Genuine Key Defenders

[Two Planks]

James Frawley would be the feelgood story to go to the home of his uncle.

Hard to know what Melbourne would want (draft picks, young players or experienced players)
Probably would want midfielders of any age but doubt any saints players would want to go their unless for excess cash. i.e. Dal Santo and Montagna if the got paid $600k +

 

[Turbocat]

James Frawley would be the feelgood story to go to the home of his uncle.

Hard to know what Melbourne would want (draft picks, young players or experienced players)
Probably would want midfielders of any age but doubt any saints players would want to go their unless for excess cash. i.e. Dal Santo and Montagna if the got paid $600k +

Melbourne is a no win zone. It appear no one wants to stay, no one wants to come etc. The only thing that changes that is quality and time. Just like Gold Coast now , Id say quite a few players would see GC on the way up and would be a lot more willing to go to the Suns

So its tough for Melbourne , there Port of desperation , the last call motel. They either have to pay obscene amounts to get some good senior afl players or you get fringe dwellers on the last legs or in facts never had legs. They need 5 senior players of worth , and more if they could get them.
Why they didn't chase Lower types I have no idea


So to trade Frawley willingly , it would have to be a mega advantageous deal , and Saints arn't dipped in gold themselves atm.

 

[Yoda_]

If your are going to go after mediocre players you are always to going to be mediocre. In the view of Mick Malthouse, why bring in a player if he won't get you to a premiership.

Whilst, I'm not sure what Carlisle's contract status is, why wouldn't St Kilda just throw as much money as they can at him. Surely, they have much greater space in their cap than essendon.

Hooker is best 22 but reachable, Carlisle is simply untouchable IMO.

didnt we hear this exact same thing this time last year??
wasnt he the next chris mew first half of last year...

When your midfield breaks down defensively your backs get exposed. Not Cale's fault the ball was coming in with ridiculous ease.

Top 5 (might even still be leading the comp) in intercept marks is evidence enough he is one of our best players

Just sayin'

 

[Yoda_]

It doesn't matter if its Carlisle or someone else. You examine other clubs' lists, you identify a player that meets your needs and is coming off contract and offer him more money then his present club can afford. The only time you should be trading for an average talent, is if he is a particular role player that your club requires, there has been a lot of past ordinary premiership players. It doesn't make sense, however, to offer good picks for other clubs cast-offs, if your doing this then you are better off using the draft. Why for example, did the saints trade for Dennis Lane last year; firstly, he's ordinary and secondly, you already have plenty of half-forwards and forward pockets.

In addition, to which being on contract didn't stop the saints getting into Brown's head last season with a view to transferring across.

This isn't FIFA13!!

 

[getgaff]

Mitch Brown our best KPD on the outer. My opinion is i'd hate to see him go because he's the perfect replacement for Glass but the opportunities for regular senior footy at the Saints if he can stay fit is endless, plus the chance to go home.

Was close to becoming a Saint at end of last year

 

[aussierulesrules]

Mitch Brown our best KPD on the outer. My opinion is i'd hate to see him go because he's the perfect replacement for Glass but the opportunities for regular senior footy at the Saints if he can stay fit is endless, plus the chance to go home.

Was close to becoming a Saint at end of last year

Given that you already have Mackenzie and Schofield (both 196cm), I wouldn't have thought it would be a massive priority to retain Brown (195cm), because the other two are plenty big enough and able to handle the "KPF's", so you probably only need a "3rd tall", like a Pears or a Gwilt, or a Gilbert (any of whom you could potentially get in the Brown trade), to compliment them, rather than another really big unit like Brown (which would give you 3 in your backline who are 195cm+, which may be a bit much).

If you did lose Brown, you would most likely need to get someone similar to him as back-up in case one or both of Mackenzie and Schofield got injured though. That's probably where losing Brown might hurt the most, if he were to leave.

A lot of it will probably come down to whether Glass goes around again. If he does, I think you have buckleys of retaining Brown, as he won't want to be the 4th wheel again.

 

[getgaff]

Given that you already have Mackenzie and Schofield (both 196cm), I wouldn't have thought it would be a massive priority to retain Brown (195cm), because the other two are plenty big enough and able to handle the "KPF's", so you probably only need a "3rd tall", like a Pears or a Gwilt, or a Gilbert (any of whom you could potentially get in the Brown trade), to compliment them, rather than another really big unit like Brown (which would give you 3 in your backline who are 195cm+, which may be a bit much).

If you did lose Brown, you would most likely need to get someone similar to him as back-up in case one or both of Mackenzie and Schofield got injured though. That's probably where losing Brown might hurt the most, if he were to leave.

A lot of it will probably come down to whether Glass goes around again. If he does, I think you have buckleys of retaining Brown, as he won't want to be the 4th wheel again.

