incompetence that leaves most of us consistently let-down.
Whether this is because these creatives are the stereotypical arty type, with a passing-if-any interest in the back pages, or because our sporting clubs and cultures aren't geared the same way as the Americans in terms of brand/marketing power, or because people like us are confined to an amateur, hobbyist state of involvement... I'm not sure. Thank God for the Western Sydney Wanderers showing us a little hope.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Purple and green going isn't really an issue for Freo fans, though.

The club was born the same year as I was, so I like to think of myself as a lifelong fan. I've had my spiel.

Probably a slightly irrelevant side story, but whatever. My old man had a pretty tough upbringing for a plethora of reasons. The other day, he had an episode of bush psychiatry. I wouldn't call him a very sentimental person, but he was saying how (amongst other things) he likes footy because it was one of the only normal things he had. Going to watch South Fremantle play with his brother and dad was, essentially, the closest he got to being regular. I could write a hundred essays on why footy is cool and grouse, and most of those would be about the importance it plays in peoples lives. It's a game and it's important to hold some distance and realise that... but, it's a great divergence from mundanity and the perils and pains of normality. If football, particularly in the city of Fremantle, means that much to him, those green and red probably would have as well... and if he'd had an issue, I'm sure my dad would've had a bitch to me about the soullessness of the Dockers. Alas, he dug the rebrand and likes our 'new' strip.

If he, or I, or my kid's grandkids are alive when Freo win their first flag, two peripheral colours won't be an issue. It'll be about the Pavs and Fyfes and even the Doigs and Michaels who kind of made East, South, and the combined Freo. And as iconic and quintessentially Fremantle as our first jumpers were, they are a little out of place. Whether I like it or not, this is a corporate game as much as it is one on grass. It's important to have an attractive image, and a new identity was deemed necessary in making this club an attractive one.

I also love our colourway. It's like no other. How many sports clubs have purple, let alone as the predominate colour? In fact, how many teams can lay claim to an entire colour? Maybe the Brazilian and Dutch national soccer team. I don't think it's boring and I don't think it's uninspired. I think, if anything, the red and green basically made the purple look more gimmicky than it should've been.

But maybe the anchor and green and red was a little more... out there. Someone seeing the chevrons as a bit bland is a point I could see. I don't agree with it entirely, but I can understand that perspective. The awkward and clumsy colours and anchor might actually perpetuate the awkwardness of FFC: We are a club much like North (I prefer that to St Kilda or Footscray), rooted in a similarly working class area, for working class people, but a club full of character, hard work, and a bit of love for the jumper. Freo fans like parading around the fact that we're proud of who we are... we realise our issues and faults, but it's our club. The anchor probably holds a bit more pride because it helps show that. I don't know, though, I think some of that has a bit to do with nostalgia or whatever.

Australian graphic designers - with all the resources, precedence and opportunity in the world - by and large really have no idea about sport. Fremantle 2011 was just exhibit ZZZ in a string of incompetence that leaves most of us consistently let-down.
Whether this is because these creatives are the stereotypical arty type, with a passing-if-any interest in the back pages, or because our sporting clubs and cultures aren't geared the same way as the Americans in terms of brand/marketing power, or because people like us are confined to an amateur, hobbyist state of involvement... I'm not sure. Thank God for the Western Sydney Wanderers showing us a little hope.

However, I very much agree with this. It's a strange culture and niche, is sports design. Every other alley of top tier sport has been overhauled and dragged into professionalism. And although designers are professional, and although the logos are slick, there's some quite undercooked and immature about the industry.

Oh, and I agree about the NAB Cup. I'm sure it'll look great next to our three Premiership cups at the new Matthew Pavlich Stadium.

 

[Smeagle]

I also love our colourway. It's like no other. How many sports clubs have purple, let alone as the predominate colour? In fact, how many teams can lay claim to an entire colour? Maybe the Brazilian and Dutch national soccer team. I don't think it's boring and I don't think it's uninspired. I think, if anything, the red and green basically made the purple look more gimmicky than it should've been.

