Grant Birchall returns after 2 years out...

[Chubberson]

There isn't really a place for pseudo morality in list management which is why no one on BF will ever do it. I will say this, if Birch doesn't get right this season, it will be his last. As good as he has been when fit, this is probably his last season unless he gets back to his best which was 6-7 years ago. His last couple of seasons he actually played you could see he was on the slide/not right

 

[COKEandCOLA]

If we see Birch play some decent consistent footy this year it will be a big bonus.

(I have cancelled him out in my thoughts)

If his body continues to fail him we will see a mid season retirement.

He very well may never play another game, but it's all about how the situation is handled.

As a club do we kick him in the backside and out the door, or do we give him every opportunity to see his career out with dignity and respect?

I'm more than sure the club is choosing the latter, but what about it's supporters?

We're not Norf or St Kilda supporters, maybe we should act like it.

 

[Brant]

We're not in the U.S though and I fail to fathom how people can complain and take a stance against our great game being Americanized, but then totally contradict themselves by using the U.S as a precedent.

Not directed as you personally, your post was just a sample of what I'm talking about.

Also, while yes the sporting clubs in the U.S have more power, so do the players.

It's got to the point where everyone involved is mercenary like, do we really want to do that here?

Another consideration in the comparison with US sports is the $,000.

Birch was an integral part in one the most successful sides our game has seen. Equivalent in the US: he’d be on at least $10,000,000 per year. He’s been with us more than 10x years, so let’s say (in the US) he’d have earnt at least $50,000,000 by now, over his career. Plus sponsorship dollars.

And, given that he’s effectively been out for 2 years, we might say that he’s sat around for $20,000,000. Even if a US Sportsman is the dumbest person on Earth (off-field) & never earns another cent, $20,000,000 is plenty (for any real person) to set themselves up for retirement; especially, given that they’ve already earned $30,000,000 over the previous 8x years.

It’s a lot easier to approach a guy & suggest a pay-out/retirement under those circumstances.

Let’s say Birch is on $600k & we did approach him & suggest he hangs up the boots. He quickly plots out the next 60yrs of his life & realises that 2x seasons at $600k probably won’t even get him a house in the suburb he wants to live in...

I don’t think the US comparison is helpful, unless supporting reasons why Birchall wouldn’t consider retiring early.

 

[COKEandCOLA]

Another consideration in the comparison with US sports is the $,000.

Birch was an integral part in one the most successful sides our game has seen. Equivalent in the US: he’d be on at least $10,000,000 per year. He’s been with us more than 10x years, so let’s say (in the US) he’d have earnt at least $50,000,000 by now, over his career. Plus sponsorship dollars.

And, given that he’s effectively been out for 2 years, we might say that he’s sat around for $20,000,000. Even if a US Sportsman is the dumbest person on Earth (off-field) & never earns another cent, $20,000,000 is plenty (for any real person) to set themselves up for retirement; especially, given that they’ve already earned $30,000,000 over the previous 8x years.

It’s a lot easier to approach a guy & suggest a pay-out/retirement under those circumstances.

Let’s say Birch is on $600k & we did approach him & suggest he hangs up the boots. He quickly plots out the next 60yrs of his life & realises that 2x seasons at $600k probably won’t even get him a house in the suburb he wants to live in...

I don’t think the US comparison is helpful, unless supporting reasons why Birchall wouldn’t consider retiring early.

A very appropriate and valid point also, it's like a drop in the ocean in comparison.

Maybe people should put the pitchforks away and not get so worked up.

It's all good and fine to have an opinion, but is there really any need to get so venomous because of it?

Anyway, like I said from the start, I just hope that the bloke manages to get himself right and remind us all as supporters what we've been missing in his absence.

If however he can't, then unfortunately that may very well be all she wrote.

 

[Milkshaker]

The club must still see a place for Birchall? He is going on 32 and as much as I wanted to see him run around again our future now is kids.

 

[COKEandCOLA]

The club must still see a place for Birchall? He is going on 32 and as much as I wanted to see him run around again our future now is kids.

Personally, if he's unable to get back on the park, I'd like to see him being placed in a development role for the younger defenders.

If think he'd be fantastic and it'd be a clear win-win.

Just my thoughts though.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

It's a fine line with Birchall.

I think he is cooked and won't play again, but there is a small chance that he returns and plays until he is 36. Since the body is fresh after years of doing **** all, i really hope he can just get the ****ing thing fixed.

 

[yeahmate]

Birchall has been a great player but if he cant get on the park then its time to retire, just like many great champions before him. Theres no comparison to a normal workplace here, he's not still there because of any compassion or legal obligation, club has obviously taken a punt he will recover but if he doesn't play a majority of games this year then he and the club need to put the team first and call it a day. Fingers crossed for him.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You are spot on... people become personal because they can't accept opposing views, we have a board full of Richard Di natales.

This is not personal with Birch but he hasn't contributed for a long time, has taken a large chunk of salary which we could have used.

The yanks don't give players 2 years even, you're being generous just for this discussion. Birch has been given all the time in the world, he should have put his hand up and moved himself on.

Just to prove I mean it when I wish politics would stay off the board, I had to look up who Richard di Natali was.

 

[TheFourPillars]

NEWSFLASH: Birch and Scully seen in Hawthorn intra today. They are in full training. Both should be out there for the hawks within the first 5 rounds barring any setbacks

 

[tommyk72]

NEWSFLASH: Birch and Scully seen in Hawthorn intra today. They are in full training. Both should be out there for the hawks within the first 5 rounds barring any setbacks

Great news. Any further insights from the intra to come!?!?

 

[Carl Spackler]

NEWSFLASH: Birch and Scully seen in Hawthorn intra today. They are in full training. Both should be out there for the hawks within the first 5 rounds barring any setbacks

What? Not possible. Birchall is a $600k freeloader and Scully’s hair is too short.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Great news. Any further insights from the intra to come!?!?