If push came to shove would rather lose Schofield than Brown. Schofield more of a 3rd tall option in my books. Has been shown up on the big forwards in the past. Gilbert for Brown or Schofield would be interesting but. Obviously needs something extra ordinary to get that deal over the line but

If we were to lose Brown/ Glass, Pears would be ideal. Was already interested in getting him before the last time he re - signed when he was out of favour at the Bombers

Like you said but a lot does depend on Glass because Brown like Koby Stevens from last year will seek opportunities elsewhere although the way his playing at the moment he is ahead of Schofield at selection

 

[SydneyPhilly]

The only one the Swans would possibly offer is Alex Brown, who's a little on the short side, and a little finesse. Sorry Saints.

 

[blaze036]

any chance Keeffe could find himself on the market?

keeffe would be on the market for the right price, with brown reid and frost as backup we would let him go if we thought the trade looked good. Possibly for a fast outside midfielder or fast medium defender

 

[blaze036]

Michael Hartley any good? Genuinely?

Hartley will struggle to get another year on our list, has done nothing in his 2 years and has extremely worrying shoulder problems (quiet a few surgeries already). He was a very speculative pick and would be worth very little (if anything).

I would say a 3rd round upgrade would get it done, he is very 1 dimensional and has NO rebound game. He is just a less athletic frost with crippled shoulders

 

[aussierulesrules]

keeffe would be on the market for the right price. Possibly for a fast medium defender

Sold.



194cm, but is super quick for his height and also extremely agile, with his rugby sidestep. Can play both tall and small, can also play wing, or even in the guts and of course can be swung forward, as he was in the 2010 GF's. Came 3rd in our B&F that year at the age of 23/24. We're overflowing with HBF/BP options (hence playing him mostly on the wing and on the ball before his injury this year) and I think we'd be perfectly willing to trade him for someone that would fill the hole we have at FB/CHB. His tackling is also ferocious, coming from the rugby background and having those long arms. His kicking can be a concern obviously, but he has tidied that up considerably since about half way through last season.

 

[blaze036]

Sold.

Oh god what have i done

Bucks told me to stop trading our players online






Seriously though, at 194cm i wouldn't put Gilbert in the "medium" category, he is a tall and hasn't have the line breaking speed that we would be after

 

[aussierulesrules]

Seriously though, at 194cm i wouldn't put Gilbert in the "medium" category, he is a tall and hasn't have the line breaking speed that we would be after

I've added a bit more to that post since I first posted it, including mentioning that he is seriously quick for his height and that he can play on genuine "smalls", as well as "mediums" and rarely plays on "talls" these days (although he can play on the more athletic types, like Sydney's Sam Reid, who he made to look pretty ordinary earlier in the year). I would definitely consider him to be a "medium" (especially these days, where he's played a fair bit on the wing in the past two seasons) who just happens to be relatively tall, although he is extremely adaptable to many varying roles all over the field.

He would be one of the quickest (and most agile) on our list without a doubt (hence being given the tagging job on Judd in the past, when Judd was still super-quick) and it was his line-breaking (to go with his intercept marking), off HB, that that saw him getting regularly tagged from about the middle point of that 2010 season, when he was at his peak (at only 23yo).

He was basically our version of Harry O (who made the AA team that year), who was playing an almost identical role, but with significantly worse stats than Sam in many areas for that season (like kicks, handballs, marks, contested marks, clearances, contested possessions): http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...66&type=T&fid1=P&fopt1=2010&fid2=P&fopt2=2010

After an excellent couple of years it all fell apart from him in the offseason following that 2010 season (all that stuff with the "St Kilda Schoolgirl" and the nude photo's that he didn't delete), but he looked to be getting his mojo back before he got injured earlier this year, after hitting rock bottom early last season (when he was apparently playing with a significant back problem). You could do a hell of a lot worse than him, especially if you were to get him back to the sort of footy he was playing when he was 22/23/24yo, when he was looking like he was going to have a ripper career. Getting him would also enable you to play Harry O off the wing almost exclusively, if you wanted to.

It could be a win-win for both teams, especially if you don't necessarily have room for Lachie in your team.

 

[blaze036]

I've added a bit more to that post since I first posted it, including mentioning that he is seriously quick for his height and that he can play on genuine "smalls", as well as "mediums" and rarely plays on "talls" these days (although he can play on the more athletic types, like Sydney's Sam Reid, who he made to look pretty ordinary earlier in the year). I would definitely consider him to be a "medium" (especially these days, where he's played a fair bit on the wing in the past two seasons) who just happens to be relatively tall.