Ok, the purple. I'm not sure how calculated or how arbitrary it was. Just like the other two colours, you could reel off all kinds of hyperbole about it representing the vibrancy of the joint, or it being a mix of the read of Souths and blue of Easts, or this 'research' into foreign sports marketing. I'm not convinced it was intended at the outset as the hero colour - whether by diffidence in such a 'revolutionary' hue, and hence a desire for it to only ever be seen with dampening colours, or there being a genuine rationale behind red and green. Both were featured gratuitously in the original logo, and the latter was mighty prominent in the orignal away strip. Put it this way, I can't see that red and green were 'added' just as they were 'taken away'. But for all we know, it could have just been chosen with the rest of the brand because they looked good to the eye of the stakeholders.

Nevertheless, you do talk more about the legacy of what Fremantle is about during its time beyond inception, and purple has grown to be the enduring symbol. I'm not denying this was, and is, the colour that defined the team for many people, it was of course the predominant home hue.
If we were talking about an orignal colourway of blue-green-red-white (as was actually first reported by a 1994 news bulletin in a youtube video that seems to now have been lost to the gods) we would be talking very differently. The three would be seen as an inseparable package, none more worthy than the other, regardless of prominence. Purple was always the enemy of the other two, beyond the quantity of its usage.


However, it might be your violet-tinted glasses, but I don't see eye to eye on the second point. There are many, many teams that feature purple in professional sport, almost one in every code. Perth Glory, Melbourne Storm, Syndey Kings in our backyard. Minesota Vikings, Baltimore Ravens, Colorado Rockies, Sacramento Kings can all 'lay claim' to 'owning' the colour in their respective leagues. Plus dozens of American colleges and less-exposed soccer teams across Europe and the world.
For some reason, purple lends itself to an intrinsic sense of entitlement and 'ownership' - see Cadbury.

The same goes for any 'modern', bright predominant colour in any code... There will always be the one that feels it needs to 'own' that colour to hang their hat on. I don't mean to be crude, but....purple is okay, but it's still pretty ghey.

My point with Freo was exactly that awkwardness you talk about, the nautical red and green as part of a propped-up, yet culturally-rich package. Not necessary at all, and you argue perhaps counter-productive, but what price do you put on the original integrity of the brand? I'm a tad surprised a Freo man such as yourself would be as flippant, but what would I know, maybe it was all too butt-ugly to work with anyway. There was never outrage at the change, it was a while ago now and the footy world has become used to it, as have even the most hardened supporters it seems; and there never will be a return, things being as they are.

But maybe the anchor and green and red was a little more... out there. Someone seeing the chevrons as a bit bland is a point I could see. I don't agree with it entirely, but I can understand that perspective. The awkward and clumsy colours and anchor might actually perpetuate the awkwardness of FFC: We are a club much like North (I prefer that to St Kilda or Footscray), rooted in a similarly working class area, for working class people, but a club full of character, hard work, and a bit of love for the jumper. Freo fans like parading around the fact that we're proud of who we are... we realise our issues and faults, but it's our club. The anchor probably holds a bit more pride because it helps show that. I don't know, though, I think some of that has a bit to do with nostalgia or whatever.

Yep, it was a convoluted experiment in scratch mass-branding from scratch, and would surely never be attempted today. I argue the original Fremantle Dockers was brave and poignant, and like the West Coast Eagles of the late 80s, a signpost of a time gone by and particilarly importantly, a time of an honest approach to sporting identity and graphic design. The 00s/10s have a lot to answer for. We can update, tweak and flog off crap to our hearts content, sure; but just as the Vics, Swans, Lions and Power proclaim a heritage, the WA clubs do have strong identities that are a products or the resepective eras. Such sentimentality is inherent in the AFL as a sport, I'd hate to see the line drawn at the VFL, afterwhich 'rebrandings' are the norm.
The trend in our sports-designing Mecca, let's be honest, is heartening as it is damning, though. Just this week, the Houston Astros respectfully went back in time, and instantly 'grew up'. There is an artistic style, almost, to 'rebranding' that shows a very fine line, one that Australian feet are too clumsy for, I fear. That's another discussion for another time.

