Geelong 08 : West Indies 91?

[skipjack]

Back in 91, the West Indies were still the number one ranked team in the world. They had plenty of good / great players and were considered unbeatable at home. They had carried an air of invincibility about them for some time.

Cue Australia's arrival, who were on the improve from one of the darkest periods of their history. No one really gave them a chance.

Somehow the Aussies got up for a victory in the one-day series. It was the first time in a decade that the Windies had been beaten in a series at home.

The Windies were still considered the best team in the world - but they were no longer invincible. They could be beaten. This change in mindset proved a massive difference in future series, where teams would take to the bullies. This change in attitude proved pivotal to dethroning the most arrogant team world cricket had ever known.

 

[bourbons]

Nope

 

[shotta]

Nope

The Handbaggers will fade into nothingness over the next 2 or 3 years, at least the Windies kept having a crack.

 

[skipjack]

Nope

Your in depth analysis has proven me wrong sir. Well played.

 

[Catsace]

The Windies won the test series in that acrimonious tour 2-1, as Australian won the final test, having lost the 2nd and 4th tests. The 1st and 3rd tests were ruined by rain. That was the tour of the Dean Jones 'no-ball run-out'.

The Windies though were not finished, as they also win in 1992-93 2-1 in Australia as they won that Adelaide test by 1 run, before an Ambrose inspired 3-day demolition of the Aussies in Perth saw them take the title again.

Australia won the 1995 tour under Mark Taylor, the start of our era of dominance in the test arena.

To be honest, i'd love Geelong to have an era that lasts as long as the Windies did, but i am just hoping that whatever Geelong do in 2009, they avoid a let-down like 1990 or 1993, when they missed the finals each year in seasons that proved to be very even and in 1993 particularly, rather questionable in quality.

In that remarkable 1993 season, the only year since 1970 that the season ran for just 20 games, can anyone fathom that Essendon topped the table with a very unremarkable 13-6-1 record, that Geelong finished 7th at 12-8, and amazingly, 12th placed Fitzroy were 10-10? No season in modern history can compare to that.

Geelong has to get top 4, and be in there giving themselves a chance for revenge. Who knows, maybe the Hawks will have a bit of a hangover, we'll see how they as a young side will handle the expectation and pressure of sides gunning for them in 2009. I'm hoping that rightfully, the reigning premier is seen as the benchmark now.

 

[Geoffa32]

No because the Windies were number one for over a decade before their decline. They were also dominant in an era in which every other nation were playing decent cricket too.

The Cats are more like Lleyton Hewitt.

Best team in a lean period. 2007-08 is a transition period in AFL footy. Cats took advantage.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

No because the Windies were number one for over a decade before their decline. They were also dominant in an era in which every other nation were playing decent cricket too.

The Cats are more like Lleyton Hewitt.

Best team in a lean period. 2007-08 is a transition period in AFL footy. Cats took advantage.

It often appears that way when one side is so much better than the rest, or two side in this years case.

Supporters of shit sides are always going to claim this sort of stuff.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

The Windies won the test series in that acrimonious tour 2-1, as Australian won the final test, having lost the 2nd and 4th tests. The 1st and 3rd tests were ruined by rain. That was the tour of the Dean Jones 'no-ball run-out'.

The Windies though were not finished, as they also win in 1992-93 2-1 in Australia as they won that Adelaide test by 1 run, before an Ambrose inspired 3-day demolition of the Aussies in Perth saw them take the title again.

Australia won the 1995 tour under Mark Taylor, the start of our era of dominance in the test arena.

Agreed. The West Indies had a lot more to be arrogant about, dominating world cricket for the previous 15 years, and were still pretty good throughout and up to 95. They had every right to be full of bravado

To compare Australia beating them in a One Day series is like me bragging about beating Geelong in the Wizard Cup, or whoever it was we beat this season in the NAB Cup (it's so irrelevant, I can't remember)

I think the club and team itself (Geelong) were no worse in their arrogance (real or perceived) than pretty well any other premiership team that I can recall

If anything, some fans were arrogant but hell, if I'd just won a premiership (without one for 40+ years, just like Geelong) then I'd be giving it to just about everyone too! Maybe not quite as much, but you get my point

 

[Geoffa32]

It often appears that way when one side is so much better than the rest, or two side in this years case.