He would be one of the quickest (and most agile) on our list without a doubt (hence being given the tagging job on Judd in the past, when Judd was still super-quick) and it was his line-breaking (to go with his intercept marking), off HB, that that saw him getting regularly tagged from about the middle point of that 2010 season, when he was at his peak (at only 23yo). He was basically our version of Harry O (who made the AA team that year), who was playing an almost identical role, but with significantly worse stats in many areas for that season (like kicks, handballs, marks, contested marks, clearances, contested possessions): http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...66&type=T&fid1=P&fopt1=2010&fid2=P&fopt2=2010

It all fell apart from him in the offseason following that 2010 season (all that stuff with the "St Kilda Schoolgirl" and the nude photo's that he didn't delete), but he looked to be getting his mojo back before he got injured earlier this year. You could do a hell of a lot worse than him, especially if you were to get him back to the sort of footy he was playing when he was 22/23/24yo, when he was looking like he was going to have a ripper career. Getting him would also enable you to play Harry O off the wing almost exclusively, if you wanted to.

Gilbert isn't the worst option, Keeffe for gilbert would probably be a pretty fair trade. However Collingwood has no reason to do it, it doesn't fill a need for us or give us an upgrade.

For this reason the Saints would need to throw in something else to get it over the line, as it stands we don't gain much so there is no reason to do it, whilst the saints really need it. Maybe a 2nd round pick as well, might seem unfair but Collingwood needs an incentive to trade and knows the saints will be desperate

 

[aussierulesrules]

Fair enough. I wouldn't be opposed to throwing in something extra to get it done (in fact I expect it would be necessary and fair), as long as Lachie's knee was coming along well. Gilbo at his best is bloody good though, and he was genuinely outstanding in 2010, when he was at his peak (and only just about to turn 24yo) and he is about as versatile as they come (and comes with loads of finals experience), but we just have too many who are best suited to the HBF, or BP (or even wing), so that's why I think we'd be willing to let him go, especially with the very similarly built Dylan Roberton (also 194cm, but who also plays more as a "medium/tall" rather than a genuine "KPD") coming in and doing so well this year.

We simply won't have room for all of Gilbo, Fisher, Gwilt, Roberton and Dempster (who are all too good to be playing VFL) back there, if we add a Keefe or a Mitch Brown (especially if Rhys Stanley is playing back there as well), especially if we're wanting to continue to get games into the likes of Nathan Wright, Jimmy Webster and Brodie Murdoch back there, not to mention Geary! 11 into 6 just isn't going to work, so someone is likely going to need to be traded out of that group, if we get a Keefe/Brown/Frawley.

 

[blaze036]

Fair enough. I wouldn't be opposed to throwing in something extra to get it done (in fact I expect it would be necessary and fair), as long as Lachie's knee was coming along well. Gilbo at his best is bloody good though, and he was genuinely outstanding in 2010, when he was at his peak (and only just about to turn 24yo) and he is about as versatile as they come (and comes with loads of finals experience), but we just have too many who are best suited to the HBF, or BP (or even wing), so that's why I think we'd be willing to let him go, especially with the very similarly built Dylan Roberton (also 194cm, but who also plays more as a "medium/tall" rather than a genuine "KPD") coming in and doing so well this year.

We simply won't have room for all of Gilbo, Fisher, Gwilt, Roberton and Dempster (who are all too good to be playing VFL) back there, if we add a Keefe or a Mitch Brown (especially if Rhys Stanley is playing back there as well), especially if we're wanting to continue to get games into the likes of Nathan Wright, Jimmy Webster and Brodie Murdoch back there, not to mention Geary! 11 into 6 just isn't going to work, so someone is likely going to need to be traded out of that group, if we get a Keefe/Brown/Frawley.

I would take the trade for a 2010 gilbert in a heartbeat, but he hasn't been that good over the past 3 season for memory.

His knee is coming along well and has had 2 games back in the VFL (would of been more had he had injured his kidney) will probably be up for senior selection in a few weeks.

A trade of this variety is always going to end in collingwoods favor, as the saints are desperate and Collingwood would be happy for no trade to happen. The ball is firmly in your court.

 

[Barrels]

Another KPD from me: Scott Simpson

Formerly listed by Geelong as a KPF, turns 24 years old in October, 196cm and 92+kg. delisted by the Cats in 2009 after a shocking run of injuries - no doubt having struggled to get in front of Nathan Ablett, Tom Hawkins, Cameron Mooney. Spent two years with Mt Eliza down in the MPNFL before having a crack with Frankston. Made the VFL State squad (ahead of my boy Sully ) and apparently murdered Sandringham yesterday down back as a KPD.

