Geelong Sliding Doors

[Hinkley29]

His 1992 season was phenomenal. As was 93 and 94.

Stewart and enright are the best two half back flankers we have had (and possibly the two best the game has seen in the past 35 years). But at geelong hinkley for mine is clear next in line and then a gap with milburn, mansfield, bos, mackie, sholl next in line.

All Australian in 1991 and 1992.

B&F in 1992 and third in the Brownlow that year. In 1991 and 1992 he was among the best 10-15 players in the league.

Kenny’s career was short, but his peak was up there with the best players of his era.

To the poster who laughed at my previous post ( Footy_Fan2007 ), he was clearly a better player than Gaz and Billy at the time of the 1991 prelim. Gaz was a shell of himself in 1991 after un-retiring mid season and Billy never had a peak as good as Kenny’s run from 91 through 94.

 

[iameviljez]

His 1992 season was phenomenal. As was 93 and 94.

Stewart and enright are the best two half back flankers we have had (and possibly the two best the game has seen in the past 35 years). But at geelong hinkley for mine is clear next in line and then a gap with milburn, mansfield, bos, mackie, sholl next in line.

I don’t think Hinkley was quite the same in 93/94.

 

[Hinkley29]

I don’t think Hinkley was quite the same in 93/94.

I mostly agree with that.

But he had some games in 93 & 94 that were brilliant. His game in the 94 prelim was huge. He was an absolute key to our win, he obliterated McAdam and set up so many attacks.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Funny thing is I looked at the same list and felt meh

Nothing that changes the world but a couple of handy names

 

[Catsace]

Or in a similar vein, what if they either

a) had a 22 game season that year (everyone only played 20 games), or
b) They introduced the top 8 in 1993 instead of the following year.

We also played only once each the ghastly bottom three, Bears, Swans and Tiggers won a combined 9 of 60 games! Missed out on the top 6 by about 3%, with Gary Sr at his peak.

I also wonder, Rd 1 1997, Gary Sr plays the ressies, kicks 7 goals but does a partial tear of his ACL. But we lose the senior game by 8 points to Richmond, his absolute bunnies. We finish second again by a couple of percent, and instead of playing a weak 8th placed team, we play norf with Carey in slippery but not muddy conditions, perfect for 'Pagan's Paddock', and Carey's 7 goals sink us in the QF.

The loss to Freo in 2013 in the home final was just funereal, walking out of the ground it was just complete stunned silence.

But am I the only one who rued the horrid OOF kick by Allen Christensen early in the last quarter of the 2013 PF, Geelong up by 20 points and he had a completely free Harry Taylor to spot up for a chance for a goal. Sadly it goes down the other end, the Hawks goal, and they get their tails up. I don't really hold Varcoe's miss the same way, I felt we were out on our feet late in that game and the Hawks probably would have won extra time.

Of course, if Holmes didn't do a hammy in the PF last year as well.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

I mostly agree with that.

But he had some games in 93 & 94 that were brilliant. His game in the 94 prelim was huge. He was an absolute key to our win, he obliterated McAdam and set up so many attacks.

Cannot remember the year but the best game I seen Ken Hinkley play was down at Kardinia Park against the Pies (so it must have been a very, very, very long time ago) and he was playing on Darren Millane who was their best player in the 1990 final series in which the Pies won the flag. But on this day Ken Hinkley repeatedly beat Darren Millane in one-on-one contests which you don't see these days, gave him an absolute hiding of all hidings which is a fair indication of how good a footballer Ken Hinkley was, a brilliant player and footballer.

 

[winty]

We also played only once each the ghastly bottom three, Bears, Swans and Tiggers won a combined 9 of 60 games! Missed out on the top 6 by about 3%, with Gary Sr at his peak.

There are so many "what ifs" about that 1993 season. There was also a game against Fitzroy mid-way through the season where we were 8 goals up at half time, yet almost choked before ultimately winning by 7 or 8 points. Since we had missed the finals by percentage, would we have made it if we didn't take the foot off their throats in the second half?

I think the first time we played the Eagles we were well in front at one stage before they stormed home and pipped us too. Both those games proved costly.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

There are so many "what ifs" about that 1993 season. There was also a game against Fitzroy mid-way through the season where we were 8 goals up at half time, yet almost choked before ultimately winning by 7 or 8 points. Since we had missed the finals by percentage, would we have made it if we didn't take the foot off their throats in the second half?