Supporters of shit sides are always going to claim this sort of stuff.

When was the last time one side dominated and so many others were far from their best??

2007 was down to two sides Port and Geelong. In 2007 Port won 15 games in H and A to get second possie.

Collingwood tested the Cats. Prelim was game of the year.
WCE had internal problems, yet still made top four
Sydney around the mark, but in decline.
Crows got into 8 playing some of the worst and inconsistant footy at the club in a decade.
North made top four thrashed in two out of three finals
Hawks young up and comers. Won a close final, beating Adelaide who scrapped into the 8 thrashed by North in second.

2008, two standouts Hawks and Geelong. Daylight to rest of comp.

Sydney made the 8 won a final at home in "flood friendly" conditions.
Crows nearly made top four, cheifly due to easy wins against bottom 8 sides. Rarely beat a contender. Beaten in first week of September.
Saints. Had a good second half, failed in finals
North made the 8 got beat in first week
Collingwood. Made the 8 without two of its best players.
Bulldogs, never a real contender, nearly beat Geelong in its form slump of the year. Hawks finished the job.

Geelong have won 42/44 (or whatever it is) with no real forward line. A weakness that the Hawks exposed. yet their midfield and defence is good.
Finals series of 2008 was the most one sided in AFL era, with 26 points being the closest margin and that was on GF day.

Having so many AA in one side is a reflection of how poor the overall comp has been the past two years, with many teams in transition or decline.

07-08 is the period in which one club was good with the rest average. 2007 in particular and the GF result reflected that.

But a flag is still a good achievement whenever you win it. Like Hewitt being world number one for two years.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

When was the last time one side dominated and so many others were far from their best??

Every club does as best as it can, every year.

What is Adelaide's best? Flag winning form? In that case, every year they don't win a flag they aren't their best. There is only one flag winner every year.

How does Adelaide's flag in 1997 compare? The reigning premier North limped home in 7th with only 12 wins, the other GF team Sydney in 6th, Carlton 2 years after taking all before them didn't even make the finals. PRevious year high flyers Brisbane scraped into the finals, and Essendon didn't make them at all.

The 3 teams joining the Crows in the top 4 were St Kilda, Bulldogs and Geelong - none of whom had won a flag for 30+ years!

Is there somehow more credit given to Adelaide because they happened to get flogged by the Cats, Bulldogs, Lions, Richmond and Carlton that year, instead of beating them? No, I'm afraid not Geoffa.

Great teams put lesser sides away, and make them look like bad sides. They don't get beaten by them.

 

[i_hate_scams]

No because the Windies were number one for over a decade before their decline. They were also dominant in an era in which every other nation were playing decent cricket too.

The Cats are more like Lleyton Hewitt.

Best team in a lean period. 2007-08 is a transition period in AFL footy. Cats took advantage.

you are spot on.

the cats stole that flag last year. even our ratsh** team nearly beat them in the prelim last year i knew it was going to be a cheap flag. ie '93

at the right place at the right time i'll say.

 

[Geoffa32]

Adelaide were not the best team over those years.

They performed the best on September though, which is what our system rewards. In 1998 they came back from a flogging and were mentally strong enough to win the flag three weeks later.

Geelong were tested in two games over 44 matches. And failed when it counted. The Hawks finally provided Geelong with some competition on GF day. Collingwood could of if Shaw and Didak had not been suspended. The rest of the comp over the last two years has been substandard.

The Windies were tested many times over the 15 odd years of dominance. And passed more times than failed. That is my point.

To compare Geelong to the Great Windies era is an insult to the Windies. That is my point

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

you are spot on.

the cats stole that flag last year. even our ratsh** team nearly beat them in the prelim last year i knew it was going to be a cheap flag. ie '93

at the right place at the right time i'll say.

You were never going to win that game, your own Scott Burns came out and said as much. The benefit of Geelong having a week off and coming back out of touch, a greasy night, and a massive ride from the umpires meant it was a lot closer than it should have been.