Draft Camp results from the end of 2007:

Draft Camp
Height - 195.60cm
Weight - 92.10kg
5m Spint - 1.19
20m Sprint - 3.16
Agility - 8.85
Shuttle - 14.3
Verticle Jump - 56
Repeat Sprints - 26.21

Not the quickest bloke, but a great size and good tank. Draft profiles consistently mentioned his 'sticky hands'. Would arguably be ready to go straight away. Thoughts?

Now Saad isn't a giant at 175cm, but just look at the height difference there... He'd be forced to lose the porno chin fuzz if it were my call though...

 

[Ants]

If your are going to go after mediocre players you are always to going to be mediocre. In the view of Mick Malthouse, why bring in a player if he won't get you to a premiership.

Whilst, I'm not sure what Carlisle's contract status is, why wouldn't St Kilda just throw as much money as they can at him. Surely, they have much greater space in their cap than essendon.

Because you sometimes need to fill a role and draft picks tend to be over-rated. Hooker is probably solid for 7-8 years. You may not want him as your #1 defender, but he's a lock to hold one of the two tall spots.

But the main reason is because people over-value draft picks. Look at tall defenders who went in say the 16 odd to 24 odd range a few years ago (2006 to 2008). You have M Brown, Notte, Taylor, Rance, Pears, Schoenmakers & Trengove. Sure, you may get Taylor, and there are others ahead of Hooker, but there are an awful lot of misses and guys who five years later are struggling to play in the first 22. Getting someone who can just hold the role and allow you to concentrate on other slots can be worth it. Its like WCE using pick #8 on Chick who played back pocket in the GF. #8 may appear overs, but it filled the role and as it turned out avoided them drafting Luke Brennan!

 

[The Finger]

Bathie from Geelong wouldnt be a bad option. Comes from the Geelong system and has played good footy as a key back.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Luke Delaney (195cm, 99kg) is absolutely killing them in the VFL. Luke knocked back another club to stay with Cameron at North. Cam Delaney (194cm, 91kg) is considered top shelf and would take a big offer to get a deal done. A club would likely have to make an offer for the pair of them.

Ayden Kennedy (192cm, 92kg) also keeps delivering but is more of a tweener who could play as a second KPD..

 

[Yoda_]

Because you sometimes need to fill a role and draft picks tend to be over-rated. Hooker is probably solid for 7-8 years. You may not want him as your #1 defender, but he's a lock to hold one of the two tall spots.

But the main reason is because people over-value draft picks. Look at tall defenders who went in say the 16 odd to 24 odd range a few years ago (2006 to 2008). You have M Brown, Notte, Taylor, Rance, Pears, Schoenmakers & Trengove. Sure, you may get Taylor, and there are others ahead of Hooker, but there are an awful lot of misses and guys who five years later are struggling to play in the first 22. Getting someone who can just hold the role and allow you to concentrate on other slots can be worth it. Its like WCE using pick #8 on Chick who played back pocket in the GF. #8 may appear overs, but it filled the role and as it turned out avoided them drafting Luke Brennan!

My thoughts (re trading talks) has right now been wavered after reading this post.

Thanks Ants

 

[Dan12]

Luke Delaney (195cm, 99kg) is absolutely killing them in the VFL. Luke knocked back another club to stay with Cameron at North. Cam Delaney (194cm, 91kg) is considered top shelf and would take a big offer to get a deal done. A club would likely have to make an offer for the pair of them.

Ayden Kennedy (192cm, 92kg) also keeps delivering but is more of a tweener who could play as a second KPD..

I am pretty sure that other club was Brisbane. To be honest if GWS or St. Kilda tried and get both of them I wouldn't be surprised. Pick 4 for the Delaneys (St. Kilda)? Pick 10 and pick 20 (GWS) for the pair?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Pick 4 for the Delaneys (St. Kilda)? Pick 10 and pick 20 (GWS) for the pair?

Who knows? I wouldn't.

Pick 4 and Dal will get a FB/CHB combination for the next decade and allow North to pick up a short term quality mid that they badly need and another quality player to compliment McDonald.

Personally not interested in the GWS thing. We need ready to go types. 10 & 20 usually take a while.

 

[aussierulesrules]

While it would be great to fill FB and CHB long term, I don't see us offering up as much as pick 4/5 and Dal for those two. No way Jose. I reckon we'd be much better off going for Mitch Brown again this year and then having an almighty crack at James Frawley if/when he is available through FA next year.

If we manage to add one "gorilla" back there this year that will be a good start, considering we'll probably still have Fisher, Stanley (who goes very well on the thinner, more athletic types, like your Jeremy Cameron's and Sam Reid's, who he did very well on earlier in the year), plus Gwilt (who regularly plays "tall", sometimes on those 15cm taller than him!) and Roberton and Gilbert, who are both 194cm and while lightly built can also play on "3rd talls".

 

[James Robertson]

swanny