I think the first time we played the Eagles we were well in front at one stage before they stormed home and pipped us too. Both those games proved costly.

End of home & away in 1993 we were the best team in it, that win against West Coast over in Subiaco in the last home & away for the year was enormous, the team was firing on all cylinders...... just a pity for reasons you have just mentioned but also other reasons that we missed making finals, we just lucked-out at the wrong time of year.

 

[My Tilly]

There are so many "what ifs" about that 1993 season. There was also a game against Fitzroy mid-way through the season where we were 8 goals up at half time, yet almost choked before ultimately winning by 7 or 8 points. Since we had missed the finals by percentage, would we have made it if we didn't take the foot off their throats in the second half?

I think the first time we played the Eagles we were well in front at one stage before they stormed home and pipped us too. Both those games proved costly.

The game against Essendon is the one they should have won. They were the better team throughout most of the day. Ablett kicked 14 goals and Salmon went down injured in the last quarter.
It was the move of Alessio to full forward in the last 10 minutes which swayed the outcome as he kicked 2 goals and it broke our backs.

Seriously, when your full forward kicks 14 goals, you should be winning the game no ifs or buts.

 

[Sttew]

Seriously, when your full forward kicks 14 goals, you should be winning the game no ifs or buts.

Agreed but when you allow the opposition full forward to kick 10…

Imagine if that Cats team had a Matthew Scarlett and Harry Taylor in defence

 

[Vdubs]

The game against Essendon is the one they should have won. They were the better team throughout most of the day. Ablett kicked 14 goals and Salmon went down injured in the last quarter.
It was the move of Alessio to full forward in the last 10 minutes which swayed the outcome as he kicked 2 goals and it broke our backs.

Seriously, when your full forward kicks 14 goals, you should be winning the game no ifs or buts.

Sheedy said, all they had to do was kick more goals than Ablett. 7-7 first half, 7-0 second half.

 

[Catman]

No way, you cannot ping a hammy yet again in the PF and start next week.

He didn't ping a hammy.

 

[iameviljez]

He didn't ping a hammy.

What did he do?

 

[Catman]

What did he do?

Maybe some cramping as he was struck down severely with gastro during the week and whether that played part. But my source assures me there was nothing wrong and had we won, he'd have been fine for the GF.

 

[Gordon Farkas]

Cannot remember the year but the best game I seen Ken Hinkley play was down at Kardinia Park against the Pies (so it must have been a very, very, very long time ago) and he was playing on Darren Millane who was their best player in the 1990 final series in which the Pies won the flag. But on this day Ken Hinkley repeatedly beat Darren Millane in one-on-one contests which you don't see these days, gave him an absolute hiding of all hidings which is a fair indication of how good a footballer Ken Hinkley was, a brilliant player and footballer.

It was the final round of 1991, was there as a young ‘un. Millane got an absolute bath. By the last quarter, Cats fans were giving Bronx cheers if he actually touched the ball. Even Pies fans were giving it to him. May have been injured as he looked genuinely lame. Turned out to be his last ever game as well. He had his own ‘sliding doors’ moment not long after.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

It was the final round of 1991, was there as a young ‘un. Millane got an absolute bath. By the last quarter, Cats fans were giving Bronx cheers if he actually touched the ball. Even Pies fans were giving it to him. May have been injured as he looked genuinely lame. Turned out to be his last ever game as well. He had his own ‘siding doors’ moment not long after.

Thanks so much GF for added info with final round 1991 and no I wasn't aware that it was Darren's last game either but yeah on Darren's own 'sliding door' moment of gigantic proportions..... it was pretty tragic what happened to Darren being intoxicated and killed in fatal car crash in the wee hours of morning.

 

[TheMenz Gallery]

It was the final round of 1991, was there as a young ‘un. Millane got an absolute bath. By the last quarter, Cats fans were giving Bronx cheers if he actually touched the ball. Even Pies fans were giving it to him. May have been injured as he looked genuinely lame. Turned out to be his last ever game as well. He had his own ‘siding doors’ moment not long after.

Guess what was uploaded to YouTube 4 days ago.