Exciting part was Scully lining up on Smithy and birch getting his hands on it after the first bounce

 

[tommyk72]

Exciting part was Scully lining up on Smithy and birch getting his hands on it after the first bounce

1.2 million per possession.

 

[Brant]

1.2 million per possession.

About the same for Tom Boyd at footscray...

 

[COKEandCOLA]

About the same for Tom Boyd at footscray...

The funny thing is that you're right, the guy is a joke and the only salvation they have, is that he played a half decent finals series in their premiership year.

I remember taking my partner to the Round 3 match, when we played them in 2016 and we were sitting right on the fence at center wing.

He marked the ball right in front of me and I said "make sure you kick a goal and earn your $1M a year sunshine, you're not going to do much else for the year " to which his response was to kick it out on the full.

It was actually a really good game until the last couple of minutes.

Even though we won, I felt we all lost.

 

[play2win]

part of the hawks list management strategy is to look after injured players. we ask so much of our star players (like getting underpaid etc.), and in times like this we return the favour, show some loyalty and look after their best interests as people and not make decisions solely through economic rationalism. we wouldn't be viewed as a destination club otherwise.

 

[Brishawk]

Let’s say Birchall is in 600k this season. And at the end of last season tige was list manager and offers to pay out the 600k. This means that instead of having 600k space free to bring forward form 2019 into 2018 we now need to pay it in 2019 meaning the net difference to the 2019 salary cap is zero. So unless we could have known two years ago that he wasn’t going to play much in the following two years then our situation is virtually the same. We already used our trade resources brining in elite talent. And we will be aware of birchall’s Prospects for 2020 by the end of his year so on the list so our plans for offseason trading will not be impacted by his fitness in the past two seasons. But hey, why not whinge about hypothetical solutions to problems that don’t stack up in reality?

 

[Kinghts 24]

I love Birch, i reckon he epitomizes so much that is great about our Club. 4 Premierships is rare enough but add to that dependable, humble, hard working and loyal.

What about this - great organizations do great things to look after great people.

Birch is one of our greats and deserves to be looked after and given whatever time he and the Club sees fit. That's what great organizations do. Do you think Apple would chuck out one of it's best programmers if he broke his arm? Nope.

Long live the Birch!

 

[COKEandCOLA]

I love Birch, i reckon he's epitomizes so much that is great about our Club. 4 Premierships is rare enough but add to that dependable, humble, hard working and loyal.

What about this - great organizations do great things to look after great people.

Birch is one of our greats and deserves to be looked after and given whatever time he and the Club sees fit. That's what great organizations do. Do you think Apple would chuck out one of it's best programmers if he broke his arm? Nope.

Long live the Birch!

This guy gets it!

 

[PhatHQ]

We're not in the U.S though and I fail to fathom how people can complain and take a stance against our great game being Americanized, but then totally contradict themselves by using the U.S as a precedent.

Not directed as you personally, your post was just a sample of what I'm talking about.

Also, while yes the sporting clubs in the U.S have more power, so do the players.

It's got to the point where everyone involved is mercenary like, do we really want to do that here?

Absolutely! Guns for hire & the best in the business stay on top.
Business being the key word.
I have followed the Philly eagles for a decade & I think a heart part of the journey has been watching Howie Roseman weave his magic & the prospect of who is available at the right price.
There will always be one club players but equalisation, salary cap, drafting, coaching & culture should always win out when winning premierships.
To have a long term injury with someone on a largish salary carried while on the sidelines only takes away from the playing group.
Say Cyril & Birch both retired or were restructured befo last season; the door was open for for even bigger trades or locking away our own on longer contracts enabling more flexibility to draft & trade.
I’m not saying anything that hasn’t been said before but I like a “gun for hire” & the idea of more player movement.
Much more fun than a 20m goal square or last touch out of bounds free kicks.

 

[COKEandCOLA]

Absolutely! Guns for hire & the best in the business stay on top.
Business being the key word.
I have followed the Philly eagles for a decade & I think a heart part of the journey has been watching Howie Roseman weave his magic & the prospect of who is available at the right price.
There will always be one club players but equalisation, salary cap, drafting, coaching & culture should always win out when winning premierships.
To have a long term injury with someone on a largish salary carried while on the sidelines only takes away from the playing group.
Say Cyril & Birch both retired or were restructured befo last season; the door was open for for even bigger trades or locking away our own on longer contracts enabling more flexibility to draft & trade.
I’m not saying anything that hasn’t been said before but I like a “gun for hire” & the idea of more player movement.
Much more fun than a 20m goal square or last touch out of bounds free kicks.

Even if we did manage to free up those funds, who could/would we have recruited?

Please don't say Tom Lynch either, he was Richmond bound and even if he did take the extra cash, would he even be worth it?

As for restructuring our player payments, we're already one of the best in the league in this area.

Anyway, each to their own I guess and everyone's entitled to an opinion.

 

[Gralin]

US workers have **** all rights compared to us and are treated pretty shit by a lot of employers

Its all about the money and everything else is lip service at best.

I hate how that is creeping in here, companies are pushing for us to become more like America because it benefits them.

Holding what American Organisations do up as the gold standard is a bad idea

 

[COKEandCOLA]

US workers have **** all rights compared to us and are treated pretty shit by a lot of employers

Its all about the money and everything else is lip service at best.

I hate how that is creeping in here, companies are pushing for us to become more like America because it benefits them.

Holding what American Organisations do up as the gold standard is a bad idea

Couldn't have said it any bloody better myself.

 

[Hawk Hawkins]

But, but, but...in a different sport from a different country with a different pay structure we could all have a different opinion about Grant Birchall.