 

[Geoffa32]

You were never going to win that game, your own Scott Burns came out and said as much. The benefit of Geelong having a week off and coming back out of touch, a greasy night, and a massive ride from the umpires meant it was a lot closer than it should have been.

Which proves the point that Geelong were an above average side in an average couple of seasons. They nearly lost to a Collingwood side that was not as good as their 02-03 sides.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Adelaide were not the best team over those years.

They performed the best on September though, which is what our system rewards. In 1998 they came back from a flogging and were mentally strong enough to win the flag three weeks later.

Geelong were tested in two games over 44 matches.

Easy to say now, but it's still a load of shit.

When you enter a finals series as favourites, had a 15 game winning streak, and your club hasn't won a flag for 40+ years, you are being tested every minute your are on the field.

When you come into a season as overwhelming favourites after winning a flag by a record margin, every game is a test.

Geelong were good enough to pass those tests, and put a few sides away to pass them emphatically. They then failed the final one.

If I wanted to be an arseh*le and denigrate another club's achievements, I would say Adelaide were tested time and again, and failed time and again. They got lucky in the right games.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Which proves the point that Geelong were an above average side in an average couple of seasons. They nearly lost to a Collingwood side that was not as good as their 02-03 sides.

You obviously didn't read the post you quoted.

By all means, go on about nearly losing to Collingwood in a prelim, but it's much more fun to read coming from a Pies supporter.

Which are the flags you believe clubs can really be proud of Geoffa?

 

[Empire_Persian]

Geelong will lose a few more games next year, but ultimately it will be stronger for it.

You learn alot from a loss. Winning only confirms a convenient formula for success. A productive win is that which is achieved under tough circumstances.

Example:

2005:
Sydney lose Prelim against West Coast
Sydney win Grand Final against West Coast

2006:
West Coast lose Prelim against Sydney
West Coast win Grand Final against Sydney

 

[Geoffa32]

You obviously didn't read the post you quoted.

By all means, go on about nearly losing to Collingwood in a prelim, but it's much more fun to read coming from a Pies supporter.

Which are the flags you believe clubs can really be proud of Geoffa?

All of them, you can only beat the teams that play against you.

Be interesting to see how the players handle the lose though. You can see that Scarlett and Mackie blamed the forwards kicking for the loss in the quotes since the GF. Considering the friction in 2006 could that resurface???

Port didnt handle their GF defeat well. But in October all the experts had them back in top four for 2009.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

2005:
Sydney lose Prelim against West Coast
Sydney win Grand Final against West Coast

2006:
West Coast lose Prelim against Sydney
West Coast win Grand Final against Sydney

Did you mean Qualifying Finals instead of Prelim?

 

[krudmonk]

Everyone hear bursts a vein when rugby league is mentioned and we're supposed to accept a comparison to cricket? How about darts and billiards next?

shit thread

 

[Paradox]

For shit's sake- you people just don't understand how much everything has to work to win a flag. Trying to discredit a premiership is just sour grapes.

Each premiership is worth as much as the next... even Port's.

Got over it bitches.

 

[skipjack]

Everyone hear bursts a vein when rugby league is mentioned and we're supposed to accept a comparison to cricket? How about darts and billiards next?

shit thread

Have a cry.

 

[krudmonk]

Have a cry.

I'll cry in your tea, bougie.

 

[Thrawn]

Have a cry.

Better to let it all out than to bottle it in. Bad things happen when you do...

 

[SellerIsCrap]

As much as I like to rub the GF loss into Cats fans for the fact that certain fans hung shit on my side after last years. My defence was we had a bad day and many Geelong supporters said good sides don't have bad days, especially not in GF's. Well cats fans now know what it feels like.

But in all seriousness, the Geelong side for the past year and a half has been nothing short of sensational, they have clearly been the best side for the last two years and one game has destroyed all that.
I rate Geelongs peak higher than the Essendons/Ports and Brisbanes between 00-04, Geelong were amazing when on song and some of the ways they destroyed sides was simply amazing.
I thought I would never see Footy at the same level from earlier this decade but I think Geelong would have been able to knock off the 3 sides above that I mentioned.