 

[Sttew]

Not sure if this name has been discussed - Stephen Michael. One of the greatest Australian Rules footballers never to play VFL. And it wasn’t for want of trying by the Cats. They had him signed up so that if he made the move east it would be to play for Geelong.

What might have been if a Michael made the move to Geelong? A premiership in the mid 80’s? Imagine Michael rucking to Greg Williams. Or Michael playing in the same team as Ablett Senior...

 

[My Tilly]

Not sure if this name has been discussed - Stephen Michael. One of the greatest Australian Rules footballers never to play VFL. And it wasn’t for want of trying by the Cats. They had him signed up so that if he made the move east it would be to play for Geelong.

What might have been if a Michael made the move to Geelong? A premiership in the mid 80’s? Imagine Michael rucking to Greg Williams. Or Michael playing in the same team as Ablett Senior...

That guy was a freak!
I have all the state of origin games he played in and he was eerily similar to Koutoufides or Goodes but as a ruckman.

 

[Hinkley29]

Not sure if this name has been discussed - Stephen Michael. One of the greatest Australian Rules footballers never to play VFL. And it wasn’t for want of trying by the Cats. They had him signed up so that if he made the move east it would be to play for Geelong.

What might have been if a Michael made the move to Geelong? A premiership in the mid 80’s? Imagine Michael rucking to Greg Williams. Or Michael playing in the same team as Ablett Senior...

Stephen Michael was an absolute champion. I saw him play many times, and he always tormented my Garlic Munchers.

But, he was an undersized ruckman who relied on amazing athleticism, leap and footy smarts. He was ideally suited to WAFL footy of those times - dry, hard grounds, and no semblance of defence being played. I went to many games back in those days when a team kicked 20 goals and lost by 5+ goals. It was great to watch. He also had a few enforcers (Basil Campbell immediately springs to mind) that projected him from being targeted physically by other teams. Michael was no shrinking violet- he could handle himself - but he was set up to succeed in the WAFL.

He played at 188cm and 90kgs.

My point being - I don’t know how his game would have translated to the VFL with boggy grounds, wet weather footy and a far more physical style of play. I just don’t know if he would have been a successful ruckman in those conditions against mammoths like Dempsey, Mark Lee, Round, etc.

In today’s footy he would be an elite big bodied midfielder. Think Cripps but better overhead.

 

[rapidfire7]

Throughout their history, Geelong have been a poor finals team. It's almost part of their DNA. Even when they have had some of the most magnificent teams, they rarely capitalise to the level that they should in finals.

Blew 1953 & 1954 when they were the best team in it. Should have won 4 in a row, or at least 3.

Only 1 flag in the 1960s despite sustained excellence and 8 consecutive finals appearances.

Zero flags in the 90 despite breaking many records and having some of the greatest players in our history.

Only 1 flag post 2011 despite finishing in the top 4 almost every year.

Compare stats like that with teams like the Hawks, Tigers, Demons, Bombers & Blues. They make the most of their periods of dominance. We do not!

A few mind boggling stats..

Geelong have played in 2 more fiinals matches than Essendon throughout their history (134 to 132), yet have 6 less premierships.

Geelong have played in 40 more finals matches than Richmond (and in 26 more finals series) for 5 less grand finals and 3 less flags.

Geelong have also played in 40 more finals matches (and 20 more finals series)
than Melbourne for 3 less Premierships.

Geelong have also played in 46 more finals matches (and 26 more finals series) than Hawthorn for 3 less Premierships.

In short, Geelong has always seemed to do things the hard way. Whilst many other teams rise to greater levels come finals time, we have more often than not faltered when it matters most.

AFL Tables - Team Win-Loss Records

AFL Premierships

www.wheeloratings.com

 

[Mr Meow]

Throughout their history, Geelong have been a poor finals team. It's almost part of their DNA. Even when they have had some of the most magnificent teams, they rarely capitalise to the level that they should in finals.

Blew 1953 & 1954 when they were the best team in it. Should have won 4 in a row, or at least 3.

Only 1 flag in the 1960s despite sustained excellence and 8 consecutive finals appearances.

Zero flags in the 90 despite breaking many records and having some of the greatest players in our history.

Only 1 flag post 2011 despite finishing in the top 4 almost every year.

Compare stats like that with teams like the Hawks, Tigers, Demons, Bombers & Blues. They make the most of their periods of dominance. We do not!