Bolded is exactly the feeling I'm drawing from.
But yes, maybe as a 90s Perth kid, a design enthusiast as well as a footy romantic, these are all lame observations of a lame club in a very lame period in time.

However, I very much agree with this. It's a strange culture and niche, is sports design. Every other alley of top tier sport has been overhauled and dragged into professionalism. And although designers are professional, and although the logos are slick, there's some quite undercooked and immature about the industry.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[SC_GC]

maybe it was all too butt-ugly to work with anyway. There was never outrage at the change, it was a while ago now and the footy world has become used to it

It was purple, green, red and white is a terribly convoluted colourway and when mixed with a giant anchor on the front it just didn't look good. If Freo continued with this identity they would have been stuck in the 90's which is not a good decade in regards to design to be associated with. Now the have a very good package, that can be marketed easily and I don't know how anyone could possibly prefer what they had before over what they have now.

 

[Silent Alarm]

It was purple, green, red and white is a terribly convoluted colourway and when mixed with a giant anchor on the front it just didn't look good. If Freo continued with this identity they would have been stuck in the 90's which is not a good decade in regards to design to be associated with. Now the have a very good package, that can be marketed easily and I don't know how anyone could possibly prefer what they had before over what they have now.

Interesting you say this. I think the anchor was a rare bout of good design in a notoriously tacky decade. It was simple and bold: Essential for a budding sports team in a market owned by West Coast (who had seven or eight years and two flags). It didn't use gradients, it didn't feature a design more accustomed to socks (ahem, Hawthorn Argyle), and it wasn't screaming out "I'm from the 90s!" It was actually a pretty decent design.

West Coast's wings came from an era possible more disdained, and they managed to come up with a jumper that did the impossible: Be brand new and original but also not out of place with hundred year old designs. It's been downhill for new AFL clubs since then.

 

[SC_GC]

Interesting you say this. I think the anchor was a rare bout of good design in a notoriously tacky decade. It was simple and bold

I agree, I think the purple haze jumper looked great. It was only when added with the green and red that things went bad. Having said that I am not sad to see the anchor gone and I much prefer the chevrons.

 

[Stewart2Austin Reborn]

Fremantle:

Kit 1:

I like their chevrons, but think they should have kept their green/red.

This is a kit that I prposed from the your 2013 jumper ideas thread. I wondered what it'd look like in real life. Thorts?

 

[____]

This is a kit that I prposed from the your 2013 jumper ideas thread. I wondered what it'd look like in real life. Thorts?

Looks better without the red and green.

 

[Bryce_Jersey17]

I like it! Faint nod to their past whilst keeping the "modern" brand

 

[Silent Alarm]

It looks tacky and pointless and contrived.

 

[Mr Eagle]

It looks tacky and pointless and contrived.

I was going to go with 'crap', but this'll do...

 

[Omegaville]

I miss the red and green from the Freo jumper, but I don't think there's any point keeping it now, on the current jumper it is just out of place.
The old jumper was good, and this one does a good job too. That's just the way things go.

With regard to jumpers reflecting their eras: that's why the Gold Coast home jumper is what it is. It's an example of minimalist 2010 design, the "less is more" kind of thing. It's not retro, if it was retro they'd have used a sash or hoops. Nobody designs hooped jumpers any more, because it's a fashion faux pas ("makes you look fat").

 

[Bobby P]

I always thought the 3 chevrons should of been white, green and red?

 

[Purple_Passion]

I always thought the 3 chevrons should of been white, green and red?

A quick mock up, but you get the drift.