A few mind boggling stats..

Geelong have played in 2 more fiinals matches than Essendon throughout their history (134 to 132), yet have 6 less premierships.

Geelong have played in 40 more finals matches than Richmond (and in 26 more finals series) for 5 less grand finals and 3 less flags.

Geelong have also played in 40 more finals matches (and 20 more finals series)
than Melbourne for 3 less Premierships.

Geelong have also played in 46 more finals matches (and 26 more finals series) than Hawthorn for 3 less Premierships.

In short, Geelong has always seemed to do things the hard way. Whilst many other teams rise to greater levels come finals time, we have more often than not faltered when it matters most.

AFL Tables - Team Win-Loss Records

AFL Premierships

www.wheeloratings.com

The true mark of relative finals underperformance would be having a lot more 1st placed H&A finishes than premierships. I don't have the stats for H&A 1st place finishes. Otherwise for instance bowing out in prelims or even grand finals when finishing 3rd or below isn't underperformance. You will win, lose and play more finals finishing 2nd-4th than 6th-8th but it doesn't mean teams finishing 6th-8th have been better finals performers. And losing a grand final isn't really underachieving unless you finished minor premiers.

A couple of other teams having a very positive ratio for premierships compared to 1st place H&A finishes wouldn't make Geelong underperformers, it just means they have done very well in that area (different if more teams had done it). For whatever reason minor premiers have often struggled to capitalise though, which is one of the very odd quirks of our game.

 

[Hinkley29]

The true mark of relative finals underperformance would be having a lot more 1st placed H&A finishes than premierships. I don't have the stats for H&A 1st place finishes. Otherwise for instance bowing out in prelims or even grand finals when finishing 3rd or below isn't underperformance. You will win, lose and play more finals finishing 2nd-4th than 6th-8th but it doesn't mean teams finishing 6th-8th have been better finals performers. And losing a grand final isn't really underachieving unless you finished minor premiers.

A couple of other teams having a very positive ratio for premierships compared to 1st place H&A finishes wouldn't make Geelong underperformers, it just means they have done very well in that area (different if more teams had done it). For whatever reason minor premiers have often struggled to capitalise though, which is one of the very odd quirks of our game.

Finals win loss record is a useless stat.

For example, this year Geelong went 1 and 1 in the finals, so did Hawthorn. I know who had a better finals series and was closer to a flag.

Unless you count a finals week off as a win, the w/l stat in finals is useless.

 

[Mr Meow]

Finals win loss record is a useless stat.

For example, this year Geelong went 1 and 1 in the finals, so did Hawthorn. I know who had a better finals series and was closer to a flag.

Unless you count a finals week off as a win, the w/l stat in finals is useless.

Yeah pretty much. Mine was just a lazy top down view approach but it would still be flawed. Total finals for premierships even worse.

Geelong suffer in a lot of these comparisons by being the 3rd or 4th best team in the comp many years.

 

[Gordon Farkas]

Not sure if this name has been discussed - Stephen Michael. One of the greatest Australian Rules footballers never to play VFL. And it wasn’t for want of trying by the Cats. They had him signed up so that if he made the move east it would be to play for Geelong.

What might have been if a Michael made the move to Geelong? A premiership in the mid 80’s? Imagine Michael rucking to Greg Williams. Or Michael playing in the same team as Ablett Senior...

We had him signed to us for years under the old “Form 4” regime and came very close.

Would have been as big - or bigger - than Bosustow, Rioli, the Krakouers, or Kernahan in terms of big 1980s interstate recruits had we got him.

From the man himself:

“With his considerable success at WAFL and State level, his profile as one of the best ruckmen in Australia saw VFL clubs keen to lure him east. Geelong were the frontrunners, but for Michael his loyalty was with his family and not necessarily the glory of a VFL contract:"Geelong were very, very close. I went over to Geelong and we went out to some bloke's farm for a BBQ in the middle of winter. He was trying to convince me to come over to Geelong and it was pouring rain. Geelong were good to me but my family was my main thing and sport came second. I just thought it would take mum and dad four hours to fly to Melbourne and it only takes two to drive from Kojonup."

Stephen Michael

OzFooty.net Western Australian Football League, WAFL, AFL and A-league

ozfooty.net